Austin, martin, ragtopman, and anybody else who blows paint. What kind of guns do you use and how much $$$$ am I looking at for something comparable. I was reshooting the quarter on the 57 post,(the owner color sanded too much paint off, IDIOT!) And everything was blowing and laying pretty nice, and then, after pulling on the hose, one of my fingers must have accidently spun the spray pattern knob and you can guess the rest. I have a nice big run on the quarter. I really don't care for this gun anymore anyway and noticed it's hard to spray clear coat because it thicker and the gun tends to lay it with too much orange peel.
Do you guy's use different tips for the same gun? Or have different guns for different types of material?
I remember martinsr explaining the gun atomization and I don't think this gun has very much range if you know what I mean. It's a CP HVLP. (Central Pneumatic)

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Steve
67 SS 396,4-sp
67 RS 327,4-sp
72 RS 350/350
69 4X4 suburban 350,4-sp
73 3/4 ton 454/400
http://www.geocities.com/stevocamaro

I use SATA NR-95 HVLP gravity feed with a 1.3 mm set-up for sealer and base coat. I have another NR95, but set up with a 1.5mm for clear. I also have a Sata NR2000 with a 1.4mm for clear coat. I also have a Sata mini jet for touch-up and custom work. They are spendy at almost $500 each, (mini jet about $250) but they are the best gun I've ever used. They keep working great, and I use them on about 15 cars a week. We also have the sata fresh air set-ups in our booths.
If your spraying some of the newer high solids primers I would suggest getting a gun just for priming, the new primers can leave a residue in a gun that will not completely clean out without a tear down.
You can buy one gun, and buy the differant guts to switch it over, but for me its not the way to go. About $200 per nozzle set up. If you can find a jobber that deals with them you should be able to get a slightly lower price that what I mentioned. I live a half hour away from the US distributer of sata guns, but I get a better price through my paint jobber.
Austin www.satausa.com (http://www.satausa.com)

I have a SATA for my color and a DeVilbiss for my clear. The SATA has a worn out 1.5 and the clear gun has a 1.5 in it also. I like the DeVilbiss a bit better cause it can be torn apart abit more for cleaning.

You can spend some serious bucks on spray guns, a nice SATA can cost upwards to $500. And yes, there are different air caps and tips and stuff for different jobs. Have you tried sanding the flow indicator off and buffing it back out?

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67 Camaro SS Conv.
70 Challenger R/T Conv.

The SATA is a great gun, but there are many others and it really depends on what you are going to use it for and how often.

Believe it or not the SATA copies sold at Harbor Frieght for around $80.00 are not bad and for the money are a bargin.

For around $450.00 the Sharpe Platinum is a great gun, it atomizes super and it requires only 7.5 CFM (half of most guns) so if you have a marginal compressor you can get good results.

For primers Sharpe makes an American made "cheapie" called the Cobolt at about $150.00 they are a good gun. I have seen many people use them for color or clear, but they need a lot of air and don't atomize that well. And don't think because the primer is "thick" (read that "high solids") you need a monster gun for them. I have done tests with a Platinum 1.3 shooting a "national rule" urethane primer where the primer was faster to sand and yeilded a .1 mil thicker 3 coat application than a 1.7 tipped "primer gun". If you bomb on the product you are just loading the surface with solvent....when it finally flashes off it shrinks down. This goes for top coats as well.

What ever you do you want a small tip for the high solids products of today. 1.3 for base and clear, unless you are shooting multible panels or completes then 1.5 is better. Some guns and painters get by with the 1.5 with good results, I am talking in general, and the 1.3 is a "safe bet" for base and clears. Even for single stage urethanes, if you are not doing a lot of panels, the 1.3 is the way to go. It is a bit slower but you have more control and get a smoother finish.

The DeVilbiss GTI 2000 is another "high end" gun at about $425.00 that you would be happy with. To change tip size all you change is the tip, not the needle or air cap so you can afford to have all the tips you want. I got the GTI "Millennium" kit and it comes with a 1.3,1.4,1.5 tip, at around $450.00 is a deal.

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Fan of anything that is interesting and moves human beings.
1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
1948 Chevy PU with 401 Buick

Thanks for the replys. I understand what's going on a little better each time you guy's explain things to me.
Austin, blowing 15 cars a WEEK! I hope you have a GOOD respirator. http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif I notice your using a smaller tip size for thicker material also.

Ragtopman, what's the flow indicator? The tip, or the needle? That would open me up you think to say, a 1.5 or something?

Martin, I'm starting to understand the relationship of tip size, air pressure and atomazation of the different consistancies of material. If I'm understanding right, the thicker material would require a smaller tip for more thorough atomizing? I had thought that there was too much material coming out of the gun, even after adjustments were made, to allow it to lay smooth. Of course I played with air pressure and the amount of material flowing, and I was able to improve the way it laid, but it makes sense that if the tip were smaller, it would atomize better. Am I on the right track?
I didn't think I would need a very exspensive gun because like you said, how often would I use it. I've got 3 more cars to paint so I should spring for a decent gun and rid myself of some hassles. I'm assuming you guy's are talking about HVLP's right. I do have a siphon feed DeVilbiss I was thinking of using just for primers, and then another HVLP for base & clears. I could save myself ALOT of work cutting & buffing clears & enamels if it would lay smoother, so it's worth it to me. If I could lay down a clear so smooth that I hardly had to cut anything, then the time saved on just 1 car would be worth the cost of a nice gun to me. I think you guy's know what I mean. http://www.camaros.net/forum/biggrin.gif
I do like the sound of the millenium package you have martin, with all the tips and all.
I figure if I can afford a air operated tire machine I hardly ever use, I should spring for a good gun I'll probably use more often.
What $80.00 sata copy were you talking about also? Do you know the name of it? And what do you think about it's atomazation?


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Steve
67 SS 396,4-sp
67 RS 327,4-sp
72 RS 350/350
69 4X4 suburban 350,4-sp
73 3/4 ton 454/400
http://www.geocities.com/stevocamaro

[This message has been edited by stevo camaro (edited 12-11-2000).]

Martinsr, so nobody misunderstands including you, when I say to use a seperate gun for high solids primers, I never said that you need a monster tip to spray primer, or that it needs to be "bombed" on. What I'm saying is that todays primers do NOT clean out of a gun as easily as they used to, so residue from the primer will remain in the internals of the gun, if it's not tore down for cleaning. High solids primer is just that...high solids. If you take the primer I use mix it up 3 parts primer to 1 part hardener to .5 parts reducer....it will shrink LESS than the primers that are mixed 1 to 1, because there is less solvents in the primer "HIGH SOLIDS" when solvents evaporate, primer shrinks....less solents less shrinking. My shop has a sata nr95 w/1.4 tip we use for primer. So for the record, if you you use the same gun to paint your car that you used to prime it with...it might spit out primer residue left in the gun, and that sucks.
Stevo, yes, I use a air supplied respirator, but those 15 jobs vary in size some of them are only a fender or a bumper. The flow indicator ragtopman is talking about is the run in the 1/4. I call them "mil thickness guage" you can wetsand out runs and then buff them.
Austin

Austin, what pressure do you use at the gun with your Sata 2000 hvlp? Are they the same for your clear and base? What type product do you prefer and which do you stay away from? thanks

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69 rallye green X77 Z/28,1967 SS 396 Conv. 1974 c-10 454 swb

Austin, I was not refering to anything you said, if it seems that way I apologize. I clarified the "thicker" term because that is the way most non-pros look at it, and that is who I was responding to. Steve doesn't shoot every day as you do and I was just explaining to him what "high solids" means.
As for my explaination on "bombing" the primer, you never even said anything about how to apply or the tip you use, so I couldn't have been refering to your post.
I see A LOT of problems out there (I visit hundreds of shops a year) and I just like to point these simple things out so the non-pro doesn't start off on the wrong foot, he has enough to overcome working way to hard to get the job done already. That is why I mentioned it.
You sound like a guy who knows his stuff and I am sure I would be learning from you, sorry if I sounded like a I was getting personal, I wasn't. http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif
On cleaning the primer gun, if you are using a lacquer thinner (either by hand or in a gun washer) that can make it a lot harder, being the primer usually sits in the gun longer than paint and some can partially cure. Use a urethane reducer, in the gun washer you can mix one gallon urethane in with the four or five lacquer and this will help a lot. I know this is something that you may have tryed, but I don't know that, so I can only guess and tell you.
I know a shop that the guy has about 25 guns! He has them marked "silver", dark silver", "red","met red", "blue", "met blue" and so on, No kidding! That is taking a bit far, but a separate gun for primer, sealer, base coat, and clear is always the best way to go.

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Fan of anything that is interesting and moves human beings.
1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
1948 Chevy PU with 401 Buick

pipeman, I use about 30 at the gun regulator, which is about 13 at the fluid tip. As far as products I've been using PPG for the last 10 years (PPG Global for the past 3), so I really don't know alot about the other brands. Most companys have a pretty good product if you stay with a higher end line. I have friends that are very happy with the DuPont premier line as well as Sikkens. I would use a good urathane base clear system, with a good primer and sealer underneith it (don't try to save money on the primer, it's not worth it).
MARTINSR, I just thought I would clarify, because of the referal to my post. When I read your post I reolized many people don't know what high solids products are, and yes I jumped the gun and thought you misinterprided something I said. http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif
Austin

Austin, I did understand what you were saying about the thicker primer,or,(high solids, which is a term I've just learned thanks to you guy's. http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif ) It made sense to me. I can understand how the high solid primer wouldn't want to clean out of the gun very well. I think using a separate gun for priming is what I'll start doing.
I guess I didn't understand what ragtopman was refering to. I reread it and now I get it. http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif Duh! No I haven't tried to sand it yet, I used a fast reducer because of the temp. but I'm still letting it dry. I shot it sunday. It's probably dry enough, or cured, but it's been very cold here lately. Do you guy's think it's ready for sanding & buffing out yet? And how do you guy's use a mil thickness gauge?
Martin, thank you for your explainations. They are easy for me to understand the way you explain it. And it's information that helps me see the bigger picture.
I appreciate everyones responses. It's good to know there are proffesionals here to get good info. from. http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif
Thanks guy's, I'll be picking your brains again. AFTER you answer the questions from above. LOL http://www.camaros.net/forum/biggrin.gif

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Steve
67 SS 396,4-sp
67 RS 327,4-sp
72 RS 350/350
69 4X4 suburban 350,4-sp
73 3/4 ton 454/400
http://www.geocities.com/stevocamaro

Stevo, You should be able to sand and buff on it by now. What type of paint did you use? How cold was it when you painted it? Did you have heat where you painted it?
To sand runs I like to use a paint stick. Trim it down to the width of the sandpaper, then wrap the paper around it. Works good.
A mil thickness guage just tells you how much material is on the car. Not very helpfull unless you checked it before you started painting (it measures everything inbetween the metal and the last coat of paint or clear). When your all done with a paint job, if done properly you will have about 4.5-5.0 mils of material (This is sealer, basecoat, and clearcoat).

Steve Camaro, If your looking for the Sata 2000 spray guns 1.4mm Sat 61168. Reg. 489.00 sell for 375.00
Sharpe colbalt 135.00.
I have a 100 page cataloge with disc. prices.
Send me and e-mail and I'll send a book out to you.
With the spray guns in the book you need to send me the part number and I'll give you a special price.
I carry Sharpe,Sata,Devilbiss,Astro.
let me know.

Happy Holidays, Bob

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69 Coupe LeMans-Blue
Frame-Off Resto, ZZ-502/502 Crate, A/C, Griffin Rad., March Serpintine Sys., 2800 Stall with Hughes T-400, Currie 9" with 370 Gears.
www.geocities.com/mobiletools1/ (http://www.geocities.com/mobiletools1/)

Austin, the paint is single stage acrylic enamel PPG. 8 parts color, 6 parts reducer, and 1 part hardner. I used a cold temp. (very fast reducer) and the temp of the shop when I sprayed was about 40-45 degrees. I like the stir stick idea for sanding the run. I have 1000 wet dry, and 1500 and 2000. If I sand through this time I'll be sooo pissed. My friend, the owner of the 57 post, wants to have the car in redding for glass & interior by the end of the month. I feel like he's pushing me and I don't like it. The whole reason for reshooting is the owners impatience, so he's going to "help" me color sand, and that's when he went too far with the paper because he's clueless. The car HAS to be cut & buffed first because the stainless needs to be hung BEFORE the interior goes in. I can't wait until this car is gone. Then the stripping of the 72 RS body begins. http://www.camaros.net/forum/eek.gif and another paint job! http://www.camaros.net/forum/biggrin.gif Glad you guy's are here.

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Steve
67 SS 396,4-sp
67 RS 327,4-sp
72 RS 350/350
69 4X4 suburban 350,4-sp
73 3/4 ton 454/400
http://www.geocities.com/stevocamaro

I haven't sprayed in that low of temp for a long time. You will just have to start to wetsand it alittle and see if the sandpaper starts to drag or plug up, if it doesn't you should be fine. I would start with the 1000, but try to hit onlt the run. Once it looks like it getting close, jump up to 1500.
We did a '57 this summer for hail damage...lots of chrome, the owner removed it himself before it came to our shop to save some $$$. I'll try to e-mail you a couple of pictures then you can see where I paint.
Austin