sounds to good to be true....and if it is true i believe us gear heads can make this at home for less$$$:confused:

http://www.fuel-rebel.com/?OVRAW=gas%20alternatives&OVKEY=type%20of%20alternative%20fuel&OVMTC=advanced&OVADID=10077220521&OVKWID=109461914021

I look at the site and it must be, there is no such thing as free energy or perpetual motion machines. Thats not to say someday that cars wont run on water but the technology is not there yet.

The Ball jar picture is a bit scary. If I told my wife I needed one of her canning jars so I could convert the Camaro to run on water, she would try to slap some sense into me.

Maybe it’s like biodiesel, but your exhaust would smell like orange marmalade instead of french fries!

Notice in the testamonials, the improvements in MPG are way smaller then in the intro. A 10 pecent fluctuation is easily fudged. Thats not to say Hydrogen isn't the future..just not with this POS.

well i found this one on ebay....http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HYDROGEN-GENERATOR-GAS-HYBRID-ALTERNATIVE-FUEL_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ38634QQihZ003QQite mZ130224637917QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW



and there is alot of videos on you tube saying it does work:confused:

the system doesnt run strictly off water. from what ive read its similar to nitrous. it a fuel additive. plus the water has baking soda added to it.
YouTube - Water fuel .

YouTube - 60 MPG Escort Wagon

also any increase is worth having.....:yes:

while it is possible to make your car run off of hydrogen, it takes far greater energy to produce it then you can get out of it.

you need lots of electricity to produce the hydrogen, the fuel savings that you would have replacing it with the hydrogen would not exceed the power needed to recharge the battery. your alternator would not be able to keep up with the draining unless you got a larger amp alternator. in which case you would be drawing more power from your engine.

also another thing to think about, your taking all this power away from the engine with the alternator, and your still only producing minimal amounts of hydrogen.

another side note for if you would try it, is controlling how much gas and hydrogen your are putting in. you may be pumping the same amount of gas into the engine and just pushing extra hydrogen in.

sounds to good to be true....and if it is true i believe us gear heads can make this at home for less$$$:confused:

http://www.fuel-rebel.com/?OVRAW=gas%20alternatives&OVKEY=type%20of%20alternative%20fuel&OVMTC=advanced&OVADID=10077220521&OVKWID=109461914021

You might as well flush $97 down the toilet.

This is nothing new, been around for years and does work for sure.

I installed water injection on my truck and then built a circuit to give the ECU a false reading from the O2 sensor so it would cut back fuel....worked fine. Also cobbled up a little hydrogen generator...worked fine and got better MPG. In the end I just bought a civic that gets thirty five to forty MPG as my pickup truck is a pig on gas, end of story. I've never really thought about trying to cobble up some junk to improve mileage on the civic, I guess thirty five to forty MPG is good enough. If I did want to improve the MPG on the civic, water injection and hydrogen would be something worthwhile....it's just not that much fun wrenching on new cars.


P.S. Rather than buying the plans, just buy a kit:

http://stores.homestead.com/hydrogengarage/Detail.bok?no=2

Check out this link for a Water powered car.

http://www.runyourcarwithwater.com/?hop=1373car

No that cant be right. Its too simple. If it worked the automakers would have it built in already. It would be a huge selling point. Double gas milage, cmon.

It works....I've done it. Try it yourself, cobble up some contraption and see for yourself it doesn't cost much to buy the parts. A couple of tips though....

You won't save anything unless you get the ECU to reduce the amount of fuel being injected. To get the motor to run lean without excessive heat you either have to inject something to cool it (water) or convert the liquid gasoline to vapor (unstable). Once you get the motor to run lean and cool, you can then introduce additional fuel such as hydrogen and trick the ECU to reduce the amount of gasoline even further. Another thing that saves fuel is pre heating the gasoline....allows it to vaporize quicker and thus uses less fuel. You have to be careful so as not to vapor lock though.

http://i1.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/e5/a4/be97_1.JPG

so i cant simply install this and work? i have to do something with my ECU? WTH. btw. i have a 2003 dodge ram that gets 13mpg. anything will help:D

Another thing that saves fuel is pre heating the gasoline....allows it to vaporize quicker and thus uses less fuel. You have to be careful so as not to vapor lock though.

AKA Smokey Yunick Vapor engine.

Check this out http://www.gafiero.org/smokey.asp

so i cant simply install this and work? i have to do something with my ECU? WTH. btw. i have a 2003 dodge ram that gets 13mpg. anything will help:D

That was my "test" vehicle...2000 dodge ram. Even though I achieved a 33% increase in MPG it was still crappy gas mileage....hence the civic! Less work and more MPG, LOL!


AKA Smokey Yunick Vapor engine.

Check this out http://www.gafiero.org/smokey.asp

Absolutely!!! Vapor equals waaaay better MPG, cooler combustion chambers and less emissions as everything is used for power not for cooling with the "extra" sent to burn up in the exhaust pipe.

Paul, most people that know you wonder where you get all the extra time to work on your experiments. Do you not sleep?

So how is the time machine coming along?

check this one out http://www.runyourcarwithwater.com/?hop=sipboy3000&gclid=CL62-ebJl5ICFQKwPAodpgM6OQ

Look here

http://www.efuel100.com/default.aspx

I have a fellow female employee who's hubby installed HHO on her 4Runner.

Her thoughts are the engine runs smoother and more power with less pedal. I would say she is alittle surprised at the way the 4Runner runs. She has a third tank to run yet to get a good mileage indicator.

AKA Smokey Yunick Vapor engine.

Check this out http://www.gafiero.org/smokey.asp
Thanks for sharing that link on old Smokey...knew the guy was really clever, but not to that degree. He was ahead of his time, eh?

capt

:oim not sure what to do....so many choices. i want to try something....

I have a fellow female employee who's hubby installed HHO on her 4Runner.

Her thoughts are the engine runs smoother and more power with less pedal. I would say she is a little surprised at the way the 4Runner runs. She has a third tank to run yet to get a good mileage indicator.

That was my impression as well....it wasn't until I got the ECU to cut back fuel that I started seeing better mileage though.


:o im not sure what to do....so many choices. i want to try something....

There's a bunch of info available, just read through it, understand it and make a plan....then get to wrenching!


There are two things that I had to totally figure out on my own that are now available. One is a water injection setup. I spent countless hours in the garage cobbling up a water injection setup using a sure flow 100 PSI pump, some hose, a 12v solenoid, mist nozzles from McMaster Carr and rigging up the circuitry to control it using a 555 timer and tying that into the throttle position sensor. I didn't want water injected at idle and I wanted the "pulse" to get progressively faster as I opened the throttle. I have no engineering or electrical experience so I had to figure out all of this junk on my own. Because of my novice abilities I let the "magic smoke" out of many, many electrical components until I got it, LOL. It did eventually work and the system is still operating on my pickup to this day. The other day I saw these products and thought that they were superior to the junk that I cobbled up:

http://www.snowperformance.net/product.php?pk=31

http://www.snowperformance.net/product.php?pk=7


The other thing that I had to figure out is now called an EFIE. It allows the user to alter the O2 voltage signal to the ECU. Again, novice here, so countless electrical components were sacrificed until I got it right but now they are all over. Search for EFIE in google:

http://www.fuelsaver-mpg.com/doc/EfieDescribed.html

or even YouTube:

YouTube - 012 EFIE Installation

It works....I've done it. Try it yourself, cobble up some contraption and see for yourself it doesn't cost much to buy the parts. A couple of tips though....


I know water injection has been around for a good long while. but if this actually improves gas milage wouldnt it be in the best interest of the automakers to include it on modern cars?

Well, I might have flunked chemistry in High School, but doesn't the statement below sound a little hokey? What's this gas called HHO? Isn't that just another way of saying H2O?

We have developed devices that use a little electricity out of your car's battery, to separate water into a gas called HHO (2 Hydrogen + 1 Oxygen).

I know water injection has been around for a good long while. but if this actually improves gas milage wouldnt it be in the best interest of the automakers to include it on modern cars?

I'm pretty much certain that for the last forty years many, many fuel saving ideas, inventions, etc have been suppressed. Oil money pretty much rules the planet. Now as gas prices get sooo high and the WWW gets information out there we may actually see a change. I mean honestly if Smokey could build a car how many years ago that got 50 MPG....how much further along would we be now if that technology had been refined???

I think that JohnZ posted something a while back that there was a GM car a long time ago that had water injection...but for the average car owner pumping gasoline is as far as they'll go.


Well, I might have flunked chemistry in High School, but doesn't the statement below sound a little hokey? What's this gas called HHO? Isn't that just another way of saying H2O?

We have developed devices that use a little electricity out of your car's battery, to separate water into a gas called HHO (2 Hydrogen + 1 Oxygen).

H2O is not the same as HHO. Electricity added to water causes the hydrogen and oxygen to split apart and become gas.



P.S. I think that I saw that Mercedes has built a car to run on Hydrogen or Gasoline (YouTube video with Jay Leno driving it??). They don't generate the hydrogen on board, but add a separate tank to store it. When burning hydrogen in an internal combustion motor the by product is water.


P.P.S. If I knew how this guy did it, this is something I would do but I can't figure it out.....

YouTube - Water Car ... Daniel Dingel

Sounds like 2 different methods in this thread.

Water injection

Holley made a water injection kit back in the 80's, nothing new tech wise. Go back to WW II airplanes and they used the technology on them.

Hydrogen generators/HHO/Brown's Gas

You cannot sell HHO because you cannot bottle it and ship it, it may explode. It is real and cannot be stored because it is the product of electrolysing water. H2O goes into H2 and O2. This is the optimum explosive mistures. Pound for pound far more explosive than TNT or dynamite, but with a lower velocity of detonation.

People generate it locally and the machinery has copper mess flame arresting built in to stop flash backs and it will contain the few cubic inches of the max stored gas.

Professionals do not use it as it costs a lot more than oxy acetylene or oxy propane.

They make torches/welders that use this gas, but as far as feasability in an automitive application... My fear is someone not understanding the principles and thinking bigger is better and try to store to much of the gas, and have an explosion, etc... Misuse due to ignorance and home made mason jars mixed with hyrdogen gases is a candidate for the evening news.

The only bolt on gadget for increasing mpg that I know of that works is the fitch fuel catalyst, and it does not increase the mpg more than 2-3 mpg. To clarify this item is a fuel cleaner that kills the bacteria, etc... and in turn raises the octane of gas up a bit. The catalyst creates a higher octane gas that gets better mpg, helps the car run cleaner, etc... I was sceptical when I heard of it 2 years ago, but when I found out from a friend who is a fleet mechanic for the big local taxi co. and that they use it, and he has it on his cars... I figured I would try it our on my grand cherokee. I can now run 87 gas and instead of my 15-16mpg in the city I get 18-19 on the same 87 octane gas.

If all the tinkering mechanics on this board got together and worked on it, I am sure you all could come up with a revolutionary new engine that got fantastic gas mileage and horsepower...there are some smart people on here...

If all the tinkering mechanics on this board got together and worked on it, I am sure you all could come up with a revolutionary new engine that got fantastic gas mileage and horsepower...there are some smart people on here...

And then someone from Big Oil would be knocking on the door and buying it for a ridiculous price that you couldn't turn down. Then it would never be seen again.;)

And then someone from Big Oil would be knocking on the door and buying it for a ridiculous price that you couldn't turn down. My grandchildren wouldn't have to work.

No need to build an alternitive engine, one already exists, the bourke engine. the Bourke 400 was actually designed and built under contract with American Motors Corporation by Russell Bourke and Melvin Vaux.

After it had been test run for about 15 minutes or so as per contract, AMC took it away from Russell and never put it to use as they just couldn't get their heads wrapped around it's operation and tried to make it run like a rich 15:1 a/f stoichiometric engine when it was designed and ran fine with ultra lean air fuel ratio's.

The 400 4 cylinder engine was only static estimated @ 200 HP and 500 Ft. Lb. torque at 2000 RPM!

Your talking about an engine that could/may be the replacement to the modern engine is oil issues continue down the current path. I think I seen they rated it at 300% efficiency over todays engine and pushing 2.5 hp per cubic inch.

No need to build an alternitive engine, one already exists, the bourke engine. the Bourke 400 was actually designed and built under contract with American Motors Corporation by Russell Bourke and Melvin Vaux.

After it had been test run for about 15 minutes or so as per contract, AMC took it away from Russell and never put it to use as they just couldn't get their heads wrapped around it's operation and tried to make it run like a rich 15:1 a/f stoichiometric engine when it was designed and ran fine with ultra lean air fuel ratio's.

The 400 4 cylinder engine was only static estimated @ 200 HP and 500 Ft. Lb. torque at 2000 RPM!

Your talking about an engine that could/may be the replacement to the modern engine is oil issues continue down the current path. I think I seen they rated it at 300% efficiency over todays engine and pushing 2.5 hp per cubic inch.

And does Chrysler now own this ?? Why wouldn't they have put it to use by now ? Seems they could be putting the rest of the industry out of business with an engine that efficient.

No its not owned by any car maker, http://bourkeengine.net/home.htm you can see the engines running etc...

An update: Like I stated earlier post, fellow employee has the injection system installed on her 2003 4Runner.

Her mileage went from 17 mpg to 27 mpg with one jar. Two jars and mpg is at 30 mpg.
Her hubby installed one on his 2006 F250 Diesel - mpg from 10 to 18 mpg.

Just thought I'd share.

WOW!! over $ 600 Million in R&D development money and every OEM missed the "Water Bottle" HA h=HA HA HA HA come on :noway::noway::noway::noway::noway::noway::noway:: noway::noway:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190225503186&_trksid=p2759.l1259

how about this one guys?:D

I call BS on any claims it works. Gotta prove it to me, I am sorry but its old technology that has been disproven 100's of times. In this application the energy burned to generate the gas is greater than the amount of gas generated.

Perhaps I need to go scour the patent office for old inventions and market it as a gas saver while people are in a frenzy over gas prices.... oh wait thats what these guys did!

An update: Like I stated earlier post, fellow employee has the injection system installed on her 2003 4Runner.

Her mileage went from 17 mpg to 27 mpg with one jar. Two jars and mpg is at 30 mpg.
Her hubby installed one on his 2006 F250 Diesel - mpg from 10 to 18 mpg.

Just thought I'd share.


Very nice!! :thumbsup:

I may have to reinstall my old setup as I just paid 3.97 per gallon for gas, ugggghhh!!! I was wondering if you could ask your co-worker if they have any issues with the unit getting hot? I think that my old setup had too few plates and would run a bit hot, was wondering if adding more plates would cool it down a little???

The units have a coil heater.

yea but how about this electronic thingie? its suppose to hook up to the map sensor