Anyone care to comment on the advantages and especially the disadvantages of adding a nitrous system ?

68, 350
Auto, 3.23:1

NOS is a funny thing. Used right and it is great. Used with a half a$$'d system and its a nightmare. NOS creates plenty of power, but also creates heat. Without extra fuel to "cool" this heat, things start to melt, like pistons! Make sure you have a GOOD electric fuel pump and pressure regulator. No Holley blue pumps! Are you going to trust a couple grand motor to a $70 fuel pump? I would also wire a fuel pressure switch into my regulator. If fuel pressue is, or drops, below 5 psi, it will cut the NOS off. This helps save melted mills. If you run an automatic, make sure your convertor is of the "anti-balloning" type. If not, it will swell and fail, possibly taking the trans with it. Now that I have told you the bad, there is a good side as well. The power is only when you need it. I have seen some pretty mild NOS cam'd motor the picked up 2 seconds on the juice. My friend has a 87 Z-28 with a 383. It runs 12.70's on motor with a Comp NOS cam. A 200 shot, drops him into the 10's. Not too shabby.

------------------
Mark
1992 Firebird 355/Six Speed
1991 RS 350 / 700-R4
1987 Toyota Pickup 383 / 500 + HP 10.963 @ 119.95 Slicks / 11.997 @ 114.23 Radials
http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/~racer383/

Mark is right. Nitrous is tons of fun- just make sure you build a good fuel system. Its pretty easy to lean out a motor to the point of meltdown without enough fuel- just ask all the 5.0 Mustang boys! LOL
A lot of people say it's cheating, but if you can build a 10 or 11 second mild mannered daily driver with NOS, what's wrong with that? Have fun! Pete

Like the guys said , Nitrous is great as long as you have a good fuel system. After destroying a motor ten years ago with my first nitrous system, I use a dedicated fuel delivery system for the nitrous. Seperate pump, regulator, and hobbs switch as Mark described. Overkill, yes.

Another important thing is ignition. You need a hot ignition system to ignite the extra fuel. Also most people recommend taking out 2 degrees timing for every 100hp. I always take out more than recommended and work my way back up.

Nitrous done right is great. Nitrous done wrong will get you eight matching ashtrays will holes melted in them.

Stephen



------------------
67 RS/SS 350 700R4
69 SS clone unfinished
72 454 Weekend Racer

Never personally had nitrous in any of my cars. I think the biggest reason why is a con, to me its fake because its temporary. Bottle runs out and your done. I want to be able to use the power available at any time. If I want to make ten passes in a row with nitrous can I? Probably not because I will run out. Racing with it is fine and I don't consider it cheating as some do. But I do consider it fake because its not always there like a blower or supercharger where your not going to run out of it and be empty and slow. To me, for the track great, for the street car its fake and temporary. On the street ok you will beat me a couple times then your out and your all done, take your fake empty power and go home. No offense to nitrous users but I consider it track only and useless in the real world

Honestly, I would love to have a supercharger. Power is there all the time, but until I win the lotto I can't afford it.

Nitrous, the poor man's supercharger.
Stephen

------------------
67 RS/SS 350 700R4
69 SS clone unfinished
72 454 Weekend Racer

68SS,

If your gas runs out you're done to!!! NOS is just another temporary fuel source just like gasoline. There's nothing at all FAKE about it!!! No one has mentioned it but compared to other power adders, NOS is almost instaneous and that's why it can becomes additive. Both supercharging and turbocharger are both rpm dependent since their power is normally reperesented as a % increase over whatever the engine produces at the time the power output is measured.

So a 40% increase @ 2500 RPM on a motor that unaspirated produces 250HP is an additional 100HP where as if the car was on juice with a 200HP shot, the power @ 2500 would be 450HP. Now what would yopu rather have???? 350HP @ 2500 or 450HP @ 2500????? I know, this is an oversimplification but that's how it works in a nut shell.

As far as Nitrous being the poor man's supercharger, nothing could be further from the truth. While the INITIAL investment of course is less (less than a 1,000 with all the electronic goodies), the on-going cost is pretty substansial. NOS down here is @ 2.50 a pound so if you use a couple of 10 pound bottles a week, that's 200.00 a month FOREVER!!!

Addicted to NOS. What a BLAST!!!



[This message has been edited by sr71bb (edited 10-05-2000).]

SR71BB, Your right if my gas runs out I'm done. But I can go a whole lot farther on a tank of gas than a bottle of nitrous and nitrous is useless without gas. Gas doesn't need nitrous. Your right about the supercharger and turbocharger being rpm dependent but when I race my car isn't idling. I think I have enough rpm's when racing that it doesn't matter. I will give you the fact about the nitrous being a instant 200 hp (depending on the system) while the supercharger and such is a percentage. Nitrous has the advantage there. Also agree with you about nitrous being expensive. However I still consider it fake because its not always there. If i want to go to the salt flats and beat on my car all day then I better have a huge wallet and a bunch of bottles of nitrous. Supercharger I just go beat on my car and drive home, no trunk full of empty bottles I have to get refilled or anything. I just consider the supercharger to require much less maintenance, and less time involved over the course of use. I'm not against nitrous but just don't think highly of it due to the attention it requires. I don't have to worry about running out of supercharger and getting it refilled all the time. Just my opinion. Like I said I'm not against it but when someone asks about the pros and cons I have to give my cons reply about it not always being there. That is the one major thing that will always keep me from using or recommending it. If the car in question was track only, then woohoo add as much nitrous as possible. If its a street car too, then I would say no way. Its not that I disagree with what you said, I just consider nitrous to be for a dedicated race car only. Again only my opinion which I am giving in response to the pros and cons original question. Just I'm con and your pro, no big deal

Normally, I find those who think NOS is cheating, have never used it. Once you have, I think you will agree it is a great source of HP. Bottom line though is that it takes just as much time and money to build a blower motor as it does to build a spray motor. Before I get hammered here, let me explain. A NOS motor suffers from the same problems as a blower motor. Higher cylinder and higher cylinder pressures, require better rings, pistons and head gaskets to be done right and lasr. Yes you can hammer a stock motor, but that is a little bit foolish. The upside is that NOS will not put a constant strain on the engine, only when you need it, unlike a blower. Yes you have to fill the bottle, but I can make 6 full passes on one 20 pound bottle. How many runs do you make at your local track each night?

My car will run high 10's on motor. I also have a 100 shot setup for those "just in case" street races. If I spin, I still have a chance to catch up. If I am under powered, than I still can put up a good fight. Nothing like hanging with a 10.50 car and making him wonder if something is wrong.

Anyway, back to the point. NOS is power. If you like it, use it. If you don't, great. Just don't tell me I am cheating. How many people still "ice bag" their intakes to get every last HP at the track. What about removing the air cleaner or putting on shorter belts. Can you do that on the street?



------------------
Mark
1992 Firebird 355/Six Speed
1991 RS 350 / 700-R4
1987 Toyota Pickup 383 / 500 + HP 10.963 @ 119.95 Slicks / 11.997 @ 114.23 Radials
http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/~racer383/

I do agree that NOS is not for MOST people. I wouldn't even reccomend it in most cases because you have to be willing to pay the price CONTINUOUSLY. MOST people DO NOT know how to set it up properly and that's where the problem is. If your motor breaks it is NOT because of NOS, it's because something was not set up properly.

A traditional blower has a considerable amount of maintenance like blower belts, internal gear drives wearing out and such. Other than changing filters at regular intervals NOS has none of that.

I never knew that there was a set of rules for street racing anyway so how can you be cheating with NOS????

squarles,

You comment made me laugh, I have a set of those ash trays! http://www.camaros.net/forum/wink.gif



------------------
Mark
1992 Firebird 355/Six Speed
1991 RS 350 / 700-R4
1987 Toyota Pickup 383 / 500 + HP 10.963 @ 119.95 Slicks / 11.997 @ 114.23 Radials
http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/~racer383/

I'll add another quick comment if I may- one of the nice things about NOS is that you not only have an additional 200 HP (or whatever the HP of your system happens to be), but you can control WHEN that 200 HP comes in. Traction at the strip is usually good, but if you're playing on the street it ain't always there. If you try feathering your blown 500 HP car out of the hole 'cause you can't hook up, chances are you've lost! With NOS you come out hard on motor then spray it once you're hooked up. I'm not advocating street racing here, I'm just pointing out my experience with it.
Later- Pete
P.S.- If I won the lotto I would have a polished 6-71 stickin' out of the hood too- WITH nitrous plumbed into the bugcatcher!

Just my .02 as the current owner of a blower car and a former owner of a nitrous car.

Yes, it was fun running nitrous, but as 68SS pointed out, you can burn a lot of N20 real fast. My brother and I used to burn up a 10 lb bottle every Friday night while cruising and street racing.

What happens when that 11 second car pulls up to you at a stop light late at night on the way home and you have an empty bottle?

This scenario happened to me more than once. You have to drive slowly away like a kicked dog because you know you can't win without the bottle.

That is why I chose to build a blower motor. In the long run - and sr71bb agreed - nitrous is JUST AS EXPENSIVE as a blower. I wanted a power adder that would be available 24/7/365.

This is my personal experience and opinion.

------------------
Hugger Orange & white 69 Camaro with supercharged 350, Tremec TKO, and 3.73 12-bolt

See my website updated 9/01/00 at:

www.geocities.com/gheatly (http://www.geocities.com/gheatly)

gheatly, when that 11 second car pull up and my bottle is flat, I still beat, just not as bad. My car runs a decent number on motor. My bottle is just a play toy. I comes in real handy because I like to race bikes and I need the extra help with some of the new ones.

I will a agree a 13 second bottle fed car that runs 15's on motor is still a 15 second car. It is still fun and thats what it is all about. I also will go to a blower one of these days. I like the idea of a 671 sticking through the hood.

------------------
Mark
1992 Firebird 355/Six Speed
1991 RS 350 / 700-R4
1987 Toyota Pickup 383 / 500 + HP 10.963 @ 119.95 Slicks / 11.997 @ 114.23 Radials
http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/~racer383/

OK guys I have to say something here- and I hope I don't **** anyone off 'cause thats certainly not my intent. I understand what some of you are saying as far as when the bottle is empty the fun is over, but thats a weak argument against nitrous. I'm not the great defender of nitrous or anything, but for someone on a budget, like myself, who cant afford a blower or a 10 second stroker motor, NOTHING beats the bang-for-buck of nitrous. Yes, you have to use your head and not put a 500 HP kit on a 150,000 mile motor. Yes, you have to invest in a decent fuel system- which you should have anyway with or without NOS. Yes, you have to show restraint and not spray it everytime some pinhead in a 5.0 pulls up alongside you. But for all that, my used 250 HP swapmeet kit and my resonably priced fuel system let me have a car with the potential of being a real player. For a whole lot less than a blower motor would cost. The average blower kit costs HALF of what I have in my whole car. Just my .02- no hard feelings! Pete

Like I posted once before.

Poked, Stroked and Blown, if thats not enough try a little Sqeeze. How fast do you want to go???

My friend in his 5.0 11+ ride taught me respect for it. And its only problem is that you just can't cheaply pack around 400 miles worth to match a tank of gas. pdq67

Mark,

A little more background...

Mopars were really big in my town growing up. Most of them were powered by 383s and 440s. I had a 64 Chevy with a modified 300hp 327. With my 150 HP nitrous kit, I could run with any of these guys. I remember one 440 that looked real impressive with a tunnel ram and 2 x 4 bbls sticking out of the hood. I could beat it... but only with nitrous.

This is where I would agree with Pete that nitrous will make a smaller (and cheaper) motor act like a bigger motor. The problem is that when your car gets a reputation (remember, this was in high school), you can't afford to lose a race because you don't have any nitrous in the bottle. That was my point about a blower. It's always there and the additional power is always available.

------------------
Hugger Orange & white 69 Camaro with supercharged 350, Tremec TKO, and 3.73 12-bolt

See my website updated 9/01/00 at:

www.geocities.com/gheatly (http://www.geocities.com/gheatly)

If you take a pretty stout motor, Let's say one with around 450HP and you add 150HP juice and you can hook up with all that power on the street with street tires, you are going to have a combination that is almost unbeatable and FUN FUN FUN as the Beach Boys would say.

Don't get me wrong I LIKE superchargers. ATI's newewst centrifical is completely self-
lubricated is just awesome IMO.

The point of all this is that if you are wanting from a STANDING start to get from point A to Point B over a short distance, NOTHING compares to nitrous.

I always judge things on the "G" factor, the more "G's" I can pull due to either acceleration or handling the more fun I have (definition of adrenaline junky!!!). On a scale of 1-10, I would give the juice a score of 9 and supercharging a 7-8.

I thinking of doing a blown & juiced combination as some of you guys have mentioned just to see how much fun that may be!!!

sr71bb,

I read an article where a guy put the nitros in the air scroll of a turbocharger, and what a combo it was.

His explanation for doing this was to better mix everything together and to use the depressurization of the nitros's incoming pressure to help cool and push the scrollwheel.

They showed a picture of the scrollwheel and you could see where it was cleaner where the nitros had struck it in liquid form before vaporizing. It appeared to not hurt the wheel.
This might help a centrifical charger like you're talking about. pdq67

PDQ67,

I think I rememeber that article. I think he used a very small shot of nitrous (I beleive 50HP shot) to help cool the intake charge. If you used NOS this way, it would help QUICKLY get you into the rpm range that the most huffers start to really work (2500-3000RPM). Yeah, yeah, That's the ticket!!!

Good point PDQ!!!

How fun to see such a large group agree on something as controversial as nitrous.
As some of you know iīm a BIG nitrous player over here in europe.
Iīll throw the bottle at almost everything http://www.camaros.net/forum/biggrin.gif

I agree with most of whatīs been said.
Used right nitrous is a tremendous power adder,nuthin else even comes close.
Having had numerous turbo cars aso,i have to say that it just isnīt comparable on the same day.
When you hit the button itīs just there!

This summer iīve campaigned my newest add to the collection-a 69 pro streeter-and to be honest without the bottle the car is a sitting duck..
With tho..
I mean..
1740kg.
0,06 over 350
cast crank
peened pinks
11:1 TRW,s
Vastly ported 492;s
Melling mech cam of 240 @ 108
A 4779 on a team G,and a set of 2" primary hedders.
Car will turn 7,91 in the eight mile sans and 7,31 with.
Thatīs fair in my book.
See..have ta have in mind that i use this car every day.
But!
Season is over,and the lowly 350 is out http://www.camaros.net/forum/biggrin.gif
Itīs 434 time http://www.camaros.net/forum/biggrin.gif http://www.camaros.net/forum/biggrin.gif http://www.camaros.net/forum/biggrin.gif
BRC 4340 crank
Crower 6" billets
Bowtie 18deg block
Pontiac super duty heads and intake-ported
Jesel camdrive and rockers
Ross pistons
Aso aso aso.
And...juice http://www.camaros.net/forum/biggrin.gif
1000hp smallblock..here i come http://www.camaros.net/forum/biggrin.gif

------------------
DVC-2000.Racing
482 cubes of fogger injected thunder in a 71 z.
racing@mbox303.swipnet.se (http://racing@mbox303.swipnet.se)

http://stdmk.excelland.com/boras2000/boras2000-62.jpg
Thatīs me on the right btw.. http://www.camaros.net/forum/wink.gif
------------------
DVC-2000.Racing
482 cubes of fogger injected thunder in a 71 z.
racing@mbox303.swipnet.se (http://racing@mbox303.swipnet.se)

[This message has been edited by Racing (edited 10-08-2000).]

Great PIC racing but it looks like both you boys were sleeping at the lights!!! I don't see tire smoke or weight transfer happening yet although you both broke the beams. What was the reaction time on this run????? It looks like you got the jump on the 68, right???

[This message has been edited by sr71bb (edited 10-08-2000).]

Those lucky enough to have intercoolers, can use a little NOS. A quick spray of just the intercooler will give a nice cool air charge to the motor. Best of all, one bottle will last a while this way and you can do it anytime, unlike icing your intake.

One more thing I would like to add to the NOS thing. You have to be "smart" when using it. I have a great example to "stupid" from some street racing we did here this weekend. I had a race with a Muskrat. 351 powered on NOS. Owner wanted to make sure the NOS was purged "properly", he proceded to free wheel the motor while hitting the button. We are talking a good 10-12 free revs. I thought, great, we will sweep up the pieces and I won't have to race him. Well, for some reason, it stayed in one piece and we did run. He lost. He wanted a repeat, so we staged again. This time, he purged with the NOS purge kit and not the free wheel method. Why had he not done that before???? Anyway, my friend flagged and I let him leave first. We all knew when he hit the NOS, because instead of spraying in to the motor, the white mist shot straight up the windshield. Seems it was still on purge!

------------------
Mark
1992 Firebird 355/Six Speed
1991 RS 350 / 700-R4
1987 Toyota Pickup 383 / 500 + HP 10.963 @ 119.95 Slicks / 11.997 @ 114.23 Radials http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/~racer383/

[This message has been edited by Mark W. Winning (edited 10-09-2000).]

As Homer Simpson would say- DOOHHH!!!

I got a question since I don't know much about Nitros use.

What is the upwards limit on a studded two bolt main big block like my 496 if I get the urge to "over-power" it with gas??? It has ross low dome forged pistons in it and built 3/8" truck rods because I'm not going to rev it past 5500 - 5750 rpm.

If I don't lean it out and fry a piston, how much will she stand before "driving" the crank out the bottom of the block??? 300, 400, 500, 600 extra horses on gas??? I'm expecting 550 hp as is. pdq67

PDQ,

Interesting Question!!! I assume your car is street driven and what that in mind, we will need to look a couple of different issues.

One, with your starting point of 550HP, I would not juice the motor more than 150. Why??? Well, with a base with NOS of 700HP, your rear wheel HP will be in the area of 546HP (700 x 78%). With street tires and a non-ladder bar suspension, the 546 is probably the MOST HP you will be able to get to the ground efficiently.

Two, juicing puts the most amout of stress on your pistons and rings and on the sealing area around the pistons. That is why in higher appliactions of NOS (say 300HP and up) it is reccomended that you use studs instead of head bolts and that you at least consider O-ringing around the piston bores.

At the 300HP level you would also have to look at something besides the standard rod arrangement. It would be marginal, but you could still PROBABLY get by with the two bolt studded mains at this level but NO HIGHER.

In the past, to answer these questions for myself, I have simply kept pushing the motor till it breaks which is a very EXPENSIVE learning experience!!!