This is what's wrong with our hobby in a nutshell:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___68-CAMARO-CONVERTIBLE-RED-RED-VERY-SOLID-STOCK-DRIVER_W0QQitemZ280238195713QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20Tru cksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item280238195713&_trksid=p3756.m14.l1308

This car was posted for sale on this site two months ago for $17,900. (There was a lengthy discussion about the dealer who sold it to two TC'ers at once.) This guy subsequently sold it, and now we have Mr. Internet Dealer flipping it for a 38% profit margin.

Someone please stop the madness...

Yeah that is quite a mark-up. Goes on all the time though, it's how classic car dealers make their living. There's probably a similar story behind every classic car on their lot. It is kind of sad to see these cars used as bait, being bought/sold from dealer to dealer. Needs a good home! I was interested in this car but it's priced out of my range!

so dealers aren't allowed to make money? last I heard they were businesses, that's kinda the point. Regardless of how they got the vehicle, it looks like a very honest description for a very nice car.

Those MotoExotica folks seem to be consigners, so the car may still be in Arizona.

Let's see, take a car that had some trouble selling but might have sold for almost $18K, then try to consign it for almost $7K more on ebay, so we can pay ebay fees too.

It has had two offers (both declined), but I can't see paying $25K for it. It is going to take a while, but these dealers/flippers will have to come back to market reality at some point.

I sold my last 69 to Automania in New Braunfels TX for 17k. They did restore the interior then market it up to 36k! It was a clone but unfortunatly for whoever bought (if they sold it already) they didnt mention that.

For those of us lucky enough to already own a Camaro isnt that a good thing if they get those high prices? Brings the value of ours up. I would personaly rather see him get 25k than 13k make me feel a hell of a lot better for all the money I have spent on my Camaro. If he can get it god bless him I say

Im not defending these guys and I dont like it anymore than anyone else, however-coma, its good ol' American capitolism at its finest. It helps bring my Camaro upto the 20K or so mark.

38% profit..Id take that without a second thought. Business, thats what they do

I don't think god will bless those who buy and sell in the capacity we are seeing... Kind of like every little used car lot across the country.. Dealers buy a car for 2500 bucks, charge a clean up fee of 500 and market the car for 6 grand.. And of course you can finance the car with a down payment of 700 bucks and we will only charge you 18% interest in return... Yeah, I'm sure God in all his mighty is so pleased with a business of that nature.. Lets see, God allowed his son Jesus to be a sacrifice and Jesus' blood was the price for our salvation and what do people do in return? People take advantage of the poor and ruin a hobby that most of us really want to be a part of but are pushed out of the market by JoeSalesman and his 38% profit..... May God have mercy on all of us...


Thanks for the heads up..

James.

Nothing wrong with improving a car and selling it; weather you're a dealer or individual. What I have a problem is people who make clones and don't disclose it. That's fraud, pure and simple.

Kinda like "Flip That House", no?

alan

I agree.. business is business. I remember this car as well from the last time around. If someone feels the car is worth that much and buys it for the price listed so be it. If its that dishonest/overpriced then it wont sell. And i dont think God has anything to do with it.

Seller can't fix a horn? Hmmm.

I don't think god will bless those who buy and sell in the capacity we are seeing... Kind of like every little used car lot across the country.. Dealers buy a car for 2500 bucks, charge a clean up fee of 500 and market the car for 6 grand.. And of course you can finance the car with a down payment of 700 bucks and we will only charge you 18% interest in return... Yeah, I'm sure God in all his mighty is so pleased with a business of that nature.. Lets see, God allowed his son Jesus to be a sacrifice and Jesus' blood was the price for our salvation and what do people do in return? People take advantage of the poor and ruin a hobby that most of us really want to be a part of but are pushed out of the market by JoeSalesman and his 38% profit..... May God have mercy on all of us...


Thanks for the heads up..

James.

If it were really that simple wouldn't everyone have a used car lot??? I don't think a used car dealer is anywhere near as bad as a Catholic preacher screwing half the boys on the front row or the ridiculous money preachers are paid nowadays only to find out they're doing the deacons wife.:beers:

As for my car a 70Z. It's in better then new condition. I can't see why a perfectly restored 1st or 2nd gen 70 to 73 Camaro, original or not but appraised, can not be equal in value to say the new 2009 Model. That is go to a GM Dealer with your ride and trade it for the price of the new model. There is just aren't that many Classic Camaro's left today. I believe if GM Dealers had both the New and Classic Models on the lot they would attract a lot more buyers as they would be honoring the product in true heritage fashion; however, with the way Fossil Fuel prices are escalating our favorite rides are quickly becoming Doo Doo Birds.

Are those "VELOUR" seat covers??? Gee, if the guy throws in a airbrushed painting of Elvis on crushed velvet I'm buyin it!!!!!

OK, my first post on this site...
Whats wrong with flipping a car (or anything else for that matter) for profit? It's always good to have high prices to compare the value of our cars to. Dishonesty if a different matter.
And it certainly isn't a sin to make a profit.:noway:


Oh, and God begins with capitol G... Always

Okay, is it me, or is this post getting a little weird? Or is that Weird?

Okay, is it me, or is this post getting a little weird? Or is that Weird?

:yes:

Right, it's just capitalism at work...what's the alternative? Prohibit dealers from marking up car prices? People walk into classic car dealerships and pay high prices every day.

Regarding 'god', it's not capitalized, except when referring to a particular god, like "the Mayan God."

Jerry, Jerry, Jerry..... And i thought I had missed the Jerry Springer show today!!

Seriously, though, this thread brings up an open question: what is a fair price for first gen Camaros? Now that they are 40+ years old, and more of them are parted out every year, the collectors/antique factor comes into play. Add to that the fact that the new teen generation loves classic camaros-- everyone wants one (I have two teens who give me reports on this). So, they are worth whatever someone will pay for them. The problem is that this makes car dealers lick their chops, and hobbyists like most of us are caught in the $$ squeeze. I think this is what Dan was getting at with the original posting.

There is nothing wrong with a 38% mark-up. What percent do you think your local department store marks up a pair of jeans? Also, I am sure potential buyers will try to negoitiate a few thousand off that price.

And, no one makes people buy from dealers. But it does seem like people will pay more for a muscle car from a dealer then a private seller. Even with the jacked around fees. Never understood that one.

If the car is too expensive, then it won't sell. Simple as that.

Rich

The retail market determines the "markup". Say, for the sake of argument, the car was won with a $5 raffle ticket, then sold for $20K. Would the obscene % of profit be more objectionable? What if the $19995 in proceeds were given to a church? Hmmmmmm. Would that be a blessing or a curse? SHEESH!... Lets not get too deep guys... Its a car- bought at one price, and sold at another. The free market is at work. Buyers are free to purchase or walk, its that simple.

I don't think god will bless those who buy and sell in the capacity we are seeing... Kind of like every little used car lot across the country.. Dealers buy a car for 2500 bucks, charge a clean up fee of 500 and market the car for 6 grand.. And of course you can finance the car with a down payment of 700 bucks and we will only charge you 18% interest in return... Yeah, I'm sure God in all his mighty is so pleased with a business of that nature.. Lets see, God allowed his son Jesus to be a sacrifice and Jesus' blood was the price for our salvation and what do people do in return? People take advantage of the poor and ruin a hobby that most of us really want to be a part of but are pushed out of the market by JoeSalesman and his 38% profit..... May God have mercy on all of us...


Thanks for the heads up..

James.
That dealer most likely has a shop, maybe some employees other over head. He is taking "risk". His company may fail and his family will be affected. His credit may be ruined etc.. When you get out there and own a dealership and put your life and family on the line you can complain. I think if its over priced he wont sell it, simple.. Market conditions be it supply and demand of these 40 year old cars, condition, nostalgia etc etc determin the pricing. I for one hope the prices continue to go up. I have put a lot of time and love into mine it would be nice to see not only the emotional value of the car increase but the $monitary$ as well. My "god bless him" at the end was not to get a religous or moral lesson it was purely a "You go for it, and good luck!" meaning. I guess it was poor choice of words.
Be it flipping a house, a car or whatever there is risk. It's capitalism sounds like to me. God bless the USA. Hope that better suits the use of the word and I even got the capital G in, just in case! :p

You know, Jerry has this guy who is amputated at the bellybutton now. They dude walks out on his hands, and sneaks up behind the guests in the chairs to freak them out. And he has puppets on the other side of the stage. That is the total entertainment package, there. :)

Right, it's just capitalism at work...what's the alternative? Prohibit dealers from marking up car prices? People walk into classic car dealerships and pay high prices every day.

Regarding 'god', it's not capitalized, except when referring to a particular god, like "the Mayan God."


When your referring the the Almighty, the creator of the universe and the one true living god, (referring to what He is, not His name) then its ALWAYS capitalized. (and yes, this thread is getting weird in that way)

X2 on selling a car but not disclosing as a clone is unethical. Selling for a profit is fine as long as your not trying to decieve someone in the process.


Chris:cool:

here's my problem with this: it's not that someone is trying to make money. it's the fact that no one in there right mind would pay that much for it, and it will be sold anyway. that means that our collection of enthusiasts and people who would love to further the hobby are being dilluted by the 'e-bay idiots'. we will soon be judged as 'birds of a feather'. everyone will assume that since we have a cool camaro, that we are the unknowing and idiotic highest bidders. i don't want to be in that category and don't want someone trying to flip these cars like that. this is nothing more than a dumbing down of our very own gene pool, imho.

Are those "VELOUR" seat covers??? Gee, if the guy throws in a airbrushed painting of Elvis on crushed velvet I'm buyin it!!!!!

I crawled in and around this car several times, even drove it. It's a beautiful little survivor. In my opinion, it was worth at or near the previous asking price, but not $25K. As for the velour interior, it may not look that good in a picture, but I really liked it in person. Mike. :beers::beers:

This same dillema is taking place in many other classic car circles. The C2 Corvette ('63-'67) is a prime example of prices gone wild. Sometimes, the free market just sucks; unless you're on the selling-end of it. Overall though, I see the entire old car market getting soft due to fuel costs. It won't affect all, but it will affect many, imo. I bought my Vette at a dealer - paid too much - and have spent more money fixing it, than I can get for it. Definition of hobby: something you'll throw money at indefinitely. That's what these cars are, so unless you're pinched into selling it, it doesn't matter what they're "worth".