this is gonna be a long one.. sorry guys

i have been trying my hardest to find out why my car has been running so rich, but i just cant tune the carb right, no matter what i do, it still runs rich, so i took a look at the ignition

im having a weak spark at the plugs (the spark is orange)

first off, its an HEI ignition, it has an accel cap and rotor, and maybe coil, but everything else seems to be GM, and there is also a mallory power cell being used, with a kill switch hooked up in the dash

the first flaw i saw was the resistor wire was still being used, so i eliminated that, still no change in spark, not even a direct 12v line to the battery worked to improve the spark (i took the power cell out, and also the kill switch)

i have tried different wires, and a different 4 pin module in the distrib, still has weak spark

cleaned the cap and rotor up, and i gave everything a little "bend" to make sure everything is being contacted good.. once again, same thing still weak spark

im pretty much at a loss here, except for a bad coil?

what is the deal with resistor spark plugs? i am using a set right now, so is this the problem? are resistor plugs only to be used with points style ignitions, or what?

can anyone else think of what could be wrong?

i have been playing around with this for days, and im ready to give up.. i dont mind spending money on stuff, i just dont want to spend money on something and have it not be the problem, or find out the problem is some simple thing that i have overlooked

thanks for any help!

coil ???? maybe
pick up coil under the 4-pin module maybe
or get a new HEI
good luck
Larry

coil ???? maybe
pick up coil under the 4-pin module maybe
or get a new HEI
good luck
Larry

thanks.. i guess no i need to figure out if i should try a new coil or go for a whole new ign system

i was looking at the MSD pro billit distrib with the 6al box kit jegs has

The HEI is a great system but its one fault is there are numerous componenets to make it work properly, such as pickup, module, ground strap, carbon brush, etc.. Because they have so much voltage, worn parts can play a huge role in how well it works. Here are some other things to look at. Don't go buying parts for no reason.

Take a look at the carbon brush inside the cap and make sure there is still some left. The carbon brush supplies power to the rotor. If it is worn the spark will have a longer distance to travel to the rotor. Also, check the resistance of the coil and ohm rating of pickup. Using an ohm meter, connect + & - terminals and you should have around 0.5 -0.7 ohms of primary resistance of the coil. Check the mag pickup, it should read around 500-900ohms. Last but not least, turn the ignition switch on, and check voltage wire going to the HEI. Make sure you have a full 12volts. If the cap & rotor have any carbon tracks or grooves it is time to replace.

HEI Diagram (http://www.accel-ignition.com/pdf/HEIWiring.pdf)

Good luck!

thanks, where is the pickup you talk about?

i can check everything later today, i dont have my meter with me at the moment

actually, i just blew out a module, and i had to replace it, i was at about 2krpm and all of a sudden everything cut off, i thought i ran out of gas at first, so i hooked the timing light up and there was no spark at all

thankfully i had an extra module, those things are like $30.. what a ripoff

Back to basics
my hardest to find out why my car has been running so rich,
How do u know? plugs, pipes, analyser, dyno?

Back to basics

How do u know? plugs, pipes, analyser, dyno?

plugs are fouled out

ok i just checked the battery, and it says 13.0v

the + and - on the coil was giving me .7 to .8, switching back and fourth

the coil wire is getting 12.5v (after checking again, i got 12.87v for the battery) and checking the power in the coil was giving me the same thing

so what other possible cause could there be? does this mean that the coil is working fine? or could there still be a problem with it

plugs are fouled out
wet, sooty, oily? center electrode shows correct plug heat bluing? fouling on top or bottom or even?
Checked after a good run or did u let idle before shutting down?
All the plugs the same?

wet, sooty, oily? center electrode shows correct plug heat bluing? fouling on top or bottom or even?
Checked after a good run or did u let idle before shutting down?
All the plugs the same?

if i let the engine idle i get wet plugs because they are soaked with gas, running the car at around 2krpm and shutting it off gives me a dry black plug

the plugs will foul up with 5 min running time

the plugs were the same, but one of then quit working, and the other has a piece of sand lodged in it from sandblasting them to clean them up

i have the correct ac delco plugs in 6 of the cylinders and 2 accels in the other two (it has been like this for about a week)

the car isnt ready to be driven yet, so im not too concerned about it.

once i can get the spark to be good, i will start my work on the carb

How is the HEI problem? Looks like your making some progress. You said you had two different styles of plugs, please change that, it drives me nuts just to hear you say that...HA HA HA!!

The pickup is the part that the module attaches to. Try new plug wires too. Let me know if you need a distrubutor!!

How is the HEI problem? Looks like your making some progress. You said you had two different styles of plugs, please change that, it drives me nuts just to hear you say that...HA HA HA!!

The pickup is the part that the module attaches to. Try new plug wires too. Let me know if you need a distrubutor!!


well, i just got a new coil and the car is acting different, instead of puffing out blue smoke (not oil, but raw unburnt fuel) it is puffing black smoke out

the problem is the spark doesnt really look any different than it used to

i think there may be a ground problem because one of the screws on the coil (which happens to be the one the ground goes to) is stripped out and i cant get it to tighten

im having a weak spark at the plugs (the spark is orange

Are you sure you aren't just running on the rich side? You may need to address the carb first and see if you can't lean it out a bit. You may just be dumping alot more fuel than you realize. I just hate to see ya spin your wheels on something that may not even be a problem.

To be perfectly honest if you can tell how many kv your plugs are pulling by the color of the spark I bet nasa would have a pretty sweet job for ya!! The color of the spark indicating how good it is, is a total load of horse puckey. I'm sure I'll get told the opposite, but the straight up truth is the only way to know how good your spark is is to use a scope that can measure how much kv is being pulled from each plug. There are just too many factors involved to be able to know if you have a good spark by the color. Just some examples, brand, gap, type, and wear of the plugs, brand, resistance, type, of wires, same applies for the cap, the rotor, coil, module, pickup, and so on and so forth.

However if you have someone look at your car while its running with the scope on it, that is good with diagnostic work, by looking at the spark lines and amount of kv being pulled by each they should be able to narrow down the problem as far as, is it primary, or secondary ignition problem, or fuel, or timing. Finding some one that knows what they are looking at and correctly diagnose it is the main problem however, as the more self diagnosing the vehicles are getting the fewer people remember or know how to do that kind of diagnosis.

just my .02 as always.

Are you sure you aren't just running on the rich side? You may need to address the carb first and see if you can't lean it out a bit. You may just be dumping alot more fuel than you realize. I just hate to see ya spin your wheels on something that may not even be a problem.

To be perfectly honest if you can tell how many kv your plugs are pulling by the color of the spark I bet nasa would have a pretty sweet job for ya!! The color of the spark indicating how good it is, is a total load of horse puckey. I'm sure I'll get told the opposite, but the straight up truth is the only way to know how good your spark is is to use a scope that can measure how much kv is being pulled from each plug. There are just too many factors involved to be able to know if you have a good spark by the color. Just some examples, brand, gap, type, and wear of the plugs, brand, resistance, type, of wires, same applies for the cap, the rotor, coil, module, pickup, and so on and so forth.

However if you have someone look at your car while its running with the scope on it, that is good with diagnostic work, by looking at the spark lines and amount of kv being pulled by each they should be able to narrow down the problem as far as, is it primary, or secondary ignition problem, or fuel, or timing. Finding some one that knows what they are looking at and correctly diagnose it is the main problem however, as the more self diagnosing the vehicles are getting the fewer people remember or know how to do that kind of diagnosis.

just my .02 as always.

thanks, so you are saying it is ok for me to be having orange in my spark?

a lot of people i have talked to have told me that the spark should be a definite blue.. but i will take your word for it

i do have another question though

with the new coil in, like i said earlier the car seems to run better, but the wires of the coil are different colors, and come out of different places

my old coil was a red/white wire and the red crossed over the white, when installing the new coil i put the red where the old red was and the yellow where the white was.. did i do it correct?

someone told me that fliping the wires around will still let the car run, and ure enough it did.. so which way is correct here?

What color the spark is as far as I'm concerned is completely irrellevant. I realise not everyone has access to scopes and scanners and such, or would even know what they are looking at if they did, but as far as I'm concerned its really only one of the few ways to be really sure as to whats going on inside your combustion chamber.

As far as what color wire goes where, I'm not 100% sure but I think as to what color wires are used is at the whim of the individual manufacturer of the components in question. As far as them being switched around I'm not sure, it's never accurred to me to try. Without looking at a wire schematic I'm not really sure.