single stage paint questions [Archive] - Team Camaro Tech

: single stage paint questions


69Tom
Jul 8th, 08, 11:59 AM
OK, I initially posted a thread regarding SPI epoxy primer, but I found myself with more questions than when I started, so I broadened the post (feel free to delete the other one).

I plan on using an epoxy primer with a single stage paint. My questions are as follows:

1. what is a good brand of single stage paint to use? I am looking for a good quality paint at not PPG prices. haha.

2. where can I find both the epoxy primer and paint? I would ultimately like to use the same brand primer and paint. While it's not necessary, I'd just rather use the same brand if I have any issues. I'm having a hell of a time finding either single stage paints or any suppliers near me on the internet, and I am usually more than adept at finding things on the net.

3. when shooting, how long should I wait between coats of single-stage paint? I'm sure I'll find this answer on the net somewhere, but figured I'd ask.

Thanks for the help.

victimizati0n
Jul 8th, 08, 12:11 PM
check out eastwood.com

they have the paint you need, and it depends on the paint, but usually you can spray another coat after 15 min

69Tom
Jul 8th, 08, 12:18 PM
I've read that eastwood's paints aren't great. Is this true? On top of that, I need LeMans Blue, and I'm pretty sure they don't carry it. I want it to be exact.

victimizati0n
Jul 8th, 08, 12:22 PM
I've read that eastwood's paints aren't great. Is this true? On top of that, I need LeMans Blue, and I'm pretty sure they don't carry it. I want it to be exact.

i have no idea

i was actually just ready to buy some of their primer and paint.. i hope someone else can tune in

68IslTeal
Jul 8th, 08, 12:33 PM
ok have seen this question alot lately...

I would pass on the eastwood auto paints, I check their forums often and to date no posts have popped up praising or backing the product. Its most likely a private labeld low end paint.

Your local paint supply store will have paints that do not hang in the ppg price range. Or there is tcpglobal.com. They sell private labeled paint under the kustom shop name and restoration line paint. These are both valspar based paint lines supposedly. I have used kustom shop on some small projects and like what I have seen. I have been using the kustom shop hi build primer around here on various projects and just ordered some more for the camaro project.

I have not used restoration line before but hear it is pretty thinned down and takes a little more paint to get good coverage.

JimM
Jul 8th, 08, 12:35 PM
As for Lemans Blue, at least with PPG, it does not exist. The book crosses it to a color from the late 70's, don't recall exactly which. It's VERY close.

When you buy your paint make sure you get the datasheet.
The datasheet has lots of info, including product compatibility, recommended reducers, recoat time, tape time, tape removal time, everything you can think of, every question you could ask, will be on the datasheet. Follow it exactly.

69Tom
Jul 8th, 08, 12:45 PM
Hmm, interesting re: the color. I've used this place in the past http://www.carpaintonline.com/index.php and they use the original codes to match the color. However, I believe it's their "own brand" (I'm not sure what products they're using to mix), but say it's very close to PPG Concept DCC single stage paint. It's also $230 per gallon.

I checked out the Kustom Shop and didn't really see any single stage paint. Perhaps I missed it? I'd also worry about the colors matching up with the original. I'd really like it to be as close to original as possible.

go2fast
Jul 8th, 08, 01:03 PM
Southern polyurethanes makes a good inexpensive single stage urethane. Lots of good paint/body advice here http://autobodystore.com/forum/index.php

68IslTeal
Jul 8th, 08, 01:35 PM
SPI does not make le mans blue, plus they are getting out of the paint industry.

68IslTeal
Jul 8th, 08, 01:37 PM
I would hit my local paint supply co. they will have omni, nason, etc... that I am sure they can color match for you. Dealing with online co's and remote suppliers is not as safe bet as a local paint supplier. If I had a specific paint blend I wanted I would be getting it locally instead of internet/phone/mail order.

69Tom
Jul 8th, 08, 01:39 PM
Well, I think that's the way I'm leaning based on the difficulty I've had on the internet. Now I just need to find a good local paint supply company. Anyone know of any in NY or NJ?

Based on what I've read, it seems like SPI is a good way to go with the epoxy primer, no matter what paint I end up using.

Vintage 68
Jul 8th, 08, 01:58 PM
You might want to check out the "Kirker" line.
Here is a link to their AE line - http://www.smartshoppersinc.com/Kirker/acrylic-enamels.html

Steptoe
Jul 8th, 08, 02:07 PM
If u are going single pot u have enamel or laquar, I dont think the old nitocellelose is avalable any more unless u buy lots of nail polish.
These paints dry rather than cure, which have there own quirks also
Any undercaoats, espec the last coats for fimal block down, should be left for a good week before blocking...this gives them a good chance to shink 1st
Enamel is not very forgiving, it runs/hangs easy and not suitable to sand out, means wiping off panel and respray....
1st coat thick enough to just see thru, 2nd coat goes on when u touch with the finger and it stretches, this holds the sec coat up...u then get the hell out, and leave for 12 hrs
It is slow dry and if mixed and put on correct at the right temps will flow out over night.
Enamels, if cut will loose a little of the orginal gloss, but still looks good.
After a month or so polish, and maintian a good polish as they do over period tend to chalk off.

Laquar is very forgivng, fast drying, nice finish but lot of finish work.
Again let undercoats dry like enamels, and final block down
1st coat again so can only just see thru, by the time u have finished the 1st dump, where u started will be dry to touch....hit in with a quite heavy coat, but dont go overboard, u have to be real agressive to get it to hang or run..Then hit with a ouple good coats of clear.
let dry for a week then light wet sand with 1200, and again heavier with 1600.
Then cut.. polish about a month later.

All systems should use the right type of undercoats and thinners, not doing so can end up with alsorts of issues from frying, paint cracking after couple summers, to paint going glug in the pot.

kenseth17
Jul 8th, 08, 06:54 PM
Although I haven't tried it yet, I don't shoot very much single stage, I am thinking Utech (sikkens now owns them)might make a decent single stage if you want to save some cash. At least there base seemed to be nicer with better coverage then omni-ppg owned or limco-basf owned, and the little I see mentioned of utech, I don't ever really see bad comments.

69Tom
Jul 9th, 08, 07:41 AM
A member here on the boards contacted me regarding a couple of gallons of single-stage R-M lacquer paint he has. Said he's had it about 20 years, stored in a warm garage, and has been shaken periodically. Seems like a good price for the paint, so I'm interested. I'm a little concerned about the age of the paint, but if it's been properly stored and shaken every so often, it should be ok, no?

Any thoughts? In no way am I trying to undermine the member. I just really am a newbie when it comes to paints, so I want to make sure I have all my information first. I do know to match up all lacquer products and not mix with urethane products.

68IslTeal
Jul 9th, 08, 08:12 AM
not to knock someone elses stuff... but why would you risk a 20yr old paint on your car, regardless if the paint was free even? If price is the issue and you dont car about quality then hit ebay and buy a whole paint ur car kit for about 75.00

There is alot of good info on here, but seriously use the phone book and find a local paint supplier... then visit them and talk with them. They will sell all kinds of paint from budget stuff I wouldn't put o na swing set to stuff I would feel safe using on a ferrari.

Hell for that matter visit maaco and get a full paint job for around 200ish, that really going budget. It will look as good as any budget singe stage job you do or have someone else to do. What makes the paint job look good is the buffing after the paint job.

69Tom
Jul 9th, 08, 08:52 AM
not to knock someone elses stuff... but why would you risk a 20yr old paint on your car, regardless if the paint was free even? If price is the issue and you dont car about quality then hit ebay and buy a whole paint ur car kit for about 75.00

There is alot of good info on here, but seriously use the phone book and find a local paint supplier... then visit them and talk with them. They will sell all kinds of paint from budget stuff I wouldn't put o na swing set to stuff I would feel safe using on a ferrari.

Hell for that matter visit maaco and get a full paint job for around 200ish, that really going budget. It will look as good as any budget singe stage job you do or have someone else to do. What makes the paint job look good is the buffing after the paint job.

Clearly you think it's a bad idea to get the old paint.:D Well, that's why I was asking. I'm not necessarily going for super cheap paint here. I just need to find a place I can get what I need.

69Tom
Jul 9th, 08, 01:30 PM
Well, after a bit of research, I found what seems to be a good auto paint supply store near me. They seems to have good prices, so I'm going to go with PPG Omni single stage urethane. Hopefully this will work well. Thanks all for the help.

kenseth17
Jul 9th, 08, 02:18 PM
Even though omni is a cheaper line of urethane, that will be a lot better choice then that lacquer would have been. I have omni mtk urethane on one of my beaters, and 6 years later, at least the paint itself still looks pretty good. Although its white, don't know if some other colors would have faired as good.

69Tom
Jul 9th, 08, 02:21 PM
I'm reading over at the autobodyforums that there's a bit of a coverage issue with the Omni line. I might see if they have a step up from that. I don't want to totally cheap out on the paint. I'm saving a ton of dough by doing it myself, so spending a little extra on paint is probably a good idea.

Everett#2390
Jul 9th, 08, 02:26 PM
I've never had a problem with Dupont Acrylic Enamel. Mix correctly with temperature hardener and reducer, and goes on quite well.

The key is the shape of fan spray and the stroke. And having lots of light on the car.

JimM
Jul 9th, 08, 03:05 PM
The single staghe urathane should be fine, though I don't really understand why you don't want to spray clear?

Remember you cannot wetsand or buff a single stage metallic, what comes out of the gun is what you get, orange peel and all.

I used hardened enamal underhood, also in Lemans Blue, and also PPG. I don't like it at all. color doesn't match, even though both paints were mixed from the same book in the same store on the same day. Also, the enamel is not "tough." If I want to, I can wash my fenders with laquer thinner and it won't hurt the paint. Wipe the firewall, I get a blue rag. Chips much easier too.

69Tom
Jul 9th, 08, 03:09 PM
So Jim, what would recommend using that wouldn't break my bank and that would get me the correct color?

JimM
Jul 9th, 08, 05:43 PM
So Jim, what would recommend using that wouldn't break my bank and that would get me the correct color?
Yikes, Tom. I'm no pro, and just can't make that recommendation for you.
I did mine in PPG DBC and PPG clear. My paint cost a grand, for everything from the primer to the compund and buffing stuff, including all the reducers and stuff. I didn't consider that too much money, and I managed to do a decent paint job with the stuff, tho certainly not pro quality.

I would tho, recommend you go with 2 stage urathane.

Some of the pro body guys here can probably recommend a brand that costs less than the PPG's of the world and will still do a good paint job.

A few nice thick coats of clear give you something you can work with. A box of 2000 grit and some elbow grease, and all the lil dirt spots are gone, most of the runs if you get any, and all of the orange peel. A few more hours with a rented buffer, and anyone can make a car look like glass.
Plus the stuff is rock hard, even air dried without an oven. It will resist chips and other damage much better than any other paint system.

This is a nasty ugly hard job. Hell must be very similar to spending a weekend breathing paint dust in a 20 foot square plastic coffin. I think a 2 stage system gives the ameture the best possible odds of pulling off a winner.

danimaldds
Jul 9th, 08, 06:02 PM
I use Nason single on all our race cars. Holds up real well under extreme conditions. Not to expensive either. Just go to your local auto paint shop and see if they can match the color.

68IslTeal
Jul 10th, 08, 04:56 AM
Not to be nosey Tom, but what is your budget range? I guess if we knew roughly what you could handle spending then we could all take strabs at it perhaps and see if it gets you any closer to painting the car.