WARNING RANT HERE!!!!

I just came down off my soapbox for Ingersoll Rand

My NEW (new to me, 17 months old) IR SS5N5 5 hp 80 gallon 135 PSI Air Compressor AC motor just blew up. It has 1 year warranty on the motor, I bet I don't have 20 hours on this thing yet. The windings apparently shorted and almost caught the thing on fire. I called IR warranty they said sorry about my luck (out of warranty) but I needed to check the voltage, and the breaker and the wiring. I have a 30 amp breaker, number 8 wire ( only 15 foot run from the breaker box) and 235 volts across the two hots at the motor.
They said: well even though the voltage is good if it drops even a few volts when it starts it will burn out the motor, and that they recommend a 60 amp breaker and using a 30 amp could also cause the motor to fail. The motor is rated at 21 amps at start up, I'm 30% over the maximum at start up. They said the motor is VERY sensitive and any of these things will cause the motor to fail.
The kicker is they want with shipping almost $500 for the motor. I only paid $800 for the whole compressor.
My friend laughed at me for spending more on an IR instead of the harbor freight he bought for half the price with a TWO year warranty. I told him at the time about the better quality of the IR's and you get what you pay for, He's still laughing because mine is broken and his is still running and in warranty.
I've called three times to IR service to have someone in Customer service call me back and have yet to receive a call back.
I goggled the motor part number and ran across a few other listing the exact motor number also failing a little after a year on their IR.
When I talked to service the first time they said that was not so and they had less than 1% failure on that motor, I'm part of the 1% apparently.

So now I am stuck with a bad motor and have to shell out almost 2/3 the cost of the thing to fix it and right when I was starting the major sheet metal work on my car.

I talked for a couple years to convince my wife to let me get a nice big compressor and that IR was worth the price, and now feeling pretty foolish.

When it worked it was great but now I'm not much of a fan of IR.
Sorry about the RANT but I need to vent.

Also

Does anyone now of a good source of replacement motor for mine
The OEM was Emerson, the IR number is IR 54421193

Thanks
Ray

Ray,
See if there is a local company that rebuilds electric motors. We have one near us that can usually fix them for about half of what a new one would cost.

Thanks BillK

When I was searching on the Internet I ran across a few sites that rebuild AC motors. I think there is one in Dayton Ohio near me. I was not sure what level they could repair. I flipped the breaker the first time and saw the sparks shooting from one side of the windings. I was not sure if they could replace windings etc. But that is definitely an option to check out.
From my history of response from IR I think my chances of talking them into replacing the motor is slim.


Thanks
Ray

There are places around that sell rebuilt units. I put a reman on my Quincy quite a few years ago and have never had a problem. I would not give up on IR keep bugging the crap out of them all the way to the top. Good luck.

I think Northern Tool for example carries name brand motors. You could probably find a similarly rated motor with the same shaft size and length there or somewhere else.

Its a little late now, but you might measure the voltage with the motor running to see if its low with a load.

I don't see how a 30A breaker can hurt the motor. If it doesn't trip, there's no problem there.

Along the lines of what Bill suggests you might just look for a new motor from a local source.

I'm a bit confused, was the compressor new or used? If it was 17 months old I'd not be happy about it burning out the motor but that's 7 mo past warranty. Also you say new to you, doesn't that mean who ever had it before you may have set things in motion towards burning out the motor?

I bought eaton air compressors and am very happy,check with Matt about a motor they are nice to deal with. Ive had my conpressors about 5 years with no problems i=I change the oil about every 30 hrs. My compressors have magnetic starters and are on 30 amp breakers with #10 wire....
http://www.eatoncompressor.com/page/page/504413.htm

Thanks for the suggestions guys

I will pursue replacement but like advised I will not until I've exhausted every avenue with IR. I can be a real pest when I try.

If I cannot win my argument with them I will buy a replacement motor or check on a rebuild on this motor.

I guess my real beef is that they are saying that the motor they use is very unforgiving on ANYTHING except optimal conditions.
The guy from service on the first call said that other motors such a dryers or washing machines or wood working tools can handle the various environments but NOT the motors that IR uses. Sounds like either BAD engineering or a cop out from IR.

DjD

I might have been confusing in that wording. I bought the compressor new from a local Tractor Supply.

I took extra measures to ensure it was wired in correctly. Only used the synthetic oil from IR on the compressor portion and have changed it three times with only a few hours on the compressor.

I should be Pi$$ed, but that is life and I'll move on. My plan is to pester them until one of us gives up.
But with that being said I am stalled on my project as I converted most of my tools to air for my restoration project, ironically mostly IR air tolls LOL

I do not want to wait too long before I need to move on and buy a new motor from someone or rebuild this one.

Word to everyone, you may want to ( if you have an IR compressor) get the Extended Warranty.:yes:

Ray

If the IR electric motors are so sensitive to what circuit breaker you use and what voltage it gets, do they spell that out explicitly in big letters in the documentation you receive with the compressor? If not, they need to go pound sand and send you a new motor. Thanks for the heads up, I won't buy one of their products.

What ever happened to companies protecting their good name by building durable high quality products and taking care of their customers? Anybody remember the old Curtis-Mathis TV ads back when the Asian invasion started? "Curtis-Mathis. Costs a little more but darn well worth it". They came with a 4 or 5 year warranty which the Japanese TVs could never even think about doing.

Oh crap. I have turned into an old man.:o

Did it require a magnetic starter both of my compressors have them.Even the cheap compressors I've bought in the past have had magnetic starters on them.Just a thought......

" I might have been confusing in that wording. I bought the compressor new from a local Tractor Supply."


Ray...
Be sure to buzz the ears of the store you bought the unit at. They may be able to help.

Kev

SixtyAte

I going to try and catch a manager at the local Tractor Supply and see if they will try to do something.


Buzz0

I looked over the installation manual when after I first talked to them , The Installation of the motor as stated by the manual gives NO specifics whats so ever. Just basically refer the the label on the motor for amp and voltage and follow eletrical standards by code for wire and breaker size.

david calligan

Those compressors look great AND a good warranty, They are in Englewood Ohio which is about 20 minutes from where I live.
Wish I would have known about them before. I'm not sure if mine has a magnetic starter. I really cannot fine any detailed info on the motor on the web, even though it's made by Emerson I cannot find it listed in their site.


Thanks
Ray

Ray,
Did you happen to check Graingers Supply for a replacement motor, might be cheaper than getting direct from IR?

I burnt out a motor on my compressor fairly quickly about 20 years back. When I purchased the replacement the sales person told me it died from paint overspray. I repaced a 5HP special with a 3HP at his suggestion. I have kept that one out of the overspray and it's still running no problems.

Jeff

I burnt out a motor on my compressor fairly quickly about 20 years back. When I purchased the replacement the sales person told me it died from paint overspray. I repaced a 5HP special with a 3HP at his suggestion. I have kept that one out of the overspray and it's still running no problems.

Jeff


I was wondering if you can wrap the motor with some of the cloth roll type insulation during spraying to keep out the overspray. It should still let it breath no?

After all this I was thinking the same thing on my new ( whatever it will be) motor. Now I'm getting paranoid on protecting the motor.

With the compressor in the garage area it is exposed to dust and dirt like everything else in the garage. I have the car I'm working on encased in a plastic tent to keep anything from getting to the rest of the garage and on the other daily driver cars.

I was thinking maybe a box like enclosure of furnace filters for dust etc.
IR would then claim lack of air flow:yes:.

Also on a side note, I do not have the motor going through a receptacle. I was originally thinking of a large 220 like dryer plug.
IR service said any receptacle could lead to motor failure as a chance of reduced current.
Now I probably will not do that. DOES anyone else have it hooked up through a receptacle or quick disconnect.
If so any problems??

Thanks
Ray

I added a small shed next to my garage that houses both my compressors that is heated and has a cross draft ventilator that comes on at 95 %....

How did you pay for it? Some credit cards will automatically extend the warranty on some purchases up to one extra year. I believe American Express has the policy...not sure what the qualifications are, but it's worth checking if you paid by a credit card.

I bought eaton air compressors and am very happy,check with Matt about a motor they are nice to deal with. Ive had my conpressors about 5 years with no problems i=I change the oil about every 30 hrs. My compressors have magnetic starters and are on 30 amp breakers with #10 wire....
http://www.eatoncompressor.com/page/page/504413.htm

Sounds like there products are better then their spelling :)



Now Excepting Resumes/Applications:

Service Technicians
Assembly Line Workers
Fabricators
I purchased this compressor about 12 years ago. No problems at all and I use it daily. The little round covers on top of the motor house the magnetic starters. Did the IR motor have something similiar?

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j199/64elcamino/aircomp.jpg

Ray,

If the comp ratings say that it draws 21a then a 30a breaker is more than enough. Though the plate should give a min and max amp rating. If it's a 21a max then a 25a breaker would be as big as you would want. #10 wire for the 25 would be correct. If IR is saying a 60a breaker for the unit then they obviously haven't a clue about elect codes and are seriously blowing smoke up your behind.

I'd look into Grainger for a replacement motor. Look up the info on the motors data plate and head to Grainger for at least a quote. I can't see that motor costing anymore than $175.

#10 wire is rated for 30 amps max. I have mine plugged into a 220 vac receptacle by my compressor. Then I have a #10 romex cable ran to where my dryer plugs in. I have a gas dryer so I use that receptcle to power my air compressor. It is on a 30 amp circuit and I have had it like that for 14 years with no problems. My unit is a 60 gallon 5hp 2 stage compressor. So I have my unit plugged into 2 different receptacles and never had a problem.

Also my air compressor is outside. I poured a little slab and built a shed over it on the side of my house. I had a large screen made at one time for a door but it broke years ago. Now I dont have to listen to it run.

Since you found the problems with the motors on the internet tells me they have cheap motors. There is definitely something wrong with their motors. I would not get another one from them. I would find a replacement from Grainger. They have Dayton motors.

I have a Graingers store location in my town ,Troy ohio.
I will take the info off of the plate, or I could even take the motor there to get a quote. Sounds like good advice to me.
Monday I'm going to try and someone in customer service at IR to complain too. But meanwhile go to Graingers for a quote.
I post any updates as they happen.

Thanks
Ray

I purchased this compressor about 12 years ago. No problems at all and I use it daily. The little round covers on top of the motor house the magnetic starters. Did the IR motor have something similiar?


Actually, they are capacitors. One is used at start and one at run. The start one helps get it moving and the run one helps with efficiency.

I think if his field coils shorted, it's either defective or something got caught in it. A good motor shop can rewind it.

go2fast

They do have the 2 capacitors on the top. Looking at the windings I can see that it looks like they used a smaller type wire mesh that is tied around the main copper coil windings. If I had to guess I would say their purpose was to hold the main windings tight togather in a bundle. The short sparked blacked area I can see looks like the smaller wire cut through the insulation on the main coil and shorted out. At least that is what it looks like.

Thanks
Ray

I have one of these motors that was removed from an IR compressor during installation here at work. We have 3 phase power and the compressor came with this single phase motor. The motor has never been used. I'd be willing to sell it and ship it to you.

Sounds like there products are better then their spelling :)



I purchased this compressor about 12 years ago. No problems at all and I use it daily. The little round covers on top of the motor house the magnetic starters. Did the IR motor have something similiar?

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j199/64elcamino/aircomp.jpg


Those round things on top of your motor are capacitors. They are to help kick start the motor but, they are not the same as a magnetic starter. A magnetic motor starter is just a big relay. Usually housed in a seperate box hanging on the compressor. Usually they have OL's (overloads), with a reset button on them. The OL's trip if the motor starts pulling to much current.

If you run the motor under voltage it can hurt the motor, I doubt that is the problem here because when the voltage level drops the motor will pull more current (amps). sinnce your 30 amp breaker wasn't tripping I doubt you were under voltage.

To buy a new motor all you need are: voltage, frame, HP, RPM that's all that you need off the motor tag. Doesn't matter who makes it that is the standard. I would first try a local motor shop and see what they will charge to rebuild that motor. It really doesn't matter if you smoked it or not it can be fixed.

As far as protecting the motor from the elements that would be nice but, it's really not needed. We have motors at work that run 24/7 365 and I know your garage is no where near as bad of an environment as the plant I work in. If you want to blow the motor out every once in a while that's fine. If it has grease fittings you might want to hit them once a year or so. As long as the motor fan is turning the motor should stay cool and live for a very long time (many many years).

Like all companies IR is trying to make more profit and I would be willing to bet that is a very cheap motor, probably imported.

Quick Update,

I have made 7 calls to IR at different levels, National and local and have not had a single person call me back to even inquire what I was calling about. I'm done

I called Grainger and they crossed the motor off of the Emerson part number to a exact match to one of theirs. $240 plus tax, and they will have it to the Troy store this afternoon. It is an A.O Smith motor.


Thanks everyone for all the advice and help.

I cannot wait to get the compressor back up and operating.

Thanks

I don't know if this will help.....I had the same problem with a cheap air compressor that I bought several years ago. The starting capacitors smoked. I took them off (unsoldered leads) took them to a good electrical supply house, had a very knowledgeable counterman match them up. I reinstalled them and the compressor ran for several years until I bought my new one. I think the capacitors were less that $10. each. Check Graingers to see if they have the capacitors.

If the IR electric motors are so sensitive to what circuit breaker you use and what voltage it gets, do they spell that out explicitly in big letters in the documentation you receive with the compressor? If not, they need to go pound sand and send you a new motor. Thanks for the heads up, I won't buy one of their products.

What ever happened to companies protecting their good name by building durable high quality products and taking care of their customers? Anybody remember the old Curtis-Mathis TV ads back when the Asian invasion started? "Curtis-Mathis. Costs a little more but darn well worth it". They came with a 4 or 5 year warranty which the Japanese TVs could never even think about doing.

Oh crap. I have turned into an old man.:o
It is sad, but most companies today pay more attention to price and profits then quality. Most warranties have become a Marketing tool, not a real warranty. I bought a Sony Camera and it was still under warranty. The loops that the strap attaches to are plastic and only plastic (no metal, although today they are all metal). This broke while rapped around my hand and fell to the concrete and destroyed my camera. Sony said they do not cover "dropped" camera's. Even after explaining, it was not warrantied. Companies just don't want to spend the money. You can bet that with a plastic attaching loop, I was not the only complaint they got.

People buy roofs today and they are told they have a 30 years warranty. They are really warrantied for ONLY 5 year. During that time any tear-off charges, dumpster, venting, Ice & Water, etc. will be paid BY YOU. After 5 years they are Pro-Rated MATERIAL ONLY, no labor will be covered what so ever. How does that equal a 30 year warranty. If you don't think there are lots of defective roofs, ask your local postmaster or UPS store. They mail them and see them all the time.

Unfortunately, move on, they won't do anything. Those days are gone, LONG GONE!! You can bet that with cost control and quality control reductions for price reductions, they will lose you as a customer for the Profitablity issue. Promise, you are not the only bad motor they had in that time frame. The good news is that I was getting ready to buy one and now I think I will go with the Eastwood.

I would recommend looking for a local compressor company. They can recommend what you need to do for a motor replacement. I would recommend a baldor; these are the best motors in the business. My dad bought one for our compressor for 315.00. Our compressor is about twice the size as yours about 250cfm.

Man that sux what kind of electric motor is on your IR unit? Baldor?

I have had this IR over 12 years. Mine came with a Furnas magnetic starter (grey box mounted on wall) and an American made Baldor motor. Also like you I have a 30amp breaker.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b77/HAWGDADDY/DSCN0535.jpg