i have a friend who just purchased a 1969 z28 with a crossram and JL8 package.. So far the numbers are matching, but is there any code on the tag on the fire wall (or anywhere else) that will prove its a TRUE cross ram car? I know the front rotors should be 11 3/4" in diameter, but other then that how can you tell? Can we get the vehicle history from GM??? thanks!

there is no such thing as a factory crossram car....dealer or costumer installed item.

so i must say...if it has a crossram on it...then it must be a crossram car...

right?

There is such a thing as a factory RPO JL8 Camaro but this could have been dealer added or home built also.

If you do a search on JL8, it should turn up some info on it.

Does the car have original factory or dealer paperwork showing the RPO JL8?

You can only get a history from GM if it was originally sold in Canada.

Like John and Joe have said, the cross ram was not installed in the assembly plant, but you can get the casting number and date off parts like the intake and stamping numbers off the carbs to see if they are at least the correct GM supplied components. I don't think the hood has stamp codes, but some pics would help the guys here tell if it is a GM hood.

Post up some more information on the car and we'll try to help. There's a known dealer up in the northwest that adds a repo crossram to all his cars and has also added JL8 stuff as well. There were no factory installed crossram cars so don't worry about documenting that. Lets just try to find out if your car is legit first.

Is this the car that was sold at Hot August Nights ?

Is this the car that was sold at Hot August Nights ?

That's what I was wondering. I watched it sell, didn't see Reggie there.

Good question, I would want to know before spending $127,000 + 8%.
BTW, the car had a "Caution Fan" Sticker on it before the auction, it was removed before the sale so I figured someone from Team Camaro was on the case. You can see it here:

http://www.silverauctions.com/auction_view.php?eventid=56&lotid=11905

That's what I was wondering. I watched it sell, didn't see Reggie there.

Good question, I would want to know before spending $127,000 + 8%.
BTW, the car had a "Caution Fan" Sticker on it before the auction, it was removed before the sale so I figured someone from Team Camaro was on the case. You can see it here:

http://www.silverauctions.com/auction_view.php?eventid=56&lotid=11905

Do I see a proportioning valve on that car?

RPO JL8 was only available for a fairly short time period in 69, Im not sure a trim tag coded D80 car could get JL8 brakes, it may have been cancelled by that time depending on how late or early the car was built. If its a September,October or November car, then theres no way its got factory JL8s. Need more info.

This WAS the car at hot august nights.. now the car is popping through the front carbuertor.... the owner is NOT happy
we have concluded the car is at least numbers matching. To my knowledge, the intake manifold is stamped correctly.. ill have to check the carbs.
Wont GM have some kind of proof that it was a dealer installed cross ram?

That's what I was wondering. I watched it sell, didn't see Reggie there.

Good question, I would want to know before spending $127,000 + 8%.
BTW, the car had a "Caution Fan" Sticker on it before the auction, it was removed before the sale so I figured someone from Team Camaro was on the case. You can see it here:

http://www.silverauctions.com/auction_view.php?eventid=56&lotid=11905

your correct, that sticker is no longer there

Do I see a proportioning valve on that car?
can you explain what a proportioning valve is?

RPO JL8 was only available for a fairly short time period in 69, Im not sure a trim tag coded D80 car could get JL8 brakes, it may have been cancelled by that time depending on how late or early the car was built. If its a September,October or November car, then theres no way its got factory JL8s. Need more info.

we need to find out the build date, but to my knowledge after july 1969 JL8 was no longer offered??

Car is incorrectly painted - should have white stripes.

can you explain what a proportioning valve is?

JL8 cars did not have a proportioning valve and there is one on that car. The JL8 rear might have been added to that car. You may want to get an expert to inspect the car to verify if the JL8 brakes are original or not. It doesn't look like it. You may want to have the crossram looked at closely to in case it might be a reproduction and not an original GM piece.

your correct, that sticker is no longer there

I wonder if Denis taked to the guy...:D

Mark, my brother has a D80 jl8 car that is documented, not sure of build date, but it is a flat hood car.

the hood is steel on the car... i can probably get the upper and lower casting numbers for the intake.. can you tell by the numbers if their GM or not?

the hood is steel on the car... i can probably get the upper and lower casting numbers for the intake.. can you tell by the numbers if their GM or not?

The repro intake has the snowflake and GM casting numbers on them so it's tough to tell. The dates on the underside of the top and bottom of the intake might give a better indication if the crossram is original or not. Try to get some detail pictures of the carb numbers as well to see if they are original dated carbs or the more recent re-release 4295 carbs.

I am curious what the decal is on top of air filter lid?

It looks like it says "CAM AM 302"?

I am curious what the decal is on top of air filter lid?

It looks like it says "CAM AM 302"?

Somebody was selling those decals on Ebay. I think they say something like Can Am 302 458 hp because that's what Traco prepped crossram motors put out.

I'm guessing this car was sold by the "Camaro Factory" in the state of OR.

May well be another everything fabricated, everything documented, "matching numbers"
RECREATION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh man, that doesn't sound good at all. This car was from Reggie Jackson's collection, I figured he had pretty good stuff.

I'm guessing this car was sold by the "Camaro Factory" in the state of OR.

May well be another everything fabricated, everything documented, "matching numbers"
RECREATION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

fyi the numbers are matching

fyi the numbers are matching

Again, I would have an expert examine the car to verify everything and make sure they are original GM parts and stampings. That car does not appear to be an original JL8 car so it should probably be inspected.

How much will a documented one bring if an undocumented one brings $150,000? Geez

How much will a documented one bring if an undocumented one brings $150,000? Geez

Hey Tim,
Probably the same amount, but from different buyers. :)

BTW, when's your show coming back to Chattanooga?

Again, I would have an expert examine the car to verify everything and make sure they are original GM parts and stampings. That car does not appear to be an original JL8 car so it should probably be inspected.

thanks for the advice Jeff... i agree the car should be profesionally inspected

QUOTE : (Hey Tim,
Probably the same amount, but from different buyers.)

I believe your right.There was a documented one that sold for around that.I'll take one with docs.You'll need to drive to Kingsport after last year I should just buy my own property and building and charge myself. :(

That's a nice facility. Played golf there a few times. Bad weekend for me to be out of town...hafta wait until next year.

thanks for the advice Jeff... i agree the car should be profesionally inspected

Any chance you could post a picture of the block stamp? Would be interesting to see.

Wayne Guinn is the expert on JL8's!

Can anyone tell me what is on a JL8 that you could look at and say yup thats a factory JL8 car ? Is it in the vin or on the trim tag? Is it all the bolt on replaceable parts? Is it a weld? A paint dab maybe? Ride height? Tachometer? Correct date coded parts? I think I have the answer PAPERWORK real honest to goodness original paperwork from GM when the car was built.If there is another answer I'd like to hear it.

Tim,Wayne wrote a great book called Camaro-Untold Secrets.Great info on O-Dash casting codes (Remember my TRACO ZL1 O-Dash Code),Crossrams and JL8 info!! Great book to own for the true research nut. Vintage pictures,unmolested ,unrestored patina is nice too.Its hard to tell whats original when the patina is gone and can not see the consistance of the age .Whens it's restored and painted its a little harder to determine.Did you read the post on the SYC site about reproducing Protecto Plates?These guys talk about how these PP are being forged now.Pretty interesting stuff. Dan

There are some subtle things to look for but if the car is restored they could have been replaced and proving them original gets tough. JL8 cars did not have a proportioning valve like regular disc brake cars had. The front brake lines were different with a different mounting bracket. Different backing plates, 4 piston calipers like 67-68, different brake lines, rotors are bigger, different parking brake cables, etc. But no, there is nothing trim tag or VIN related to help identify it. The date range of the car is limited to when it was available.

Jeff,Correct me if I'm wrong but I was told theres seems to be more 05 May JL8 cars.More seem to be built in this month. Dan

It can't be proved because I can go get another Z assembled during those dates and add the JL8 items and you still couldn't look at the car and tell me by pointing out anything thats not bolt on to prove that it was? Am I wrong?

May seems to have the highest production but that's probably only based on found, doucmented cars. I think the 2 cars I've had were April cars.

Yes, without paperwork or original owner proof it's easy to add the JL8 setup to a regular Z28. To get all the details 100% correct takes a pretty good effort though.

the hood is steel on the car... i can probably get the upper and lower casting numbers for the intake.. can you tell by the numbers if their GM or not?

I got a resonably good look at the intake system prior to the auction.
The intake was a modified Offy (couldn't see date codes) ...
The carbs were repro's, 'correct' and 'dated' for this application (according to them) ...
Valve covers were shiny later version units.
The "CAUTION" sticker was still there ...

It is highly 'restored' :yes:
Couldn't get close enough to tag to study it.
Didn't bother to eye the 'RPO-JL8' system.
Seemed to be typical of the multi optioned 'wonder' cars.
Had the feeling if I asked any more questions I'd be asked to 'move along' ;)
All of this IMHO of course.

Of course all of this could have been corrected before the car was auctioned :rolleyes:

Tim,I think you need to talk to Wayne Guinn,email me and I'll give you his phone number.Take care and good luck,Dan

Thanks Jeff thats the answer I think he was looking for.Dan I have Waynes number thanks.

Waynes book is excellent, but I know there has been a ton of knew info discovered and/or proved since his last book. Is or will there be another book out there?

Steve ,What New stuff have you heard thru your research? Dan

Hope the price of the intake (Offy vs GM) was reflected in the price of the car since it would be THOUSANDS less with the OFFY. You can still buy the OFFY with one of three different tops (single/dual 4s or tri carbs) all for about $450. from PAWS


whats the codes off the rear? I know of 4 that were sold seperate from their cars. As far as asking to look at the rear end and being told to move on, that would have told me without a doubt the car was a made up car. That set up on the car alone is big big $$$$ and where the money from that car comes from

I wonder if Denis taked to the guy...:D

No Bruce, I wouldn't waste my time talking to that seller. I was in Reno Wednesday a couple of days before the auction and saw the car. There was a very interested gentleman there with his wife, from WA state I think. I warned him about the seller but he was still hanging around an hour or so later -- maybe he bought the car? Also, the car was on the seller's website, still there but now shown as sold: 1969
CHEVROLET CAMARO Z/28 cross ram (http://www.chevconnection.com/69camz28reggie.htm)

Dan one quick thing is when the first ones came out.

Oh.

Dan in general knew facts come out over time that are not known until a new car or part is discovered. I was just wondering if there would ever be a newer version.

Steve,PM me or call me and I'll put you in touch with Wayne Quinn and you can personally ask him.So they made changes to the JL8 over the past years,tell Wayne he's the man when it comes to JL8....Take care! Dan

Dan thanks. Pm ya.
thanks steve

http://www.guinns-engineering.com/camaro_service.htm