I'm in the process of rebuilding my motor. So far its a 1988 350 .030 over, stock polished crank and rods, and TRW forged pistons (10.5:1 with 64cc heads). The car is a 3300lb w/me '88 Camaro, 3.92 gears, 3500rpm converter and a 700R4 trans.

I'm looking to run in the 11.70-12.30 range on motor and then maybe dip into the 10's on nitrous without spinning the motor up too high. Is anyone running similar setups (weight, gears, stall) with a 350 hitting these times? If so what heads and cam are you running?

Any advice/combos appreciated.

Thanks,
Chris

Chris the BSE small block has gone a best of 10.85 in a 3100lb 84' Camaro with 4.56 gears, a 355ci engine, Solid flat tappet cam, Iron Sportsman II (bowl blended), RPM intake, 700dp with a Proform body, 1-5/8" headers, 3" exhaust with dynomax bullets (only a few hundeths faster then dynomax ultraflo large case).
10:1 compression
Glide' and a 10" continental converter.
he's used both 30x10.5 and 28x9 slicks, the 28x9's are quicker (less weight).

I personally think you should start with the chassis, start by building a nice Bullet proof 12 bolt rear, have ford style housing ends fixture welded on, use 4.10 or 4.56 gears, an Eaton posi unit, an Aluminum cover, and 1350 u-joint Yoke.
Set up the car to use a TH-350 or PG trans, then have Denny's build you a 1350 U-joint Aluminum HD driveshaft.
Buy some tube rear suspension components (adjustable uppers, tube lowers, new bushings, ect).
I'd also rebuilt the front suspension and put in Koni SPA1 drag shocks, weigh the front end on scale for a racecar (...an accurate scale, not a truck scale). and select the correct Moroso springs.

then move onto the engine and drivetrain.


If you're interested i have all the specs on the engine and trans.

Forgot to mention this is a street car. Not a daily driver but it'll be driven about 3 times a week and 40 minutes to the track and back. I just put the 3.92 rear in the car its a Dana 44 so I think it'll handle the abuse. The 700R4's overdrive is also very nice but when it blows I think I'll be replacing it with a TH350. A Powerglide would be cool but I don't think it'd work out too well with street driving. Also don't PG's work better in cars under 3000lbs?

The suspension and exhaust is pretty much good to go. I'm just stuck on what heads and cam to go with. I'm looking for a happy medium between N/A performance and nitrous. I'm going to be spraying 150-200 shot.

Thanks,
Chris

Chris, we have Two BSE small blocks running Atco and Englishtown, Both the drivers started originally using the car as a street strip ride, then took them off the street later.

Want to see them in person?

Wow I didnt realize how close you are. I'd definately like to check out these cars but 10.80's on motor is much more than I'm hoping for with my car. I'd be "gitty" if I ever ran 10.80's on nitrous let alone motor.

Its basically a pretty mild combo, just well tuned.
Next weekend they're heading to ethier Englishtown or Atco.
E-mail me, we'll discuss this further.
And i'll send you all the specs.

CNC,
I'd like to know the specs of those motors if you wouldn't mind.

matt, i'll send you an e-mail.

Brian, you're being aweful secretive for one who spent a lot of time complaining about how others wouldn't share combos . . .

I alrady know the BSE SBC cam specs, so I'm not asking --- it was published on the net and frankly IMO its too radical for street use. A 'glide with a 5000 stall just ain't my idea of a good time cruising ;)

Just suggesting that if you want to talk about something in a public forum you should be prepared to keep it public. Its like switching to a foreign language in the middle of a multi-person conversation so a couple people can't understand. graemlins/sad.gif Kind of rude.

On to the subject at hand . . .

Chris I like your chassis setup so far. IMO you might want to watch how much cam you go with since you have the overdrive --- I think you can still go fairly stout with the 3500 converter and 3.92 gears, I'd just keep it within reason.

I run a street 383 combo that hit 11.9's @ 112 mph last season and am hoping for a couple 11.7 passes this year. That is with 3.55 gears and a 3500 stall. Here's what I ran that might work well on your slightly smaller 350:

Trick Flow 23* heads - 64cc chambers, 195cc intake runners.
Comp 282s solid FT cam 282 advertised duration, 236* @ 050 lift .525 lift (1.6 rockers)
Victor Jr intake (the RPM Air Gap would suit you better with the OD trans IMO)
Speed Demon 750 carb
Hedman 1-3/4" headers, 2-1/2" Flowmaster exhaust

Instead of the Comp 282s, they now have an XS282s which has more agressive lobes and should make more power than the older Magnum cams with about the same driveability.

Hope this helps.

CNC,
I have a 355 combo that runs 12.47@109.7 in 3340lbs S15 with a 282hr and 3.42 gears a 2500 stall that I drive to Etown Atco and Island, and for now is my daily driver (wife wreck her ricer so she drives my SSEi Bonn) ;)
Randy,
P.S. I have shorty header that is probaly takinq a way horsepower

Eric,
Me and Ed deal with enough crap from people who doubt the big block BSE, He asked me not to put the BSE small block specs on the forums.
i'm not putting them on this board.
If you really NEED the specs i'll send them too you, but i'm also going to ask you NOT to post them.

I havent withheld them from anyone who has e-mailed me, if they really need em, then i'll send them to them via E-mail.
If i do have a problem where i suspect someone wants the specs with the only reason being to post them, they wont get em.

Its not like i'm holding back Warren Johnson's 500ci PS plans, i just dont want to deal with any more debates about the "streetablity" of it, or the naysayers or the others just looking to **** me off.

Its NOT a 5000stall, its a 10" converter.
You know how a 10" converter is, you have a 10" Coan in yours, 40Coupe drives a 10" converter, plenty of guys drive 10" converters on the street, As well many drive tight 8" Converters on the street.
I know 1st hand its not too radical, Rick drove the car to the track and back for many years prior to buying a trailer.
Its NOT a daily driver and its not a cruiser, but it IS a serious street/strip ride. I inform everyone who asks about it just what it is, its for serious street/strip use and tooling around, thats all. If your determined enough to daily drive it, fine with me.
Many board members drive cars every day with cams that are more radical then the BSE small block cam.

CNC I'd also now like to know the specs of this motor. If you don't mind ...chris255@earthlink.net

you have mail.

CNC:
I've got bits and pieces of it but not the complete listing so if you don't mind emailing me a copy. tnx

Jeff

86Camaro@eartlink.net

[ 03-03-2003, 03:59 PM: Message edited by: 86 Camaro ]

Hey camaroNOTcamero.....

Seems like everytime I enter a topic your in there cryin' and complaining about somebody or some comment. Everybody has there own opinion.

Just curios, with all the advice and information you give out, what is your best time??? :rolleyes: Seems like you should be in the 7's.

EA73Z,

I just saw where you are from Mishawaka. I lived up in South Bend on east Lincolnway for about a year when I got transfered up there working for APGreen Refractories.. Small world.. They had a small Refratories Gunning Installation office on Fur, (or Fur?), Street until I closed it and moved it back to Mexico, MO back in '85..

BTW, CNC, please e-mail me the combination too. I had a partial list of it but my machine had to get dumped a while back and I lost what I had!!

Thanks in advance.. pdq67

PS., who was the guy up there in the area that rebuilt the old Vette Rochester mechanical fuel injection units???

Paul,
You got it.

EA73Z **** you.

CNC - If you want your posting privilages back you're going to have to send me an e-mail! Everyone here has put up with your BS for a while and I've kept telling myself you're a nice kid but you've ended your last post here with "**** you"

Administrator

Eric, I tend to think along the same lines as you,but I respect others opinions also. I have been thinking long and hard about a good combo for a street/ strip camaro and this is what I have come up with. SBC 355ci
TRW Piston#2490
Speed-Pro rings
Dart Sportsman II heads, pocket ported
10.5:1 compression
Crane solid #110921 - 244/255 @ .050 .518/.536 lift. 106LCA
Performer RPM intake
1-3/4" headers
950HP carb
MSD Ignition .

graemlins/clonk.gif

[ 03-04-2003, 05:56 PM: Message edited by: DjD ]

Powerofone,

Sounds kinda familiar ;) Except you have too much carb. A 750 Holley DP carb or maybe a Holley 830 annular would work if this will be a strip only car. The 1-3/4" headers may work but I think that combo was intended to have 1-5/8" headers too.

Anyway, its not a street combo IMO. The 106 LSA is what makes it "not a street combo". The engine will have a narrow RPM range and will have difficulty idling in traffic.

What about the Comp XS282s instead? It has a 110* LSA and is a little less agressive, it would work best with 10:1 compression --- not sure how you get 10.5:1 with that TRW piston and 64cc heads (I thought it would be 10.0:1, maybe 10.2-10.3:1 with a tight quench).

There are lots of other combos out there that folks have run on the street with good results. I used to run one that was nearly identical to the one mentioned above except I used the Comp 280H cam. It was fairly streetable and I actually drove it across the country.

69RS/SS350

I'll second that. He's one of the main reasons I hardly ever post anymore, graemlins/sad.gif . Why offer a suggestion when someone has the answers to everything? :rolleyes:

well heres my .oooooooooo2 cents hehe, when i called and talked to comp cams, they recommmended the xe274s grind over the 282s becuase it has a larger exhaust duration and i little more lift, and was ground with 'new technology' so the lobe ramps are more aggressive, and he said hands down this is a much better cam, it cost me like 20bucks more though i think :( . wanna talk about an arse rapin, i paid 150bucks for some lifters back when the shortage was goin insane. you do what you gotta do :D

heck pick apart my cam recommendation i dont care smile.gif

I don't want this to snowball into more than it has to be!! In other words play nice!! :mad:

Administrator!!

[ 03-04-2003, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: DjD ]

I've read through the different posts, seen the snowball fights, and just had to add my $.02. I still have one question who gets to define what is "streetable"? I've read through the BSE 350 specs and if the question is could you drive it on the street? I believe you could. Would it be as "streetable" as a 2002 camaro, no. It sure is alot more "streetable" than the configurations you see in the "fastest 'Street Car' shoot outs". Given the rear end gearing, I don't think I'd want it as my daily driver though. I tried that and actually survived for a year but I was seventeen then. Believe me, 17 year olds will put up with alot more than us middle agers (ouch that was hard to say). So from my standpoint each of us has a different viewpoint and given the 1/4 mile times and with the components in the BSE350, I think CNC has done a pretty good job putting together a combination that works. It's a good starting point to either bump up or down based upon your own preferences of "streetablility". graemlins/beers.gif

BSE is not CNC's combination. He got it via e-mail just like he's giving it out. The best thing he has going for him is the person he has as a mentor. If he spent less time sharing here and more time rubbing elbows in the pits and actually getting his car down the track so he has some real bragging rights he'd run into a lot less flack from some of the folks here and on the chevelle site.

Let's all move along now! What was the topic of this thread again?

Ive said this before and ill say it again....my difinition of streetability is a comprimise of comfort for performance, how much your willing to comprimise is up to you, streetability is a state of mind. I dont want anyone to take this the wrong way but i see that alot of guys here dont like to run very big cams and are very concerened with gobs of torque and cubic inches. Wich is completely fine, they know what streetability means to them. Then i personally know somone with a 63 chevy II that runs Brodix Track 1 215 heads, Super victor a 312/268/.575/108 cam on a 350 with 10.6:1 compression. It runs GREAT {and there will be disagreement because of the lack of DCR but trust me it runs GREAT} but most people wouldnt concider it streetable. Ive personally driven it and it drives great, a little tricky with the clutch but you get used to it. He loves it and dosent miss a cruise around here or anywhere in our part of the state, and its more reliable than most modern cars. It dosent get any hotter than 170 ever, it gets 14 mpg on the highway, and is faster than anything ive ever been in, oh thats with a 3.70 gear. Now thats not streetable is it??? I respect the fact that some people like a nice idle, modearte noise and all the stuff that goes with it but others like alot of noise, and going as fast as they can, and you have to respect that too. If everyone had that same "streetable" motor combo this hobby would be no fun. I personally believe that streetablity is a state of mind, a personal choice, not what hotrod tells you.
Now if i could get these vital stats of this BSE small block ill find out for myself if i think its streetable. And please dont think im trying to stir the shizzle, im just getting my views out on the streetable debate. smile.gif
Will somone please send me the BSE stats...
Wahawk065@mchsi.com thanks....Nick

Ah, come on Dennis, please reconsider not banning CNC... pdq67

Originally posted by pdq67:
Ah, come on Dennis, please reconsider not banning CNC... pdq67 Another one that types more than he reads!! I posted this in the other thread!!

Originally posted by DjD:
The last thing I want is to remove anyone from posting in the forums. That said, CNC is not banned from the site. He has lost his posting privilege until he and I sort a couple things out.

Too many threads have been closed on his account recently. I'm hoping he and I can see eye to eye in short order and put all this behind us! Novaguy - you're to new around here to expect
"trust me" to fly when you are talking to guys with 10 and 11 sec combos. I'm not doubting you but what are your credintials?

Now maybe I should just close this one too if nobody wants to talk about proven combos!!

graemlins/boring.gif

Dennis, you are doing a good job and I'm behind you. When people keep getting into "shouting matches" over things they have never tried or done you have to do something.

Back to combos and what is streetable.

Novaguy, its not that anyone is afraid of running big cams, its just that a lot of folks here at this site have a lot of collective experience running all kinds of combos from mild to wild. There are more than enough stories that back up the "medium cam" max cubes theory. Bigger is not always better, especially when talking about street cams.

Joe Sherman just won the Engine Masters Challenge with a 365 cid Chevy engine (4.040" bore x 3.562" stroke) that made over 600 HP at 6500 RPM using a cam with only 282* advertised duration, 234* duration @ 050" lift, .565" lift on a 108 LSA. But he won because of average HP between 2500 and 6500 RPM not because of his peak number.

As for the BSE combo - CNC has nothing to do with it other than he is a cult follower of the guy that built it. The reason I believe it is not truly streetable is because the combo uses a 5000 stall, powerglide transmission, 4.56 gears and a cam with a very peaky 106* LSA.

An engine wins at the track (or God forbid on the street) with average HP throughout the band the engine races in, chase peak HP and Desktop Dyno numbers all day, but Torque and cubes rule on the street.

If any of you guys want to use your HUGE 260* @ 050 cams in a low compression 350 go for it. Then meet me at the track and we'll see which is faster . . . there won't be any doubt which is more streetable. ;)

Right Dennis, but I figure stopping posting IS taking away the previlege to communicate here, which I kinda call, "banning", that's all.

And thx for hopefully working out the diff's between you and CNC. I know, we tend ta get carried away with our passions...

BTW, EA73Z, did you know of the guy that rebuilt the Rochester F.I. units up in the area years ago??

I'm outta here until later.... Carry-on... pdq67

Hey Chris, quite a response from a simple legitimate question, eh!
I had to go back to the beginning to see what the actual question was.
Well I can't answer via the times as I havn't delt with my traction (or loss of traction)
issue yet, but I have the dyno #'s to comment off of.
I ran a simular short block 30 over 350 for 355. I had the block machined by a very reliable shop, including decking and boring off of the crank centerline & torque plate finish honing bla bla bla. I have 64cc Edelbrock Performer RPM alum heads (I feel these are a slightly underrated head) which I feel for my wants & needs are the next best things to AFR's. I chose them over the AFR because of the short runners for the torque and they were tried and true in my crowd. I am running the CC 280H and am very pleased with it. Peak #'s were only 406hp & 410tq but a really nice wide band. It's not hard to get higher peak numbers but usually the bands (or curves) are quite shorter. The nice thing about this combo is tons of power @ 3000 and lots of vacume to run the accessories safely. This combo is smother running then a lot of milder combos and I think it's due to the good machine work and the balancing of the rotating assembly. We ran it with a g-tec and only ran 13.27 @ 109 but with street tires up in smoke completely through 1st & 1/2 way through 2nd. 4.10's with 3000 holeshot in a 400 trans in a 68 camaro with factory springs & shocks and no frame connectors yet.
Oh ya Air gap intake 750 Street Avenger and Pertronics pack in the dist.
Sorry for the length of reply I must have happy fingers.
PS {I went to school back in late 70's with a couple of guys that drove 10 sec Camaros to high school thinking they were streetable while my father was under the impression my bone stock 80 Z28 should not ever have been allowed to be produced for public transportation, so I guess the streetable issue is a state of mind when it comes down to it. I guess the dept. of highways may look at it a little differently.} Ta Ta for now. - Barry

Hey Chris, me again, just for the record my actual comp ratio is 10.32 with 39 thou quench and I also have Promagnum roller rockers and the smallest and lightest (just to be able to spin it up to speed a bit quicker) vibration damper I could get that was sfi approved. I have frame connectors, adj shocks waiting to go on and am planning on getting a tall set of Nitto drag radials, my street tires are pretty low profile now. I plan on doing a test on each one as they are added to the car, hopefully I will sneak into the low 12's and maybe high 11's with it. - Barry