I think i want to buy a new mustang and just give up on the camaro. I can't believe those words just came off my fingertips :confused: I just found out today after studying the EPW parts list that came from the builder of my crate (see signature) that the builder put an early model rotating assembly in a brand new 1 pc rear main seal block. How could a professional builder make this kind of mistake. His web page says he personally assembles and inspects every motor. It was fired up and the cam was broke in prior to shipping. Wouldn't it be obvious at that point? The shudder and massive oil leak from the rear of the motor are obviouslly the result of this. The builder has changed locations and shops 2 times in less than a year and the only recourse i have is to send this motor back to him and trust him to build me another one? I'm out over 1,000 for the install on this motor and i hope that after driving it almost 5 miles with my brand new 200r4 that i haven't caused any further damage. I really need some sound advice and If anyone could help me through this it would be much appreciated. Man, I've wanted a 69 for over 25 years now and when i finally get one a professional does this to me i just can't express how dissapointed i am. Dennis please let his name be known nobody should ever have this happen to them not even the ford boys :rolleyes:

I think you have a few options....Send the motor back to the builder, have him fix it, and have your lawyer send him a bill for all your unnecessary expenses. Now i want to know who charged you a thousand dollars to put in a motor??? Its not that hard to install a motor. Also if you didnt want to send it back to the "motor builder" then fix it yourself. You may be better off doing it that way and then sending him a bill for all the unnecessary expences. Either way...send this guy a bill. And please dont take this the wrong way but this is the main reason to learn to build your own motor. Saves you money, and you know its done right. Sorry to hear about that, it must be very dissapointing but dont give up on it. I had a brand new motor blow up on me last year after a brand new stainless steel valve let loose at 3000rpm for no aparent reason.

um several manufacturers make adapters for putting the 2pc crank in a 1pc block (moroso for instance) and they work very well
I would think a "pro" builder would be very aware of the difference between the two
you live in America . . . we like to sue here . . . a lot

Send me his name and any numbers you have for his shop as well as the web site in an e-mail. I know you said you couldn't get back in touch with them in your other thread. I'll do some digging and see if I can come up with anything.

Check with the shipping company and see if they have any contact info, they had to leave a trail...

I just read your other post. Is this guy willing to make thinks right?

Dennis, this guy has promised so many things i can't believe a word anymore. The motor still doesn't have the waterpump or the coil he shows on my reciept and he constantly changed parts on me. He would say was using an air gap and then state the professional products version of an air gap is better so i'm using those now... no big deal, but it's not what we orinally agreed to. I upgraded the motor to have dart pro 1 heads (aluminum) and he changed them to pro action. the parts were always a moving target. I finally after months and a few phone calls got to see the parts list from EPW which had my name as the P.O. Number and it was dated 2 months after he said he had built the short block. It just goes on and on. I will e-mail you his info and let you look over his tactics.

Fast] I am confused why he would order a new scat 2 pc crank to put in a new motor casting and then buy an adapter to make it do what it should originally puchased to do. Is there a cost savings or performance benefit to building it like that?

Nova 73 As for building my own motor... well quite frankly i didn't feel qualified to build one, apparently i'm not alone, there seems to be a pretty helthy crate motor market. Now i think i need a real machinist to assess the damage. But i should reconsider the idea. I build multi-million dollar projects as a contractor I guess i could learn to wrench. My install was more than just a pick and pull (see photos on my homepage link). I really would rather drive my car than fix it... so i hired somoene to fix it for me, but that well is running dry so i guess its time to learn. Thanks guys for letting me vent i just a rookie going through the learning curve graemlins/clonk.gif

Geeeeeez. A 2 piece rotating assembly in a 1 piece block? It seems to me that there would be just a little problem getting a two piece rear main seal into a one piece block :rolleyes: Are you sure that is what happened?

Maybe I should get into this crate engine business :rolleyes: anyone want a motor built?

Just curious, but was there any particular reason you chose an engine built in OKC over something a bit more local? I mean, there is probably a million engine builders in CA alone...seems like an awful lot of trouble and expense even if everything does go right.

there are a lot of engines running around out there with 2 piece seal cranks in one piece seal blocks- pretty much any LT1 383 Camaro out there more than a couple years old has that setup, due to one piece rear seal 3.75 stroke cranks not being cheap and available at the time. why do you think Centerforce made a special flywheel for old school 2 piece seal cranks to hook up to the stock clutch setup used on the T56? surely not for the "old car" market. it just happened to work nice for T56 swaps into older cars.

Travis, i chose the builder based on pricing vs. product and the fact he claimed to build several hundred crates a year. This was a completley new motor/block & rotating assembly etc... Shipping was a little bit more but it offset the savings. I am pretty sure the repairs will be local, as the warranty is a joke and the thought of this guy having my motor for another 6 months doesn't sound too appealing.
Novaderrik, i now understand that you can put a 2 piece seal in a 1 piece seal block. But given the fact that this rotating assembly was purchased off the shelf new from a scat wholesaler the part # is even followed by the word early as in model. It seems like it would be more trouble than it was worth to not just use the right part. I honestly think this guy had someone put this block together with a crank for an early model block and no kit to adapt it. I have never installed a crank so i don't know how obvious this would be. It is interesting that this engine package from the builder was bought at EPW a national parts wherehouse and every part my motor came with is on it right down to the retainers on the valves. I don't see any kit or adapter to make the crank conversion. Given that this motor vibrated pretty hard on intial fire up (thought it was the new mounts and cam)and spewed a 1/2 qt. of oil in less than 5 miles it sounds like i never got that extra part on the crank. :confused:

dc, (Name please ???)
Just curious, what did you pay for this engine ? Fixing the crank seal problem is not a big deal, but that still does not explain the vibration ? Did you get a flywheel with the engine ? If so it should have been a balanced assembly and should not vibrate. The seal has no bearing on vibration. As mauch as I hate to say it, it would probably be best to have the original builder do the repairs :(
Nova guy....a lot of guys on this site only build one car in a lifetime and have no desire to go through the learning process to build thier own engine. I dont think that should be held against anyone. Unfortunately it puts them at a disadvantage when dealing with certain engine builders. The one thing that I do not understand is why you guys do not put your foot down and INSIST on getting what was originally agrred on ???????????? If you were supposed to get Dart heads..you should have Dart heads. The only reason the guy used the other ones is because they are cheaper .. period. Same with the intake etc.
DC, I see that you are a contractor...If you were building a house and ordered Pella windows, then went to pick them up and they tried to pawn off some no-name new brand windows on you for the same price...would you take them ? I dont think so, so why do you guys accept this type of crap from engine builders.
Sorry for the rant, these types of guys make me turn red because of the reputation they have given our industry, but some of it is the consumers fault also, and I wonder how many times it is because you are trying to get the best price ?
Hope you get it straight without a lot of hassles.

Bill K , I was interested in talking/writing at you about your machine shop but your e-mail address from the directory doesn't seem to work, could you possibly look me up and drop me a line?

Bill K, my name is Dave, you are right about the pella windows analogy, but i must admit that i tried to research heads and it seemed overwhelming. Then i had the builder tell me that the (pro action) were flowing better... I know don't get people started on the flow numbers and pro actions, but anyway it seemed reasonable at the time. So i tried to trust the professional in his field, and I allowed him to to alter a few items. After the final build became a moving target i decided to get the parts nailed down via the build list from EPW and this is where i see the apparent conflict with a early model crank and a supposedly new block. I will be checking out the casting numbers immediately due to the fact everything else has been smoke and mirrors. I have decide to have a local machine shop take a look at the work because i just don't feel i will ever see this motor againg if it leaves my sight. Given that the original builder has changed numbers and locations several times my gut says to not let it go back. The balancer had been drilled and the flywheel has been weighted and the builder has offered to replace them a new set, but if they aren't balanced on the crank at the same time as the crank is that even legitimate?
- Dave