Everyone and anyone:

Just finishing up the rear frame on my car. It's a poly bushed 4 link with a panhard bar setup. Very similar to the Mark Steilow rear project accept the 4-bars are located inboard of the frame (not using stock spring locations for lower bars).

Here is question: I had a chassis builder visit my shop last night. He is well known and builds alot of cars here in Arizona. When he saw the ford rear housing with the panhard bracket welded off the back, he said "what is this for"? I explained that it was for the panhard bar. He said, that's a death trap waiting to happen. He felt the rear moves in an arch that the panhard couldn't possible accomodate, that the suspension would "bind". Said if I went to track and got a little sideways, the car would rock back and forth in a dangerous manner.

Does anyone here have panhard experience. I'm was under the impression that the new camaros have a similar setup. Art Morrison pushed panhard for street cars, and many other chassis shops. I could switch to the track locator, but many thought that wouldn't be fun on street car....

when i went to buy my rear suspension parts from S&W, the one question asked was if the car will see a lot of street duty and would see a lot of curved roads. I told them no and asked why. they said if your car is going to be on the strip, go with a track bar. this will keep the rear centered and will have up and down movement. then he said for steet purpose, the panhard bar should be used to allow the car to have movement from side to side.
other then that, would a lot of chassis shops install panhard bars if they were dangerous? i'm not saying the guy is wrong, but i'd be interested in a answer also.
bruce

Bruce,

Sounds like you need the same answer I'm looking for. Panhards are not a new concept. I guess I would like to feel better that I'm designing this correctly for a "street" car. I suspect my chassis builder is a little bias towards full competition race cars. In that case, he is absolutley right. Then I wouldn't put urethane bushings in either. If you have any luck getting some professional input on this, let me know, much appreciated.

There is a good discussion going on at protouring.com right now. It's over my head, but maybe will help you out?
http://pub59.ezboard.com/fprotouringgmachinesfrm4.showMessage?topicID=215.t opic

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Bret Copsey
'68 Camaro base coupe
'92 Caprice wagon
'98 Malibu

The way it was explained to me was that the
panhard bar was for cars that will be street
driven for cornering reasons, but would bind
and,or limit chassis adjustment on a drag car.
Please bear in mind that I am not a chassis
professional, this is just what was explained
to me by the shop that built my chassis.
We used the track finder as it is basically
a drag car.

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'86 Firebird,ladder bar
suspension,9 inch ford w/4.56,10 point,440 bbc,
400 manual valve/brake.

'86 3/4 ton 4 wd 454/400 turbo

Lots of good rear chassis info on that thread!
I never heard it explained that well...I was always told that the track bar was for the strip and the panhard bar was for the street...and that narrow frame rails on a prostreet type car limited the use of a panhard bar and that's why You don't see too many of those setups...
Now after reading all that over there.....hmmmmm....Thanks for the link Bret!

AFCO has some information on panhard bars in their technical papers:
http://www.rpmnet.com/techart/index.shtml

most stock cars (the race car type) have a panhard bar setup of some sort. watch a Winston Cup race, and when they say "he did a track bar adjustment", that's what they are talking about.
seems like a bulletproof setup if done properly, but causes the rear to swing side to side in an arc as the suspension goes up and down. using the longest bar you can possibly get in there and mounting it perfectly level at ride height would minimize this.
there are a lot of stock type vehicles with a panhard- 82 and newer Camaros and Firebirds, Monza's and Vega's, old Chevy trucks with coil spring rear suspension, late 60's Impala's...the list goes on and on.
if it didn't work all that well, it wouldn't have been used on so many cars.

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1971 Nova(looks like 69 camaro from underneath!)
355sb, vortec heads, HOT cam,T-10 tranny, 3.70 gears 16X8" IROC wheels. 12" Corvette brakes on the way.
see pics here http://community.webshots.com/user/novaderrik

Has anybody checked with David Pozzi on this question? I know he's listed for brakes an suspension, but he's just gotta know this one

Joebar

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68 Camaro 502/502 w/3.73
70 Monte Carlo 400 T400

Your in the right direction for a street set up. The panhard is the only way to go.
Now did your chassis friend see something out of the ordinary with your panhard set up.
Like was it parallel with the rear? Could it get in a bind with rear going up or down? Maybe this is what he was looking at. And then again he might just be arrogant, and think that your basic home builder could not accomplish this feat..