: stock vs. aftermarket...
Dec 12th, 99, 05:39 AM
thinking about replacing my stock cast intake and the qjet 750/780? cfm on my 396/350 hp car for diveablity sake. i am going to replace my stock point distrubitor with an msd unit (8361) to match the msd 6al box and coil. my ? is, just how much of an increase in performance/drivablity would i see? do you think i should just go with the dist. first and see how i like it before spending the extra $450 for intake and carb (thinking about an edelbroke performer carb and rpm performer intake). i have oval port heads with minor work done to them and a comp cam 280 h series cam (DURATION AT .050 230 230 - GROSS VALVE LIFT .520 .520 - LOBE LIFT .3063 .3063). do you think the stock intake and carb (if adjusted properly) will be ok and i am just wanting to spend some money needlessly or will the new carb and intake make a big difference. i'm getting a lot of different views on this, so i thought i would ask one more time.
p.s. i would really love to go to a fuel injection system on this car, any chance of the prices coming down over the next couple of years? i just can't justify the $2000 cost right now.
Dec 13th, 99, 06:50 AM
If your distibutor is working properly now I doubt you'll see a huge difference in performance by installing an MSD unit. The intake and carb swap will be much more noticeable - especially if you have headers (which with a 280 cam I trust you already have).
Dec 13th, 99, 07:18 AM
I would go with a 750 vac. secondary Holley carburetor rather than the Edelbrock. The Holley is easier to tune. Yes, it is messy to change the jets, but a monkey could do it. I have heard it is a pain in the butt dealing with the Carter metering rod system. Also, Holleys used to leak, but new gasket technologies have eliminated that. I don't have a problem with mine (2 years old).
You are on the money with the Performer RPM. If you really want to notice an improvement, you should get headers if you dont already have them.
After you get everything hooked up, I would highly recommend finding a chassis dyno to tune the car, although the carb should be relatively close out of the box. I spent $180 for 3 hours of dyno time and it was worth every dime. Also, you won't have to guess how much horsepower you make, you will know.
Dec 16th, 99, 08:44 AM
think about the efi. Holley has a system for under $1300. It's a 700 CFM 4 barrel TBI, Projection 4Di. If driveability is your goal, and you do computers, it's a good choice. See my discussion with Greg above (any Holley mpi users?)
Dec 16th, 99, 09:36 AM
Holley easier to tune that a Edelbrock?, never heard that before except from Holley. Big post about this very subject on the Chevelle page. May be worth checking out. I never had much luck with the Holleys the ten or so years I used them. I guess I dealt with them because everybody loves to say they have a Holley. I'm not scared of carbs anymore since getting the Edelbrock. Easiest carb I ever worked on. So simple I feel like I'm forgetting steps. I bought the calibration kit and I feel like I can do anything with this thing. Its ok to love Holley and I did for years even though I realize now I hate them as far as working on them. Just don't put one down until you have both. Life really can be good without a Holley. Anyone want to buy a box of Holley carbs? BTW I'll pull my car in the garage and change the metering rods in 10 minutes start to finish with no need to cleanup at the end. Its not Carter, its Edelbrock. Well yes its Carter but not the same Carters of years ago. Just like a new Holley isn't the same as years ago. Improvements have been made by both, I just feel the Edelbrock went in a more user friendly direction rather than Holley making it more pretty and living on their backround. Yes I do expect some hatred back for this. But I can take it, I won't call you names. I'm looking foward to the Holley people giving me a rash of #$^#@. But thats how the facts come out, I am interested in more opinions. I do think the Holley is better looking. There you go, one for the Holley guys
Dec 16th, 99, 09:54 AM
Mike, I believe it's the latest issue of hotrod or car craft. They have a good article regarding fuel injection vs carburation. My 2 cents worth regarding Holley/Carter? I've owned both and worked on both. Once you understand the carter system, they work fantastic for street cars. If I was racing, the Holley would be carb of choice. 750cfm should be plenty for carb. The manifold is a good choice, but not sure how much increase you'll see in performance.
Have you ever tinkered with the advance curve in your point type distributor? If not, they usually came from the factory with full advance not coming in until way after you need it. The MSD 8361 is a good distributor. With it, you'll be able to tune in an advance curve that will more match your aftermarket add on's. You will notice a nice improvement in engine response! I have mine set at a total of 38 degrees coming in at 2800 rpm.
Dec 16th, 99, 09:57 AM
Good call. I've been sitting on the fence for the last few weeks trying to decide which way to go for a new carb. I posted a week or so ago on the same topic and I got really good responses from everybody. None quite as succinct as you just put it though... Makes me want to go buy an Edelbrock right now. http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif
1969 Z28, 406SB
Dec 16th, 99, 10:56 AM
Shawn I was in the same boat as you when I decided. I didn't know if I should get another Holley or try one of those "new wierd Edelbrock things". I had butterfly's in my stomach ordering a Edelbrock which I knew nothing about after having Holleys all my life. I am sooo glad I did. The only Holley I'll touch now is the girl down the street named Holley. Hope my wife's not reading this
Dec 17th, 99, 06:01 AM
I agree, Edelbrock is my #1 choice as far as affordablity, dependability and for looks. I work for Checker Auto in Great Falls MT. I have sold Edelbrocks to Holleys at a rate of maybe 25-30 Edelbrocks to one Holley, and they are about the same price. Once I start to tell people how to set the floats on the Holley they are more inclined to go with the Edelbrock. Granted I have only sold a few of the meter kits (one to myself), which says a lot for bolt on and go applications. I have never had to take back an Edelbrock due to performance problems. Once had to take one back for a cracked base plate, a mistake of over torqueing. I have a complete RPM power package on my 327 and and love it, recommend it and endorse it. The aluminum heads are worth every dollar. Edelbrock is the way to go, hands down.
Dec 17th, 99, 10:34 AM
additional two cents worth...
Holleys allow a much finer tuning through the four corner idle system and by having a jet for each venturi. This allows you to tune each corner of the engine, as manifolds and heads generally don'f flow equally among the corners.
That said, I doubt it would make that much of a difference on a mild street engine (say around 1 hp per cubic inch). I can't disagree that the Edelbrock might make a better street carb.
I disagree with 68SS396 that all Holley has done is pretty-up the new models. The new HP series has significant upgrades from the standard Holley carb...but the $%#@ things cost $600. Who do these guys think they are?
That's like Microsoft selling us Win 95 with all of the bugs and then making us pay another $100 to buy Win 98 with the bugs fixed.
Bottom line... I think it depends on how much power your engine makes. If you can use an out-of-the-box carb and make minor changes to get the tuning right (applies to both Holleys and Edelbrock), then go for it. If your making big numbers, you need the flexibility of a Holley.
Dec 17th, 99, 10:52 AM
Edelbrock....good choice.... Holley good name...old design but still good. Here is a twist...keep your current set up, freshen it up and add No2 for a couple of hundred bucks and a about 100 hp for an entry level set up or spend just about $2000 and put an under the hood supercharger on it for about +150 hp at normal boost levels.