:hurray:I just recieved my paper work from GM of Canada on my next 69Z28 project.Before all I had was bits n pieces. I was just woundering how accurate is the option sheets? Is there any history or proof of options that have not been included on GM of Canada option sheet that would of been on the car new or is Gm of Canada always dead on? Whats your experience Thanks Team Camaro

99 %

99 %
Ditto.

capt

I would like team camaros 2 cents worth. Would you at the time of resto. Add options? For value and looks sake. This car did not come with a radio or tach no counsel or gauge package according to gm of canada, would you add them or not? Or because it's so rare to have these deleted is it going to be worth more stock and the right thing to do.

What options are on the car?

Rs,cowlinduction.endura bumper vinly top. The exterior is option great but it's like the person or dealer wanted show on the outside but not in the inside just the basic

Me, I would never add a console to it. It's nice to be different....
Tach and radio - those are your call and easy to change back....

As far as the radio wasn't an AM radio standard equipment and if so would not show on the option list ? If the car was ordered without a radio I would think the radio delete option would be listed. If I'm correct on this then making the car exactly as it came from the factory would mean you'll want to install an AM radio.

Totally agree with Kurt. and george Z is 99 % I know of only 1 or 2 ocassions where an option was missed ( 1 option on a +/- 30 option car) and was later corrected

Totally agree with Kurt. and george Z is 99 % I know of only 1 or 2 ocassions where an option was missed ( 1 option on a +/- 30 option car) and was later corrected



damn those Canadiens are good!! :beers:

No radio was standard. Any radio was an option.

So Kurt your saying if the option sheet from GM does not mention anything about a radio that means the car left the factory with no radio?
Some AM radios were installed by the dealer then?

Doubtful that the dealer wanted the hassle and expense of installing a radio. (cut for antenna, thread antenna wire, wire and install radio, etc. I would guess most non-radio cars were ordered that way by the purchaser, rather than being dealer ordered for stock.

Canadian "documentation" is becoming a problem.

Cars that no longer exist are being re-created using the info. In the old days they sent you a copy of the page your car was on along with 19 others. I have a few of these pages but several people have all of of them. Z/28s, COPOs, L78 converts-you name it. All the info you could want, even key numbers.

Parts are available, body and VIN tag repros can be had, ebay has lots of 1st gen project cars. I have never liked the so-called Canadian documentation. If that is all the car has better do lots of checking.

It's like anything, you have to do your homework before you buy.In my case I have no ? of it's history. My ? is regards to the accuracy of GM of Canada and if anything that they might have missed and it sounds like it's bullit proof. I think the constant flow of reproduced doc. like POP and buildsheets are still the biggest threat to the hobby.

I think the boys at the G.M. Historical Info ...would find this intresting. In this "sport" must we all think like everything is a fraud? I am sure that there is as many mistakes in orig P.O.P ,build sheets,orig motor stamp,etc. BUT I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF "FRAUDS with the docs,Maybe ommisions but never add ons. Just my two cents.
P.S. Most of us want to have nice cars and we dont want to get "caught up" in numbers,docs,Barett Jackson...cause at the end of the day its about how much money...and who makes the best tag or stamps. WES

Canadian "documentation" is becoming a problem.

Cars that no longer exist are being re-created using the info. In the old days they sent you a copy of the page your car was on along with 19 others. I have a few of these pages but several people have all of of them. Z/28s, COPOs, L78 converts-you name it. All the info you could want, even key numbers.

Parts are available, body and VIN tag repros can be had, ebay has lots of 1st gen project cars. I have never liked the so-called Canadian documentation. If that is all the car has better do lots of checking.

Its not the Canadian documentation thats the problem. Its how people choose to use or abuse it. Personally, I never give out any information on a car with Canadian docs.

Its not the Canadian documentation thats the problem. Its how people choose to use or abuse it. Personally, I never give out any information on a car with Canadian docs.

Why? Giving out info on a car that exists is no big deal. No difference than giving out window sticker info on US car.
It's the info on the cars that don't exist that's a problem....

Why? Giving out info on a car that exists is no big deal. No difference than giving out window sticker info on US car.
It's the info on the cars that don't exist that's a problem....

I think you are dead wrong on this one. Giving out info on an existing car espesially if its substansial { ie JL8 Z or COPO} and Canadian documented, may only pave the way for anyone out there that is so inclined to build an identical car using the GM docs as a framework build sheet. Scam the paperwork...... I know it goes on , so do you. The best way to keep known real cars "real" is to keep that info out of the public limelite.

Huh??? Exactly how??
And what about all the paperwork that's out there on the ZL1's and COPOs and Z28s (say like in Camaro books and in ebay ads). Exactly what would be different between that and the Canadian docs?
If this is such a problem, why don't we hear about it?

Sorry, I think you're barking up the wrong tree here. The microfiche is a problem (info on the cars that don't exist), but not the docs on an existing car....

The Canadian built and documented Chevelle I have also has ALL the rpo codes on the trim tag as well for all to see. Did the Camaros receive the same info on their trim tags ??

no camaros did not only canadian built cars had that

no camaros did not only canadian built cars had that

Isn't that what we are discussing here.....:confused: Canadian built Camaros.....
I know the US built cars didn't have the rpo's on the TT. My question was, do the Canadian built Camaros have them.

as far as the radio issue.....i worked at a local chevy dealer in the late 60's and early
70's and they had 1 guy (Speedie was his nick name ) who's only job was radio installs on both stock cars without radios and cars with AM's that customers wanted switched to AM/FM. he did the whole install........wiring, speakers, radios......everything.....8 hours a day 5 days a week.

Isn't that what we are discussing here.....:confused: Canadian built Camaros.....
Nope. No first gens built in Canada. We're discussing ones sold new in Canada. :)

Nope. No first gens built in Canada. We're discussing ones sold new in Canada. :)

Ahhhhhhhh.........thanks Kurt. It makes more sense now. I hadn't heard of Canadian built Camaros before, but you never know what comes to light on here.....:thumbsup:

The Canadian built and documented Chevelle I have also has ALL the rpo codes on the trim tag as well for all to see. Did the Camaros receive the same info on their trim tags ??

No RPO codes on Camaro trim tags. The GM of Canada docs show the RPO codes. I display the GM of Canada documents with my 1970 L78 Camaro when I'm at shows and meets. There's nothing to be worried about. Anybody can call GM of Canada and request the paperwork for a specific VIN so it's not like the information is exclusive to the owner.

Anybody can call GM of Canada and request the paperwork for a specific VIN so it's not like the information is exclusive to the owner.

Now THAT is something that could change. Providing proof of ownership should be a priority.

Now THAT is something that could change. Providing proof of ownership should be a priority.

Thats a catch 22 situation. Lots of people are not willing to buy a car with out first checking if indeed it is a true Z28/Copo etc. Also even if the current owner has GM of Canada Documentation, I would strongly advise STILL checking with GM Vintage Vehicle Services, as in todays world of phony Paperwork, such Documentation can be photo shopped or made up. JMO.

Now THAT is something that could change. Providing proof of ownership should be a priority.

Again, if it's an existing VIN, it's a non-issue.
No way to get MIA VIN's except via the microfiche sheets.

Now THAT is something that could change. Providing proof of ownership should be a priority.

I disagree with that because if you're researching a potential car to buy you would want to see if you can get the GM of Canada docs to prove or disprove what a car might be.

Remember that the Canadian docs only tell that a car with that VIN was imported into Canada, and that it was equipped with the listed options. It does not prove that a car you are looking at is the same one that was imported 40 years ago. (fake VINS, rebodies, etc do exist!) That's why inspection of hidden VINS, telltale signs of certain options, and other detective work needs to be done, before plunking down your hard-earned cash.

How do you find out if your camaro was sold new in Canada? is there a phone#?

http://www.camaros.org/geninfo.shtml#MyCarHistory

Again, if it's an existing VIN, it's a non-issue.
No way to get MIA VIN's except via the microfiche sheets.

Kurt, not sure what MIA means, but you are not seeing my point or my concern with this issue. An existing vin on a substantial Can. documented car is indeed an issue. As was pointed out, vehicle ownership is not a requirement to have GM forward paperwork on any car. Lets use any one of the high end cars as an example, L89, COPO's etc. As long as its a Canadian car and if they have the vin #, anyone, anywhere in the country can get the GM docs in their name. Thats step#1, now they have the docs. Now all they have to do is build a car to fit the paperwork. With all the BS going on these days, I know this is happening. See my concern?

MIA is missing in action.

You have a valid concern, but you have to provide GM of Canada with the VIN number of the car your interested in. You can't just send them a request for all the L89 cars sent to Canada and have them provide you with the info.

The GM of canada info also doesn't tell you if the car is registered to someone so if you happened to know the VIN of a COPO or L89, or some other car, you also have to know that the car no longer exists if your going to clone up all the tags and other paper work, otherwise you will end up with a duplicate car. It has been done but its not easy.

As long as its a Canadian car and if they have the vin #, anyone, anywhere in the country can get the GM docs in their name. Thats step#1, now they have the docs. Now all they have to do is build a car to fit the paperwork.
So they would then get fake VIN and trim tags and build a duplicate car?? That's just dumb if the original car already exists.....

It's pretty dumb regardless, even if the car is gone, as there would be no way to prove an 'ownership trail'.... you could end up LOSING the car you built from *scratch*.. and possibly be arrested for *theft*....(which would probably be deserved!)...

Remember that the Canadian docs only tell that a car with that VIN was imported into Canada, and that it was equipped with the listed options. It does not prove that a car you are looking at is the same one that was imported 40 years ago. (fake VINS, rebodies, etc do exist!) That's why inspection of hidden VINS, telltale signs of certain options, and other detective work needs to be done, before plunking down your hard-earned cash.


Actually you can say that about ALL docs. Docs confirm what the model of a VIN was. As you have said, it does not confirm that the car you are looking at originally came with that VIN number. Too many people are looking at docs and thinking it's good enough.

As we very well know, many, many people are fooled by fake tags and you name, just about everything else. I still think the best way to keep substantial Can. doced cars safe from the cloning and faking is to protect the vin#

What Next? Leave them locked in a garage . Bad things will happen no matter what. Wes :noway:

As we very well know, many, many people are fooled by fake tags and you name, just about everything else. I still think the best way to keep substantial Can. doced cars safe from the cloning and faking is to protect the vin#
If this were a real problem, you'd hear about duplicate cars showing up. They don't.
Lot of VIN's and docs (Canadian and otherwise) get pictured in ebay ads and nothing bad happens......
Look at the Vette world. VIN display is no big deal to them.

What has happened to this forum? And maybe the hobby. I have been reading threads like this a lot lately and we all sounding very parranoid. I guess it is the Camaro "Terrerists" out there cloning all these cars and falsifying documents, and stealing all our money. Come on guys we are all not int he Barret Jackson league in cars or prices.
When I joined this forum it was about gaining information and how to's on the hobby.
Now it has become a nit picking session of every car that shows up for sale. Also people are using this as a site to verify if a car is legit.
Now you guys are saying that the Canadian documentation is suspect. I am totaly fed up with this crap. I have had 4 Canadian Camaros and had the documentation from GM, done on them. They are all EXACTLY optioned as the documents said. Included in that were 3 69 Zs. A couple of which I have sent information into Kurts data base.
It was always thought that the American Camaros could have as many options as you like becasue there was very little documentation compared to Canadian sold cars.
So don't go knocking the documents on them because the are 99% on the money. A lot better than most of the stuff that has been talked about here lately.
Another thing is that there were 230,000 69 Camaros and we are talking about a small handfull of cars that most of us could never afford in two lifetimes.
Lets get back to the hobby and enjoy it.

What has happened to this forum? And maybe the hobby. I have been reading threads like this a lot lately and we all sounding very parranoid. I guess it is the Camaro "Terrerists" out there cloning all these cars and falsifying documents, and stealing all our money. Come on guys we are all not int he Barret Jackson league in cars or prices.
When I joined this forum it was about gaining information and how to's on the hobby.
Now it has become a nit picking session of every car that shows up for sale. Also people are using this as a site to verify if a car is legit.
Now you guys are saying that the Canadian documentation is suspect. I am totaly fed up with this crap. I have had 4 Canadian Camaros and had the documentation from GM, done on them. They are all EXACTLY optioned as the documents said. Included in that were 3 69 Zs. A couple of which I have sent information into Kurts data base.
It was always thought that the American Camaros could have as many options as you like becasue there was very little documentation compared to Canadian sold cars.
So don't go knocking the documents on them because the are 99% on the money. A lot better than most of the stuff that has been talked about here lately.
Another thing is that there were 230,000 69 Camaros and we are talking about a small handfull of cars that most of us could never afford in two lifetimes.
Lets get back to the hobby and enjoy it.

I agree with your sentiments, but take a look around. A large part of what we talk about is about faking, fraud , falsifing and deceipt.

*APPLAUSE* for Stewie's post....

What has happened to this forum? ....

When I joined this forum it was about gaining information and how to's on the hobby.
Now it has become a nit picking session of every car that shows up for sale. Also people are using this as a site to verify if a car is legit.
......
Lets get back to the hobby and enjoy it.

I'm fairly new here, but I joined it to share in the information that we all have. THAT is the real value of such a group....

There is nothing wrong with the GM of Canada docs. But being put together from the microfiche by humans means there is a chance something could have been missed so take that into consideration. I understand what Frank is saying but there is a limit to how much you can protect your car(s). You would need to hide the VIN at every show or meet.

As for enjoying the hobby, I still do but the hobby has changed and you need to adapt. There are way too many scams, clones, rebodies and bogus cars to turn a blind eye. People are getting ripped off and it does no good for the hobby. Any car publicly for sale is up for scrutiny so I have no problem with potential buyers asking for help.

MIA is missing in action.

You have a valid concern, but you have to provide GM of Canada with the VIN number of the car your interested in. You can't just send them a request for all the L89 cars sent to Canada and have them provide you with the info.

The GM of canada info also doesn't tell you if the car is registered to someone so if you happened to know the VIN of a COPO or L89, or some other car, you also have to know that the car no longer exists if your going to clone up all the tags and other paper work, otherwise you will end up with a duplicate car. It has been done but its not easy.

Of course you cannot send a request to GM for all the L89 cars sent to Canada and have them provide you with the info. It doesn't work that way. But if anybody has their car advertized as a high profile Canadian documented car anywhere in the country, anybody can get a duplicate set of docs.

of course you cannot send a request to gm for all the l89 cars sent to canada and have them provide you with the info. It doesn't work that way. But if anybody has their car advertized as a high profile canadian documented car anywhere in the country, anybody can get a duplicate set of docs.
then what?

I disagree with that because if you're researching a potential car to buy you would want to see if you can get the GM of Canada docs to prove or disprove what a car might be.

In my opinion this option should only be made available by the owner as the last step in the sale. After the purchaser commits to buying subject to his or her set of docs from GM

So they would then get fake VIN and trim tags and build a duplicate car?? That's just dumb if the original car already exists.....

Why is that dumb? A person on the West coast wouldn't have a clue what a person on the East coast was building, and its double dangerous because not all the original cars have any public knowledge or paper trail.

Any national registry would pick it up. And then it would be really obvious that one of the cars was a duplicate. Dumb. You'd want to use an 'abandoned' VIN.

If this is such a problem, can you please tell us just when it's ever happened with a Canadian doc'd car??

Any national registry would pick it up. And then it would be really obvious that one of the cars was a duplicate. Dumb. You'd want to use an 'abandoned' VIN.

If this is such a problem, can you please tell us just when it's ever happened with a Canadian doc'd car??

Kurt, I cannot give you a specific example. I don't know of one, as I have not specifically kept data or followed any trail of events linked to the duplification of two vehicles. What I am saying at this point is that as much caution as is possible needs to be exercised to make sure it does not happen.