And didn't like what I saw.

I mean, there was no metal shavings or anything, it's just the way they put them together.
I've read all the stuff you see on the web about Fram, and now I can totally agree.
I've used Fram for over 15 years, no longer.
I found the cardboard thats on the sides of the element were probably on "the end" of the roll- meaning it was chafed or scuffed on the outside due to maybe shipping/handling or whatever, and it was used to form the ends of the element. This after 5000 miles on my daily driver '05 Toyota Corolla seemed to get a bit soft and as it was saturated with the oil, slowly started to disintegrate/fray/come apart. Not necessarily enough to cause immediate failure, but who knows exactly how long it woulda held on....
The paper element pleats were not consistently spaced either. The plastic valve thats also in there seems too cheap to be effective or reliable.

Now this is my 2nd Fram I've cut open with my filter cutting tool. The other Fram I cut open was on wife's '01 GT Mustang a month ago. Different car, naturally different filter number.
Same looking filter components, only the cardboard wasn't "chafed" or looked like it held up. Still had inconsistent pleat spacing.

Fram definately no more!

This margin of error in manufacturing or production tolerances is too close for my comfort.

There's NAPA Gold's currently on both cars now. The Camaro has a Fram Tough Guard or Extra Guard or whatever it's called on it right now. I'll cut that one open in a month or so when it's time. Don't worry, the 350 thats in it right now is pretty tired, it'll be o.k.- no high dollar engine in it - yet.

For s's & giggles, I'm going to cut open the NAPA's as well to really see for myself the difference in the construction. Havta wait a few months, not sure if my car will see 5k first, or the wife's Mustang.....

....Just thought I'd share what I saw first hand......

No pictures :D

No pictures :D
Their worth a 1000 words

John, let us know what the NAPA looks like when you cut it open. I've read the horror stories about Fram, but I've been running Fram oil filters on all my cars for 30 years without a problem....have not had a vehicle go less than 200K miles...except for a Ford Escort...LOL...

Maybe I need to cut a few open myself just to see what's up.

They are trash!! Napa Gold line, Carquest is a remarked Wix filter, and AC Delco is all I use.

AC Delco is all I use.


Me too man!.....But now I heard that GM is selling AC Delco and I'm starting to get worried about quality control!.....I might add, I used Fram in the past with no problemos!:noway:

Interesting, as I have used Frams for almost 40 years with nary a problem. As suggested, post some pics please..................

-

Well, if GM sells AC Delco, isn't that a slam dunk it's going to China?

How about that article about Ford and all the tire valves it used which were made in China and seem to have a nasty habit of failing?

When will it end?

alan

My mechanic swears by AC Delco filters, so I just started using them. I'm interested to know more about them.

Interesting, as I have used Frams for almost 40 years with nary a problem. As suggested, post some pics please..................

-

Go to and read bobistheoilguy.com. I believe that is the website. Do a search for it. LOTS of good reading. Not all FRAMS are bad. The hi-po are OK as far as I know. The off the self stuff has reports of plastic pieces breaking apart.

Well, if GM sells AC Delco, isn't that a slam dunk it's going to China?



Quality Control Good?, Not?:noway::mad:

I have cut open all three, Napa, CarQuest and Fram.
The first two were basically the same with Napa leading. More pletes, spring loaded lower metal plate and the internal metal preforated tube even looked better on the leading filters. When compared to Fram , there is noticable differance. Remember here , this is your $4 filter, but Napa is not much more.
I have yet to cut open one of the Fram HP race filters. I just wonder if they are any better.
Here is a link to a recent study done on filters. I too have used Fram for many years with no issues but then I alway ran them 3500 miles. I have used them with and without a plugged bypass with no noticable differance in oil pressure above 5 psi and this was also compared to Napa Gold.

http://www.knizefamily.net/minimopar/oilfilters/index.html

So the method of "whatever filter they put on it at the lube shop" isn't any good eh? Funny, worked fine for the 350 in my truck with 260,000 miles, and the V6 in my other truck with 170,000 miles. Sometimes I wonder if we're nit-picking a bit. Of course, I'd be pickier if I had a $10k engine in my Camaro I suppose......

The word is not "nit-picking" it is "Obsessing":D:beers:

The word is not nit picking, it is paranoia!:yes::D:thumbsup::beers:

No pictures :D

Pics?
Ya, got pics of it,
Hang on........

fram filters are junk. we sell probably 100 purolator filters for every one fram filter at the local advance auto I work at. The one fram filter is one that a dedicated fram person of 20 years will buy. I wonder if these people ever cut open the filters to look at them? We've cut open a few filters in the store, and the fram stuff just looks pathetic compared to purolator, ac delco, mobil one, k&n and even our advance brand! Motorcraft filters are bascially a purolator pureone filter with the ford logo on the outside of it. I run AC on the GM stuff, Motorcraft on the fords and the purolator pureone filters. I have recently been trying K&N on my 67 as per my engine builders request, and I'll cut one of those open on my next oil change to see how well it works compared to the regular AC.

I'm pretty sure if you cut open a used oil filter and inhale the fumes, something will happen to you in the near future!:yes:

First thing you'll notice when you disembowel a Napa Gold vs a Fram is the case is slightly heavier gauge, and the top piece is much heavier.

We used to use Fram filters on some little compressors, then started having problems with blowing them off during winter startups. End off Fram for those compressors.

After you get the cartridge out, take a utility knife and seperate the paper from the tube by making 1 cut in between pleats and 2 cuts on a circumference a little inboard of the end pieces. You'll have to pull pretty hard to get the Wix to unravel.

Then if you want to inspect it close just unravel about a foot of it and stand it up on a rag for a day or so, then you can really see what your filter catches.

Pics?
Ya, got pics of it,
Hang on........

Wife has the cable for the camera at work, been looking all over for it, gimme a few days, sorry.......

Go HERE (http://www.knizefamily.net/minimopar/oilfilters/reference.html#fram) to get all the skinny you need on oil filters......you won't think the AC Delco's are all that good after you read it.

How a filter is made does not necessairly reflect on how a filter filters. Without the full SAE test data report it is useless to compare filters.


TTFN
Mat

mobil 1 or k&n all the way

How a filter is made does not necessairly reflect on how a filter filters. Without the full SAE test data report it is useless to compare filters.


TTFN
Mat

If it is poorly made, it will collapse or fail internally and you will never know it, unless it has caused your engine to fail. Paying an extra $5-8 for a quality filter is nothing as compared to losing your engine. :thumbsup:

Well, if GM sells AC Delco, isn't that a slam dunk it's going to China?

How about that article about Ford and all the tire valves it used which were made in China and seem to have a nasty habit of failing?

When will it end?

alan
If you look at the Country of origin on Delco parts you will see a good portion are Asian countries and have been for years.

If it is poorly made, it will collapse or fail internally and you will never know it, unless it has caused your engine to fail. Paying an extra $5-8 for a quality filter is nothing as compared to losing your engine. :thumbsup:

Both Mat & Walter are correct, :thumbsup:

The point I was trying to make was more on Walters post, meaning, the one I cut open had a higher possibility of failing internally due to my observation of the materials used being inferior/damaged, but still considered acceptable by Fram for regular production.

It is this tighter margin for error or accepted looser tolerances I'm no longer comfortable with.

Besides, Our local auto parts stores charge nearly the same for a Fram, NAPA, carquest, etc. Why spend the same price for a filter with inferior manufacturing process/practices?

i still have a new fram filter in the box, and thats the only place where it belongs

Every Fram oil filter I ever used tested 10 to 12 psi LOWER pressure than the Wix filters, CarQuest, NAPA, Pur-O-Lator, AC, all the rest. Same thing in even back to back tests, Fram on test, stop engine, replace filter with other brand, top oil off, start, and test again.

Regards,

Milton

i worked at a parts store and we had the Baldwin filter rep in the store and he cut apart a Baldwin, ac delco, fram and a wix you did not have to be an engineer to see which one was junk fram has cardboard ends and this was the hp4 racing filter the ac delco had a flat piece of metal for a bypass valve the wix and Baldwin were both good filters with a spring for a bypass and a metal center. these were all race filters

There is so much information as to how crappy Fram filters are on the net, that I wonder why people keep using them. Guess, it is the same reason McDonald's serves billions.:eek:

Yes, they are inexpensive(cheap).

This is interesting becasue I came to the same conclusions. I worked in a machine shop for 10 years where we had 3 engine dynos. I was testing oil filters out for the owner one day. I took a big block Chevy and plugged the bypass in the filter adaper with a 1/4 pipe plug. I used a new fram and started it up...I couldnt get more than 40 psi of oil pressure. I changed nothing else except a Mobile 1 filter which was a Champion filter. I was able to get 65 psi of oil pressure. I then tried a wix and again got 65psi. In conclusion, it was determined that the Fram actually restricted the oil flow to cause that much differential pressure. This means that runnign a fram means that you are running alot of oil throught he bypass...unfiltered oil that is....Let me say that all I ever used in my own vehicles was Fram until then. I now use Wix filters.

I don't know about paranoia. Spoke with my parts guy since i used fram for 30+years. He said that since they are now made in CHINA They have had a few problems and concerns with the quality.