I'm somewhat familiar with the story of Yenko; but didn't Chevy eventually start making them from the factory? If so, why would they when they already offered the 427 under COPO? I've also wondered why it was such a big deal what Yenko did. Was he the first guy to put a bigger motor in a new car from the factory? I know a Copo in '69 cost about $4,000 more than the base model. What was the cost for a factory Yenko; and one from his dealership?

Here is a helpful link http://www.musclecarcalendar.com/WeKnowJack/YenkoWeknowJack.htm

Don Yenko himself used the COPO order to get the 427's he needed.

Don Yenko started swapping 427s into the Camaros in '67, thus starting the Yenko Camaro. By '69, he couldn't keep up with demand, and got Chevrolet to start doing it for him.

Here is a helpful link http://www.musclecarcalendar.com/WeKnowJack/YenkoWeknowJack.htm

Don Yenko himself used the COPO order to get the 427's he needed.


Cool read. Thanks for the link.

thanks for the link.

Actually, GM didn't "make" Yenkos. Starting in 69, they made COPO9561, which Yenko bought and added his graphics and often wheels, tach, etc. to make them "Yenkos". Word got out about the COPOs and so Chevrolet sold them to other dealers.

In 68, Yenko got Chevy to make COPO9737 which included 140 speedo, oversized sway bar and 15" rallys. Yenko would purchase L78 with COPO9737, and still the do engine swap. (not sure if they were short blocks, and he reused the top half, or if they were complete engines.)

COPO9737 continued in 69 and Yenko ordered that in conjunction with the COPO9561 which included the L72 and cowl hood, along with the BE coded heavy duty rear, thus creating the "Double COPO". At least one other dealer (Berger) ordered some Double COPOs.

I think the move from transplant to COPO was more about money than Yenko's ability to keep up with demand. With the COPO, he did not have left over engines (or short blocks) to contend with, plus the COPO included the factory warranty, which was voided with the engine transplant.

I just read the article linked above. I was not aware that the Yenko Chevelles were also ordered with COPO9737. Is that accurate? How about the Novas?

Unreal: "yes" on the Chevelles, "no" on the Novas...

Okiemark: you have the order backwards...for '69, Don Yenko petitioned Chevrolet to build the 427 Camaros/Chevelles for him, and *him only*...that's why the first 'X' amount of '69 COPO Camaros/Chevelles went through Yenko Chevrolet...but, the COPO info leaked out, and other dealers got on board. And an L72 COPO (9561/9562) did *not* cost $4k over the base price...you're thinking of the ZL1 COPO (9560) Camaro, which did indeed more than double the base price of the car.

I just went to Yenkos.net and answered my own question. According to them, 1969 Chevelles were available with COPO9737, which included 15" wheels and the Heavy duty rear.

It also says that COPO9737 on the 1969 Camaro included the heavy duty rear. To quote,"A 12 bolt housing with a special ring/pinion replaced the standard units under COPO 9737."

I don't think that is accurate, as all COPO9561 included the BE rear, even if the COPO9737 was not ordered.

There was no mention of COPOP9737 for Novas.

The COPO 9651 cost under $ 500.... less than an SS L/78. Plus it included the ZL2 "Cowl Hood" which was a $79 option on the SS and Z/28.

I just went to Yenkos.net and answered my own question. According to them, 1969 Chevelles were available with COPO9737, which included 15" wheels and the Heavy duty rear.

It also says that COPO9737 on the 1969 Camaro included the heavy duty rear. To quote,"A 12 bolt housing with a special ring/pinion replaced the standard units under COPO 9737."

I don't think that is accurate, as all COPO9561 included the BE rear, even if the COPO9737 was not ordered.
LOL...I agree with ya, as logically that's what makes sense (I'll edit that page to reflect that), but I just looked in Cunneen's book and the axle assemblies are listed under "UPC 4" under both the 9561 & 9737 on the "Build Order" page from Chevrolet...?

The COPO 9737 was an option first called the “Yenko Sports Car Conversion” and was suspension upgrades and 140 speedometers on Camaro. The special BE and KQ rear was part of the 9561 and 9562 COPO. The LT1 Nova used the F41 suspension upgrade.

okiemark,

To understand why Yenko Chevrolet was a special dealership, you have to go back to the early 1960s and look at some of the things Don did to help get the Chevy products on the racetrack.

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=142183

Above is a post I made that shows one reason why Don Yenko was one of the top high performance Chevy dealers. Don was getting special cars from Chevy starting in 1961 for the Yenko/Gulf Oil Corvette racing team. They were very successful and won many national championships. From 1961 to 1963, no one could run with the Yenko B/P Corvettes.

In 1963 GM had a smack down on racing activity and many teams and top drivers went to Ford. Don still raced his own Corvettes even though Gulf Oil went to Ford. In the Youtube clip on the 1965 B/P championship race, Don was the lone Chevy in the B/P field.

In 1966 Yenko built the Stinger Corvair for SCCA D/P racing.
Chevy sold Don 100 special Corvairs using the COPO system.
This was the first use of the COPO system to build high performance cars for SCCA racing.

In 1967 Yenko built the 427 Super Camaro to qualify for AHRA Super Stock racing.

In 1968 Yenko built the 427 Super Camaro to qualify for AHRA Super Stock racing and tried to qualify for NHRA but did not make it.
NHRA required factory built 427 Camaros.

In 1969 Yenko purchased the first 427 COPO Camaros and Chevelles and they did qualify for NHRA Super Stock.

Yenko had his own hi po option. COPO 9737 was first called the “Yenko Sports Car Conversion” and was suspension upgrades and 140 speedometers on the 1968 Camaro.

What gets me about dealers like Yenko, Nicky and Baldwin putting Big Blocks into Z28's is that you could do it yourself and back then many people did it rather then paying a dealer. It's too bad but a lot of the original DZ and 70 360Hp LT1's engines were lost in the process. What doesn't make sense, to me, is that: By today's standards, if a dealer did it the car's value increased but if you did it the value has decreased.

Don't think Z28's were used for conversions, but L78's were because all the BB stuff was already there.
My April '94 Camaro Enthusiast magazine shows a price comparison of $3578.85 for a Z28 and $3575.30 for a COPO. The cars cost about the same because RPO Z28 was $458.15 and a ZL2 hood was $78 vs COPO 9561 was 489.75 and the hood was included

Are we referring only to '69 yenko nova's which were not copo's at all as not including a 9737 copo package for nova's? this is somewhat misleading because the 1970 yenko deuce nova had the 9737 copo package which meant you got a turbo 400 or muncie 4spd instead of base tranny, got f41 suspension with heavy front swaybar, rear swaybar, and got CBW coded heavy duty ring and pinion 4.10 rear end. Also included copo 9010 which got you the LT1 engine. just clarifying.

Yeah, I think it was implied we were talking about '69s, but it doesn't hurt to clarify...'69 Novas=no COPO, '70 Novas=COPO

What gets me about dealers like Yenko, Nicky and Baldwin putting Big Blocks into Z28's is that you could do it yourself and back then many people did it rather then paying a dealer. It's too bad but a lot of the original DZ and 70 360Hp LT1's engines were lost in the process. What doesn't make sense, to me, is that: By today's standards, if a dealer did it the car's value increased but if you did it the value has decreased.


Whether it is coins, paintings, guns, bicycles, or cars, the world of collectables can be very strange and unpredictable.
You can have two examples that are very similar in age, style, etc., but one will sell ten times more then the other.

There is not as many real documented Yenko, Motion, Nickey, cars around as there are collectors, so the price goes high.

Don't think Z28's were used for conversions, but L78's were because all the BB stuff was already there.




I have not heard of any Yenko 427/454 conversions from Z/28s
But Motion Performance and Nickey did do some

[QUOTE=novamob;1103050]Don't think Z28's were used for conversions, but L78's were because all the BB stuff was already there.
My April '94 Camaro Enthusiast magazine shows a price comparison of $3578.85 for a Z28 and $3575.30 for a COPO. The cars cost about the same because RPO Z28 was $458.15 and a ZL2 hood was $78 vs COPO 9561 was 489.75 and the hood was included[/QU Actually no COPO cars started life as a Z28 but all 69 COPO's [Camaros] started as L78's

Actually no COPO cars started life as a Z28 but all 69 COPO's [Camaros] started as L78's

I believe Joe was talking about *dealer* conversions, not factory built units...

Most people believe that Motion and Nickey did not buy 427 COPO cars.
They may have had some but mostly used SS cars and some Z/28s

here is a 427 Z/28 Nickey conversion

http://corvettes-musclecars.com/cgi-bin/emAlbum.cgi?c=show_thumbs;p=1969%20Nickey%20L88%20 427%20Z28%20Camaro

[QUOTE=novamob;1103050]Actually no COPO cars started life as a Z28 but all 69 COPO's [Camaros] started as L78's

That's correct if you mean "on paper." The Central Office (COPO=Central Office Production Order) engineered all the COPOs, (mostly police cars, taxis, etc), by starting with a production vehicle, and then used a series of adds and deducts to come up with the COPO. In the case of COPO9561, they started with RPO L78 and then deducted the L78 motor and added the L72 motor.

The factory did not actually build an L78 Camaro, and then remove and replace the appropriate parts, to make it an L72....but that's what many of the transplant dealers did, (including Yenko, prior to 69.) whenever that was practical. However, they also built some of their "Super Cars" from existing inventory, if that was practical.

Us kids didn't know about COPO's. Like Ron said, I did it myself. I bought the block a year before the car. It needed changes. The pistons were 12.5 but were closed chamber. The rods were M/T aluminum. Not good for the street. It's a long story, but I didn't install the L88 (with later OC heads until the L78 died) and that was a year out of warranty. My buddies were right. If I only knew then, what I know now.:cool:

I went one or two better and made a Camaro no one has. GM did not place a L72 in front of a automatic and a factory air conditioned anything in the 1968 model run. It was not until 1969 that they placed a solid lifter L72 427 in front of a T400 in a Corvette, but without AC. I transplanted a new crate L72 suffix "IP" 427 into a cherry unrestored Southern rust free 1968 396 Camaro coupe that was equipped with T 400 and factory air. Up grading the suspension and drive train to handle the L72 and a new 4.11 final drive, It turned out to be one "bitchen" Camaro.


http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff6/waltspuffer/Camaros/bronzec7.jpg

actually available but not cheap

I never heard of a crate engine with the suffix code on it...maybe it was a left over motor. What is the rest of the engine number, and did you buy it?

I never heard of a crate engine with the suffix code on it...maybe it was a left over motor. What is the rest of the engine number, and did you buy it?

If you will notice that I mentioned that this engine was a NEW crate engine for a 1966 L72 Corvette with the "IP" suffix. There is no vin because it was never installed into a Vette. If you ordered a crate engine L88 then the suffix would be "IT" and then the TO530. Short blocks were "CE" suffix letters. Only complete engines had the ID letters, short blocks were normally "CE" or warranty engines. I thought most Chevy persons knew this. That engine in my Bronze Camaro is worth several thousand as a complete numbers matching L72 427 used in 66 Vettes. I believe Yenko merely used 427 CE short blocks not complete engines. Otherwise his 427`s would carry suffix letters designating what the engine was actually intended for. And yes I bought it and several more including a pair of L88`s suffix "IP" that I shoehorned into a 18 foot drag boat. The "IT" tag is visible on the back of the right side valve covers if you look real close. I also have a L88 in my 68 Vette

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff6/waltspuffer/Rosebud/41043april_67_twin.jpg

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff6/waltspuffer/Rosebud/twinl88s.jpg

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff6/waltspuffer/Rosebud/41043big_twin_at_ranch.jpg

I hope this explanation helps,

I was under the understanding that all crate motors, short block or complete, were CE coded. I was not challenging you when I asked for the entire code, I just want to see the date the motor was assembled, to see if maybe Chevy did sell leftover motors with the suffix. I guess am not enough of a Chevy guy to have already known that. I am so ashamed.

You will notice that I asked for the rest of the code, not the VIN, as I am enough of a Chevrolet guy to know the VIN is only on line-installed engines)

I do see a typo in my question, as I intended to ask, when did you buy it, not did you buy it. I just asked the question so maybe I'd learn something.

Pretty cool boat, BTW!

Those are great pictures of the boat and original L88s

Most people say that the CE engines did not come out until 1968

.

It was NOT a left over motor, It was purchased in 1966. The pad reads TO630IP {June 30,} correct. And no vin as it is a special ordered L72 427 ci. 425 HP GM crate engine. I was selling drag boats and would purchase complete 427 Chevy engines and place them in the canoes. The Chevys were quick, so most of the boats received 427`s Several got L88`s. Somehow I dont think you believe me. :D

google my name {Wally Knoch driver} and see another toy, this one is a Yellow convertible. Could make a beliver out of you yet....:yes:

I don't think I ever said, or even implied that I did not believe you. Like I said, I was just trying to learn something. I also don't think I said you bought a leftover engine. I was just hypothesizing that maybe that's how the Corvette suffix ended up in a crate engine.

Maybe Joe hit it... if the CE coding system did not begin until 68, so before that date, the engines had the application suffix. Of course, that begs the question....For engines available in multiple lines, like the 327 or 396, for example, what suffix would be on the engine? Impala, Corvette, Chevelle, random?

BTW, the CE in the Chevrolet Engine code is a prefix, not a suffix. Not nit picking, just wanted to prevent someone reading this from getting the wrong information.

NIce Street hemi in a 'Cuda...

Looks like you also owned the "Walt's Puffer" Funny car...

Cool....:thumbsup:

NIce Street hemi in a 'Cuda...

Looks like you also owned the "Walt's Puffer" Funny car...

Cool....:thumbsup:

Actually my Dad owned all the 'Walts Puffers' and I drove them. Of which there were 10 of them using Supercharged Chryslers and Donavons on Gas and Nitro, The last one.

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff6/waltspuffer/21Waltsa-vi.jpg


Thanks on the Cuda but it`s not a Street Hemi The Cuda is powered by the last complete 1965 A990 Race Hemi in existence at approximately 600 HP right out of the box. One of the rarest engines Chrysler built.

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff6/waltspuffer/A990%20Cuda/A990-1.jpg