Thanks to chicane67 the road race oil pan decision has been made but now it's time to get the oil cooling, filtering, and fluid transfer lines done right.

From a cleanliness aspect I like the in-radiator coolers similar to those used in truck applicaitions. If this setup is used, should the cooler be installed on the hot or cold side of the radiator? What are the drawbacks? What factors need to be considered? The current radiator has ample cooling capacity.

If the in-radiator cooler is not an option then what is the preferred type and manufacturer of cooler? What's the best way to determine the proper size?

Then there's filters and adapters. Are the sandwich type adapters OK? There are many remote filter systems available, is there an advantage to these? Ease of replacement, oil transfer line drainage, bypass valves, proper sizing, etc.

Finally, fluid transfer lines. -10 AN Aeroquip is my gut choice but what other factors need to be addressed?

Wow, that's a lot of stuff.

Thanks.

Uh-oh......a new can of worms.

I'll just add the rest of the systems idea that I use with the oil pan of previous discussion.

Lets address the in-radiator, oil cooler. I myself use 8000 Series C&R (http://66.155.51.113/products/specItem.aspx?prodID=7334&genCat=39) radiators, that is a closed system '2 pass' core with a 13 plate heat exchanger and run a Harrison surge tank (Corvette circa 67) = (old school vintage and period correct). The H20 inlet and outlet are both on the passenger side with the cooler inlet and outlet on the driverside, so the cooler is effectively in the middle (its a 2 pass radiator). I opt for the #20AN inlet and the standard 1 3/4" outlet. The oil cooler is set up for AN up to #12, but you can use #10....I do, and I use this for a water neck. (http://www.petersonfluidsys.com/coolsys.html)

The only drawback is that if you were ever to crack the cooler you would get H20 in the oil, but I have not run into that using C&R's coolers for the past 10+ years. It basically just wont happen......

If the in-radiator cooler isnt an option, I would use a Setrab (http://www.setrab.com/setrab.htm) 'sandwich plate' cooler. As for size, it would be based off of BTU rejection required for the application. Something around 8.5 x 11" would do the trick, but no smaller.

Now, filters and adapters.......

Filters, I use Fram HP4 or the K&N equivlent.

Adapters, I use a TRACO part visible in this picture (http://www.geocities.com/tholt67/oilpan.html) and the oil filter relocation adapter to match. Winters Products make a virtual copy of the bypass, but I havent seen/found it on the net......I had to order it from Racerwholesale. As for the filter mount the MOROSO 23750 (http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categorydisplay.asp?catcode=21001) is a great knockoff of the original TRACO part. These can be purchased easily through various companies as well as direct......but you probably wont find the TRACO parts except maybe through PVB Motorsports........

Line size. Well this is a pressure and volume answer. But I use #10AN with the previously discussed system and it works fine. The radiators are set up to use #12 but we're not running a drysump here.........

As for cost, I see it like this.

If you were to do a Griffen bolt in and same said bypass and filter mount with a sandwich plate cooler with the associated line and fittings will runs about $1000.00 total.

The C&R 2 pass w/heat exchanger, the same said bypass and filter mount with the associated line and fittings will run about $865.00 total.

The advantage going to the C&R set-up for ease of maintanence, less overall parts, less overall weight and less overall space required and you dont have to hang anything into the air stream. Not to forget to mention, that the 'cooler in-radiator' set-up will warm up faster, cool better and maintain the oil temperature within 40*F of water coolant temperature......which is perfect. H20 at 185*F - oil at 225*F.....what could be better ?

I dunno.......just some ideas to chew on.

Carl, what pan did you decide on?
I talked to a guy who put a Canton pan on his TA vintage Camaro and lost the bearings at Sears Pt.

I think he went with a Milodon pan after that.

I like the In-Rad coolers too. Less stuff under the hood to mess with that way.

My 92 Blazer and some GM pickups we have on the farm have the cooler in the drivers side of the radiator. It's easier to run the lines there. The hot side of the rad is probably closer to what you want oil temp to be when just crusing. That way the oil won't be overcooled. GM doesn't use an oil thermostat on that system.

Dash 10 hose is fine for a SB, just try to not use 90 deg fittings, and if you do use the 90's, use hose ends, not screw in elbows. I used dash 12 lines on my dry sump but mainly for less restriction on the suction side of the pump. If there is much suction, the hose can go flat real easy and choke the pump inlet.

As long as it's under pressure, and there are not a ton of tight fittings, dash 10 is enough.

Moroso has a nice sandwich plate with oil filter boss on the bottom. It will space the filter down about 1.5" I think, so check for filter clearance.
The oil goes out to the cooler, then back and through the filter and into the engine. It won't protect the cooler if you damage a bearing, but it will protect the engine.

The type of coolers made by Mocal are used by most race teams. Earls sells something similar.
http://www.pegasusautoracing.com is where I bought mine. This place has them a little cheaper: http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/cooler.htm

A 19 row X 13" wide cooler is what I have used on the Lola and should be considered minimum. A 25 row is what some mustang race vendors sell but maybe overkill?
Here is a link that shows the Mocal thermostatic sandwich plate. http://www.batinc.net/mocal.htm

I think this is needed for a street car with Mocal type cooler. Some track cars with air to oil coolers and no oil thermostat have to block the cooler with cardboard when street driving.

Barnes systems makes some beautiful adapters and mounts too.
David

[ 07-24-2003, 12:11 AM: Message edited by: davidpozzi ]

Can-O-Worms eh? Nah. Snakes.

David,

The pan Tom has been discussing is covered here:
http://www.camaros.net/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=007179

Seems like a pretty nice setup.

Mongo says oil to bearings -GOOD!, no oil to bearings-BAD!

I too would much prefer to run an in-rad cooler. This may only apply to me but there are some issues with running the cooler lines to the LH side of the radiator. I cannot extend the LH tank, this means a new LH tank + shortening the main core to make the cooler fit. The current tank is a thin Corvette tank. Plus, the fan shroud would have to be notched, but that's no big deal. The passenger side is wide open. The automatic transmission cooler is still in there so swapping that out would be no big deal. My concern is that the oil temps would become too cold since this is the cold side of the radiator. Would this be a problem, or is there some type of reliable thermostatic device available? The radiator is in excellent condition and I'd hate to double-spend again on another radiator.

Given the additional friction due to the hose, cooler, and fittings does it start to make sense to run a higher pressure spring in the pump?

Do these aftermarket adapters use an internal bypass? Is is necessary?

Carl,
I would suggest inserting the GM pickup in-tank cooler but on the pass side tank of your present radiator. If this can be done, I would use the Mocal thermostatic sandwich plate.
I doubt it has a bypass, but if you use a high flow type racing filter it should be fine. Some non high flow filters can be too restrictive when the oil is cold and if you use non-multigrade oil.
The danger is very high backpressure seen by the pump at startup, which could baloon a cheap restrictive filter.

I don't have a good number for pressure loss, but it has to cost something to pump the oil around and through the cooler.
I'd guess there is a 5-10 psi loss, but it depends on the cooler and amount of fittings and hose.

There are inline oil to water heat exchangers that could be plumbed into the upper hose but that takes room too. If you could put one of those into the heater hose line, that might be an option.

There was a vette cooler that plumbed the coolant into a sandwich plate, the plate had a tiny heat exchanger inside it. I think that cooler was not really up to the job of cooling the oil though. I had a friend with one that came in his vette and it still had high oil temps.
David

I just put my car on the street, which is a tall filled bbc which caused oil temp issues.

I did a bunch of research till I came up with this oil cooler solution. The oil cooler sandwhich adapter plate is made by Earls. It's different than most as it has a built in thermostatic switch that limits oil flow to the cooler till the oil reaches 160-180 degrees.

The cooler itself is a 25 row Setrab unit with #10 AN lines/fittings. Total cost of the install was right at $500.

http://www.qis.net/~geislert/oilcooler1.jpg

http://www.qis.net/~geislert/oilcooler2.jpg

http://www.qis.net/~geislert/oilcooler3.jpg

http://www.qis.net/~geislert/oilcooler4.jpg

http://www.qis.net/~geislert/oilcooler5.jpg

http://www.qis.net/~geislert/oilcooler6.jpg

http://www.qis.net/~geislert/oilcooler7.jpg

http://www.qis.net/~geislert/oilcooler8.jpg

http://www.qis.net/~geislert/oilcooler9.jpg

http://www.qis.net/~geislert/oilcooler10.jpg

http://www.qis.net/~geislert/oilcooler11.jpg

http://www.qis.net/~geislert/oilcooler12.jpg

http://www.qis.net/~geislert/oilcooler13.jpg

http://www.qis.net/~geislert/oilcooler14.jpg

http://www.qis.net/~geislert/oilcooler15.jpg

http://www.qis.net/~geislert/oilcooler16.jpg

http://www.qis.net/~geislert/oilcooler17.jpg

http://www.qis.net/~geislert/oilcooler18.jpg

hth
Todd

When you start to add restrictive items, like 90* fittings, a remote filter and a possibly restrictive oil cooler and/or filter......a higher pressure spring may be required. I dont run anything over a 45* fitting and use a higher flow filter, so I have tried to reduce all restrictions as much as possible.

The adapter I use and the Winters copy does not use an internal bypass at all. In fact, the screw on filter adapter isnt even used.....it bolts right into the block. I have been told with the oil system that I run and do run on my more severe wet sump builds, not to run a bypass. I was told that even if something fails, a 'full flow' system will still provide more oil than that of a bypassed system. The term 'priority oiling' was also thrown around as well.

Two things.......

Maybe if you were to call Chet at C&R the two of you could configure a radiator with the tank on the passenger side. Honestly, these cats will build what is needed without jacking up the price......it wouldnt hurt to give them a call to see what they can offer.

Chet (317) 293-4100

Secondly, ya know I am pretty impressed with the Harrison sandwich cooler that was used on the Corvette and the Truck chassis (the same one David is talking about). It fits on the filter pad of the block and runs the return lines to the bottom of the block and the heater core. The only thing that you would need would be to purchase the kit from GM that fits those mentioned models, its about $385.00 if I remember right. I have used these before on/in the Guldstrand Cars and the oil temp stayed right in the 240-260* range.....which is right on the money and acceptable......but it was only really for short bursts on the track. So, along with Davids comment, I would agree that it would be a little inadequate for really formal beatings.

And.....

BTW, cool set up Todd.

Chicane67,
My friend was seeing temps near 160 on a 4AM back road banzi run.

Carl,
Yesterday I was working on our 88 3/4 ton pickup and the end tank on that one has the cooler on driver's side with tank that sticks out 2" to the side, the height looks like 19" as near as I can measure it on the truck. The width of the core header is 2" which might fit a Camaro core.

I assume you allready have the wider core on your Camaro and don't have extra room?

I guess that cooler could be put into your RH header tank...
David

The current radiator has a 24" core, thin LH side tank, wide passenger side tank to accomidate the non-needed automatic transmission cooler.

The local radiator shop has a box full of multi-plate GM in-rad coolers. They range in size from just a few plates up to some pretty beefy sizes. From a width standpoint it should fit in the RH tank easily.

The LH side at this point in time is not an option. The KSE PS tank is wedged between the radiator and RS vacuum tank. There's not a 1/4" to spare. There's a pic on my website that shows how cramped things have gotten. I may just have to re-engineer the PS plumbing and reservoir system and have a new LH tank added. In the long run it may be the way to go.

The Corvette sandwich cooler would be ideal but without knowing for sure if it can do the job I don't want to take a chance on flushing $400 down the toilet.

I like Todd's sandwich adapter from Earls since it combines two components, adapter and thermostat. Has anyone heard anything negative about these or their design?