This head has 64cc chambers w/ 170 runners
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=NAL%2D12558060&FROM=MG

while this head has 66cc chambers w/ 185 runners

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=NAL%2D25534351&FROM=MG

The price difference between the two would be $60 total (for 2 heads).

The latter set also have bigger valves 2.00 intakes and 1.55 exh. compared to 1.90 intake and 1.50 exh.

However, the first set come with valves and springs, while the second set does not.

Is the second set going to be significantly better than the first set?

I'm a novice when it comes to heads, but I have been reading hundreds of threads about the Vortecs. What do you think about these two sets? Thanks

Hard to recommend one or the other when we don't know your engine specs, gear ratio, transmission, or planned usage of the car. For purely street and cruising, the 170cc runners is all you need.

The second ones with 185cc runners and bigger valves will make more power on the top end if you have the right cam and other supporting mods (like headers, intake, etc.).

Once you add in good valves (like stainless steel Manly), performance springs, retainers (maybe titanium for lighter weight?), and locks... well... it ain't gonna be cheap.

check out the partiot cast iron vortec heads. They come with 185cc intake runners and the big valves. They also come with screw in studs and guide plates. You can get them with valve springs already installed or with out springs so you can use your own. On ebay they are much cheaper than summit or jegs also.

Rick

check out the partiot cast iron vortec heads. They come with 185cc intake runners and the big valves. They also come with screw in studs and guide plates. You can get them with valve springs already installed or with out springs so you can use your own. On ebay they are much cheaper than summit or jegs also.

Rick

Do you have Patriot heads, and have you had any problems with them? I've read some posts where some people were having trouble with them, perhaps aluminum ones, I can't remember.

I don't have a set of them personally but several guys over at Team Chevelle are running them with good luck. I am going to get a set of them after Christmas. If they work out they would be a good bang for the buck. Patriot is selling them on ebay for a good price. If you get them directly from patriot they come pocket ported with a 5 angle valve job for around $650 a pair. You can get them without the porting on ebay for $470 a pair shipped. Just telling people to give them a look. I have talked to several people who have bought them and they are all happy with no problems. I know people have had problems with the patriot aluminum heads. these are cast iron.

Rick

I would try to avoid patriot all together. POOOOOR quality control, oh and their aluminum heads just down right suck.
I would go for a re built set of vortec heads, rip them off of a junker, tons of gm's got them, you could get them dirt cheap and build them up to what ever level you want, but by then you would have spent almost as much money on them as a decent aluminum head costs that will out perform the vortec.

Both sets listed above will far out perform any production small block head. I've used the production Vortecs in circle track racing for years and had very good results with them. I switched to the small port Bowtie Vortecs this year and saw a measurable difference over the production Vortecs, both sets topping a flat top 358 sbc. You will have to use a Vortec type intake on both heads, and the exhaust ports are raised on the Bowtie Vortecs so you'll have to buy specific headers or modify the ones you have to fit. I modified mine by slotting them with a dremel, then tack welded washers to the headers after fitting the headers to the heads, to make sure they did'nt move. I paid $1060 shipped to my door (Scoggin-Dickey) for the Bowtie Vortecs. Nice heads, American made.

pic...http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn331/ccr88/100_0275.jpg

another pic...http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn331/ccr88/100_0276.jpg

This was my test bed....http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn331/ccr88/100_0322.jpg

Summit's prices list the production Vortecs as assembled, the Bowtie Vortecs as bare. Scoggin-Dickey was the cheapest place I found for assembled heads. Not trying to drum up business for them, just thought I'd pass that on.

Summit's prices list the production Vortecs as assembled, the Bowtie Vortecs as bare. Scoggin-Dickey was the cheapest place I found for assembled heads. Not trying to drum up business for them, just thought I'd pass that on.

Thanks for the source; I'll check them out. And cool engine and car you have - that must be a blast!

It WAS a blast......I've since retired from circle track racing after 17 years and have started a new project......http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f306/tilley88/100_1032-1.jpg