aight guys i need your expert opinions here, and b4 i continue YES i do know how critical it is for the flat tappet break-in to go perfect:sad:, let me start off by giving u the run down on the engine, its a BBC IV 454 wit 427 guts, 30 over, cast iron heads, air gap, 750 DP, MSD 6AL, and the killer is the mechanical flat tappet compcam magnum series, .530/.530, and a whole new compcam valvetrain

this is my first project car, had the long block done, i took over after that. the car didnt start the first crank nor did it give any sign of combustion, just light poping, but nothing close to it getting going, triple check timing, reinstalled dizzy, pulled the wires to find that it was all correct, checked for fuel, had too much actually, pulled plugs to dry them out, got spark, tho i did only check sparkplug wire number 1, didnt check for vaccuum leaks becuase i only got vaccuum for brakes, vac. advance, and electric choke, and the was no problem there, and other ports were plugged, so we considered it being that i adjusted the valves too much, i had did it to 1/2 turn after zero lash, so we did them over, to 1/4 turn. gave it another shot and still got nothing, made a lil more noticeable poping but nothing, sumthing seemed very wrong, something had to have been completely wrong, but we checked as much as we could but still no go, by now i have cranked the engine many times and still no go so we gave up.

i dont know too much out carbs, but 1 of the things we came up with is that it may have to do wit the carb since there was ALOT of gas in the cc's . the carb was a refurbished 750 DP #4779 from holley so i didnt touch the thing just slapped it on.

but either way, my friends mention that it could be that the cam is gone, i did a lil bit of research on these kinda cams and all signs pointed to yes, asked a few engine builders ad they say the same now im at the crossroads of deciding what to do next, my brother wants to give it another try but with an adjjusted, possibly smaller carb, but i on the other hand im getting the feeling that the cam is done for, i dont know wat to do next? is there i can test something to see if the cam is worn without taking it apart?im kinda bummed out about it, dont be too hard on me :beers:

How the heck could it be the cam when you didn't even have it fired up?:confused:....The motor needs to run for the cam to wear out!....I suspect ignition timing!:yes:

i just heard from a couple ppl that it happened to, they didnt really get it running and just cranked it all day and it was worn when they pulled the cam out, they said new stiff springs didnt help...

In my opinion 1st thing is the valves are probably adjusted to tight and that would make some poping, 2nd you pull the valve covers off take out all the plugs and turn the motor over by hand at the crank, this is where you want to watch the lift of each rocker arm. If they have good lift then take one at a time at the top of its lift measure from a point on the rocker are (push rod side) to the head on every one of the rockers. If they are all the same then the cam is ok, and possibly a (carb or ignition problem). But you should still check for a vacuum leak.
Hope this helps.

Im not really sure how your adjusting your valves,but if thats a solid mechanical according to the specs on that cam your supposed to be setting your valve lash @ .022 intakes and .022 exhaust.hope this helps

How the heck could it be the cam when you didn't even have it fired up?:confused:....The motor needs to run for the cam to wear out!....I suspect ignition timing!:yes:X2....... Distributer is off 180* or firing order.

Im not really sure how your adjusting your valves,but if thats a solid mechanical according to the specs on that cam your supposed to be setting your valve lash @ .022 intakes and .022 exhaust.hope this helpsX2 and he probably has the valves hung open.

i just heard from a couple ppl that it happened to, they didnt really get it running and just cranked it all day and it was worn when they pulled the cam out, they said new stiff springs didnt help...


That's complete BS unless the cam was made out of plastic or rubber!.....Do you really think a cam manufacturer is going to make a cam that will wear out by cranking the motor??.....I think not!


And also, why would it take all day to get the motor fired up unless they didn't have a clue as to what they were doing!

I'm sorry but i think your brother doesn't know how to adjust valves. Check your cam card specs and adjust your solids like the link says bellow. I hope this helps.


http://www.camaros.net/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=977365

X2....... Distributer is off 180* or firing order.

thats 1 of the things that i am confident about is the firing order 18436572 clockwise, found TDC wit a piston stop, at tdc its pointing directly to the # 1 spark plug wire

I'm sorry but i think your brother doesn't know how to adjust valves. Check your cam spec card.

sorry that would b me, and i deserve that, I read up on alot of sites including this 1, about valve adjustment, and even asked the engine builder, and said the safest adjustment is to get the slob out and then give it a 1/4 turn, this "valve lash @ .022 intakes and .022 exhaust" is new to me, can someone give me the run down?:beers: thanx for the responses so far guys, lots of good stuff

You need to set the valve lash to .022 intakes and .022 exhaust your valves are not lashed properly.Theres nothing wrong with that cam

thats 1 of the things that i am confident about is the firing order 18436572 clockwise, found DC wit a piston stop, at DC its pointing directly to the # 1 spark plug wireYeah but on which stroke. All you gotta do is pull #1 and tap the motor over have your brother put his thumb over the spark plug hole and when it blows his thumb off pull the cap to see if it is pointing at #1.

You need to set the valve lash to .022 intakes and .022 exhaust your valves are not lashed properly.Theres nothing wrong with that camI agree with all the above, but first check to make sure your not 180* off on the dizzy.

Yeah but on which stroke. All you gotta do is pull #1 and tap the motor over have your brother put his thumb over the spark plug hole and when it blows his thumb off pull the cap to see if it is pointing at #1.

when i originally set it all i made sure it was on the intake compression stroke, and that is after the intake valve went up then down

Im not really sure how your adjusting your valves,but if thats a solid mechanical according to the specs on that cam your supposed to be setting your valve lash @ .022 intakes and .022 exhaust.hope this helps

X3, I see people setting up a solid cam as a hydraulic pretty often:(

thats 1 of the things that i am confident about is the firing order 18436572 clockwise, found TDC wit a piston stop, at tdc its pointing directly to the # 1 spark plug wire

Yes, But is it TDC after the Exhaust Valve closed, or TDC after the Intake Valve Closed ? ( compression firing stroke ) Best way to find the firing position is to take out #1 plug and bump it over until it pops your finger off, then look at the timing tag, it should be real close. I usually set it at 10* BTDC then make sure the cap is wired correctly and make sure the rotor is pointing directly at #1 terminal on the cap.
Depending on how much you cranked it attempting to start it, the camshaft Might still be OK. Better to pull the Intake and check and reapply more cam lube, its easy on a B.B., you can reapply it in the valley as you can see the cam lobes. This sounds like a lot of work, but it is better than wiping the lobes off and littering the engine with metal.

sorry that would b me, and i deserve that, I read up on allot of sites including this 1, about valve adjustment, and even asked the engine builder, and said the safest adjustment is to get the slob out and then give it a 1/4 turn, this "valve lash @ .022 intakes and .022 exhaust" is new to me, can someone give me the run down?:beers: thanx for the responses so far guys, lots of good stuffDamian no bull****, everyone here knows its in the valve adjustment or the timing or both, most importantly is if you have your cam card specs they will tell you what to set your valve lash at, and yes the other gentlemen said .022 on both intake and exhaust (you better start right there) cam is fine no damage done yet but adjust like the link i gave you above.
Here it is again
http://www.camaros.net/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=977365

You TC guys type way to Fast for me, You all beat me to it.

Heres 1 way of doing valve lash,make sure you read for solid lifters because it shows how to do hydraulic also.:thumbsup:


http://www.centuryperformance.com/adjusting-valve-lash-spg-149.html

thanx alot guys u gave me a lot of hope, ill forsure look into the valves and timing/firing order again, i'll check out the link u gave me and do more research , ill keep u guys updated, and hopefully this saturday ill have a cool video of it all for u, but keep throwing any other ideas out there if u have them:beers:

Damian thats all you should concentrate on and it will be fine. Good luck buddy and take your time.

Did you run a compression test?

That cam is a solid lifter cam, so you need to be using a feeler gauge to set the valves, not the hydraulic lifter method. The valves are not adjusted correctly. The cam card tells you what size feeler gauge to use. Here is what Comp says for your cam:

SOLID-Good for everyday driving.Works .022 .022 1800 to 5800 11-217-4 270S 270 270 224 224 .530 .530 110°
good with headers. In 396-402 use
slightly lower gears. Slightly rough idle.

Intake and exhaust: .022". This is the feeler gauge size to place between the rocker arm roller and the valve. Then I run the nut down until the valve starts to open, then I back off until the feeler gauge just starts to move. It needs to have a slight drag on the feeler gauge.

That cam is a solid lifter cam, so you need to be using a feeler gauge to set the valves, not the hydraulic lifter method. The valves are not adjusted correctly. The cam card tells you what size feeler gauge to use. Here is what Comp says for your cam:

SOLID-Good for everyday driving.Works .022 .022 1800 to 5800 11-217-4 270S 270 270 224 224 .530 .530 110°
good with headers. In 396-402 use
slightly lower gears. Slightly rough idle.

Intake and exhaust: .022". This is the feeler gauge size to place between the rocker arm roller and the valve. Then I run the nut down until the valve starts to open, then I back off until the feeler gauge just starts to move. It needs to have a slight drag on the feeler gauge.


thanx man that seems very do-able, ill bee doing this in the next couple days, and i will take the other guys advice of taking the intake off and adding more lube to the cam and re install the dizzy and timing again thanx guys:yes:

I would also use an additive called ZDDPlus or equivilent. I used straight 30W and 2 bottles of ZDDPlus(7qt pan). Some use Rotella. Either way, I would add the either ZDDPlus or something that boosts the zinc/phophorus. I run this additive all the time, not just at break in. It's a must with the new crap oils.

Please don't take offense to what I'm about to say but.. Sounds like you have a bunch of money invested in your motor and at this point I would STRONGLY reccomend having someone who knows what their doing help you get it dialed in even if you have to pay them a few bucks....If your 180 off on the timing and you're looking down the carb while cranking it you could blow your eyebrows off....

thanx man that seems very do-able, ill bee doing this in the next couple days, and i will take the other guys advice of taking the intake off and adding more lube to the cam and re install the dizzy and timing again thanx guys:yes:

that better BE do-able, cause you are going to be doing it every 3000 miles or so....................

Please don't take offense to what I'm about to say but.. Sounds like you have a bunch of money invested in your motor and at this point I would STRONGLY reccomend having someone who knows what their doing help you get it dialed in even if you have to pay them a few bucks....If your 180 off on the timing and you're looking down the carb while cranking it you could blow your eyebrows off....

I 2nd this. He is not saying this to be rude, but if in fact you do have a lot of money in this engine and you are not ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY 100% SURE about how this procedure is performed, then you should have someone who knows EXACTLY how it's done do it. There is no shame in asking for help. EVERYONE on this site has had to do it at one point or another. I know I have and I am glad I did on some things. Had I not, my car/engine would be the worlds largest paper weight or flower pot.:D

UPDATE! well guys im back, today was my second try at starting it, i had pulled the intake, cam was fine, relubed it, adjusted the valves correctly this time haha, set timing up again, crank that baby and actually got combustion this time, so i know we were gonna get sometoday ahah, and then the adjusted the timing a lil, and bam fired up, i held it for 25+ min starting at 3k -2.5k, my trigger switch for my entropy electric fans didnt kick in so i grounded the wires to manually kick the fans on and had a back up big industrial fan, man those headers were glowing and spitting out fire.

1 problem that i have to check out in a couple days is when we were trying to push the car back into the garage, i couldnt get into any gear, and i pulled the plate to see that the bolt that holds the to the bracket that holds the cable came off, so i crawled under the car to put it in gear at the tranny manually and the level would not budge, i hope nothing seized up b/c it worked fine b4 i could easily move it back hand, i didnt take a close look at anything just yet, it was late and dark and i wanted to end on a good note, so wat do u guys think it could b? the lever is right next to the flaming collectors...


and oh yea here is the vid!

YouTube - HSS 1969 Camaro BBC 427 Startup

well thats cool .its alive.sounds good.cant wait to fire mine up for the first time

Man that was cool. Its great to have all that help with your friends and a great idea having that fire extinguisher after seeing those glowing headers, that sounded awesome cant wait to hear that thing idle. What combo did you use for the 427?

Man that was cool. Its great to have all that help with your friends and a great idea having that fire extinguisher after seeing those glowing headers, that sounded awesome cant wait to hear that thing idle. What combo did you use for the 427?

aww man i cant believe sum1 didnt record the when i brought it down to 800-900rpm, it sounded like the world was coming to an end, everything vibrated like crazy, it melted part of the carpet under my feet! hahaha, but it was fun, great to get it going, it was a huge accomplishment for me, its my first project car and i dove into this head first, a year ago i didnt know much about cars other than i wanted a 69' maro, so i got it tore it down, to frame, and built it up and did 99% of the work myself thanx alot to this site and google and friends haha, it was a good xmas present to myself.:hurray:

to get the 427 i used a gen IV 454 4 bolt hi perf block (89-90 chevy truck), .030 over, arp everything, forged eagle 427 crank, probe forged I-beam 6.385 rods, keith black forged pistons, CR should be at 9.67, with some nice 781 heads with 118cc chambers, 2.19intake,1.78 exshaust:beers:

aww man i cant believe sum1 didnt record the when i brought it down to 800-900rpm, it sounded like the world was coming to an end, everything vibrated like crazy, it melted part of the carpet under my feet! hahaha, but it was fun, great to get it going, it was a huge accomplishment for me, its my first project car and i dove into this head first, a year ago i didnt know much about cars other than i wanted a 69' maro, so i got it tore it down, to frame, and built it up and did 99% of the work myself thanx alot to this site and google and friends haha, it was a good xmas present to myself.:hurray:

to get the 427 i used a gen IV 454 4 bolt hi perf block (89-90 chevy truck), .030 over, arp everything, forged eagle 427 crank, probe forged I-beam 6.385 rods, keith black forged pistons, CR should be at 9.67, with some nice 781 heads with 118cc chambers, 2.19intake,1.78 exshaust:beers:
how about another video of it running at idle?:beers:

i would love to but i got to work out a few kinks b4 i mess with it again, i have nothing but e-brake, gotta bleed the system for the new front drilled and slotted rotors, im going to temperary wire the electric fan trigger switch to the inside to manually turn them on, until i can figure out y it didnt kick on, imma email entropy see if i can get another 1.

that and like i posted earlier, i gotta figure out wats going on wit the tranny, the lever on the tranny is locked up, wont budge, it was fine b4, could sumthing have seize up inside since it was next to the flaming headers? i was also at the time breaking in a torque coverter, i did just like he said, i put 1 quart in the TC b4 installation, put about 6 quarts in the tranny b4 start up, then while its running my brother added quart after quart until filled, did i do sumthing wrong?

I second the earlier reply about adding the oil supplements, even after break-in, or you WILL wipe out that cam. There are a lot of articles out there on the web about the new oil formulations lacking additives that protect older engines.

The headers should not be getting that hot. Sounds like you have the ignition retarded, or your fuel/air mixture is wrong. Get a handle on this problem before you burn something up. Even open headers on a car should not be melting carpet. This is not a nitromethane burning top fuel car! :p