I want to use headers on my '69 350, but it's been 25 years since I've had headers. A lot has changed.

1. I'm using Vortec heads on my 350. Will that require a different type/style of header, or can I simply order a set for a '69 Camaro?

2. What are the advantages/disadvantages of long tube headers vs. shortys?

Thanks!

Get headers for a 69 Camaro. Depending, they will come with bolts, gaskets, collectors, and collector gaskets and bolts.

Hookers come with decent paper gaskets, and black small head bolts that are too short (3/8-16, 3/4" long) Particularly with alluminum heads, I like to use a 1" bolt (ones I get have both a 3/6" hex and an allen drive). Tricky to get them in, but plenty of thread engagement once they are there.

One thing that's changed in 25 years is headers coatings. Absolutely get ceramic coated headers. The coating will wear like iron, look great for a decade or more, won't chip, flake, or rust. Most pre-coated headers are dull silver.

You might check Jet Hot directly, too. They sell several name brand new headers with thier coatings, best available and lots of choices.

After reading all the recommendations on this site about the Thorley tri-y 376y's, I finally gave in and ordered a set. There's plenty of clearance around the power steering box and they tuck in nicely underneath (just like everyone said). I just put a set of vortec heads on my car and have yet to crank the car but these headers appear to fit fine on them. Do a search and you'll find that Thorley's and Doug's headers seem to be popular as far as fit and quality are concerned. Hope this helps!

I'd probably stay away from Hooker Headers, the fitment on mine were terrible. I may even end up needing different ones as they hang down past the subframe way too far.

Ihave hedman 15/8coated headers theyfit awesome. Had them on there for 6 years now and the only leak i had was when i hit one of themona speed bump. They may be an issue if you have power steering i have manualsteering and there is about3/16 formthe box to the header.

Ihave hedman 15/8coated headers theyfit awesome. Had them on there for 6 years now and the only leak i had was when i hit one of themona speed bump. They may be an issue if you have power steering i have manualsteering and there is about3/16 formthe box to the header.

I think your keyboard and Star Wars have something in common - you need to check out the space bar...

I have free shipping on Dougs D368 coated headers :)
http://cs3automotive.com/index.php?a=PROD:1328

I wouldn't knock Hooker headers. If you have 302/350 frame stands - they fit fine. I tried DynoMax headers prior to this and they would not fit. I have heard that with 307/327 frame stands they fit well. It all depends on what frame stands are being used.

I hate my Super Comp Hookers. To many things wrong to list here. Go to photo #229 on my web site for the latest compilation of problems.
I had these coated by Jet Hot. My son bought a smaller set. He didn't have them coated but did it himself. I forgot to tell him to sandblast first. Yep, peeled as soon as we lit her off. Damn. That HAS NOT CHANGED EITHER. Lot's of these headers have fake paint.

I wouldn't knock Hooker headers. If you have 302/350 frame stands - they fit fine. I tried DynoMax headers prior to this and they would not fit. I have heard that with 307/327 frame stands they fit well. It all depends on what frame stands are being used.

I actually have a big block, the proper frame and engine mounts, and even a 670 slimline Lee steering box. I called Hooker and asked which where the proper headers to fit and bought those (#2457), this is what I had to do:
http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l346/Marroweter/Engine/Engine%20Install/EngineInstall032.jpg

Not uncommon and and if it was just that I would care so much, but this is the kind of clearance I got:
http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l346/Marroweter/Engine/Engine%20Install/EngineInstall066.jpg

Header hangs down about 3-4 inches below the subframe. Not to mention why would you put one corner of the end flange facing down? I could get an easy 3/4 inch more clearance just putting the point facing up instead of down... They are nice looking and cheap considering the ceramic coating, but leave much to be desired around fitment.

I actually have a big block, the proper frame and engine mounts, and even a 670 slimline Lee steering box. I called Hooker and asked which where the proper headers to fit and bought those (#2457), this is what I had to do:
http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l346/Marroweter/Engine/Engine%20Install/EngineInstall032.jpg

Not uncommon and and if it was just that I would care so much, but this is the kind of clearance I got:
http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l346/Marroweter/Engine/Engine%20Install/EngineInstall066.jpg

Header hangs down about 3-4 inches below the subframe. Not to mention why would you put one corner of the end flange facing down? I could get an easy 3/4 inch more clearance just putting the point facing up instead of down... They are nice looking and cheap considering the ceramic coating, but leave much to be desired around fitment.
There you go! Another bitch to put on my web site. Mine is the same way. I was thinking that maybe I was being too picky if I mentioned it. Photo #229, here I come.:yes: At least mine don't hang this low.

There you go! Another bitch to put on my web site. Mine is the same way. I was thinking that maybe I was being too picky if I mentioned it. Photo #229, here I come.:yes: At least mine don't hang this low.

Yup mine are the same way but I look it on a positive note. If they are going to hit something (speed bumps in parking lots for exampe) then at least they scrape the flange and not the header tube itself. It kind of reminds you not to travel that route with your car anymore. With everyone wanting to lower their cars these days (drop spindles, huge wheels with narrow profile tires and all) it it is no wonder undercar clearance problems surface.

Mark, my car has a 350 with AC, PS and PB. I am using Hooker 2451 headers with Jet Hot Coating. They fit my car great except I removed the reverse lock out linkage since I had only 1/16 inch clearance and thought that would be too tight.

Fred and others, Are you sure your Big Block engines are offset 1" to the passenger side ? Big Block engines must be or your headers won't fit.

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii152/tjs69_photos/engine%20and%20frame%20mounts/offset.jpg

to tjs69, i agree you have to use bb stands and motor mts. for correct fit i have dart heads on my bbc which have raised exh. ports any idea which headers to use? engine wants 2 1/8 dia to make matters worse. don't really want to go the custom header route

Fred and others, Are you sure your Big Block engines are offset 1" to the passenger side ? Big Block engines must be or your headers won't fit.

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii152/tjs69_photos/engine%20and%20frame%20mounts/offset.jpg
I forget! Oh wait, it's coming back to me,,,, YES! I ordered the car with an L78! And another thing, I remember now that I bought the L88 engine a year before ordering the car! Yes! It's all becoming clear now. And I'll be damned if the original mounts aren't still in place,,,,,;) and fan, and, and,;);) I hate my Hookers.

Yep mine is, I even measured the frame mounts before putting in the engine:
http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l346/Marroweter/Engine/Engine%20Install/EngineInstall049.jpg

Hard to see from the angle for the picture but if you look close in person you can see the offset. There is no way even with beating it would have ever fit (w/o relocating a header tube) if it wasn't.

to tjs69, i agree you have to use bb stands and motor mts. for correct fit i have dart heads on my bbc which have raised exh. ports any idea which headers to use? engine wants 2 1/8 dia to make matters worse. don't really want to go the custom header route

.........good luck finding a set of mass produced headers to work correctly with those raised exhaust ports. You might find something "close" but be prepared to do the "hammer dance" on 'em if you don't go the custom header route. I switched to a set of Lemons Headers for my raised port headed BB and clearance and fitment issues are no longer an issue.

i figured that was going to be the case but hope springs eternal. i've looked at lemons website. any others out there worth looking at?

i figured that was going to be the case but hope springs eternal. i've looked at lemons website. any others out there worth looking at?


Try here...........http://www.stahlheaders.com/index.htm

not as expensive as Lemons.

Fred, I looked at your photobucket pictures and yours does look offset. Ed something looks wrong with your picture. I drew a line from the body line on the cowl to the body line of the nose panel, and your air cleanercenter is right on that line. I then drew a line from the body line of the nose panel, through the center of the hood latch, and extended this line and it did not line up with the body line on the cowl !

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii152/tjs69_photos/engine%20and%20frame%20mounts/BB69RS.jpg

Sorry, I cut the bottom of the picture off !

What did you use for a transmission crossmember ? Does it have one for a Big Block ? If not your engine may be twisted in the engine bay.

to tjs69, i agree you have to use bb stands and motor mts. for correct fit i have dart heads on my bbc which have raised exh. ports any idea which headers to use? engine wants 2 1/8 dia to make matters worse. don't really want to go the custom header route
I had the Dart 335 CNC head on my bbc. Exhaust is raised .300. I used Hooker super comps. 2-1/8 header with bb frame mounts and moroso engine mounts. I had to clearance a idler arm bolt. But other then that they fit well.

My pic isn't exactly taken from the center, the angle is actually slightly offset to the left so I think this is throwing things off. I tried taking another picture with tap measure to give better perspective, but I can't hold the camera and the tape measure at the same time lol.

Here is what I think is a better picture:
http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l346/Marroweter/Engine/Engine%20Install/EngineInstall067sm.jpg

If I measure it looks like I have a about 3/4-1" offset.

As far as a crossmember goes, I still have to put in my new trans with my new G-Force crossmember:
http://www.transmissioncenter.org/HPIM189-3.jpg

Right now I just have a 700R4 in it with the old crossmember holding things in place

My pic isn't exactly taken from the center, the angle is actually slightly offset to the left so I think this is throwing things off. I tried taking another picture with tap measure to give better perspective, but I can't hold the camera and the tape measure at the same time lol.

Here is what I think is a better picture:
http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l346/Marroweter/Engine/Engine%20Install/EngineInstall067sm.jpg

If I measure it looks like I have a about 3/4-1" offset.

As far as a crossmember goes, I still have to put in my new trans with my new G-Force crossmember:
http://www.transmissioncenter.org/HPIM189-3.jpg

Right now I just have a 700R4 in it with the old crossmember holding things in place
That trany crossmember for a 700R4 won't do it. The drive train needs to be parallel with the cars centerline. The driveshaft will otherwise vibrate.
And it sure looks to be wrong in your picture too.

Fred, I looked at your photobucket pictures and yours does look offset. Ed something looks wrong with your picture. I drew a line from the body line on the cowl to the body line of the nose panel, and your air cleanercenter is right on that line. I then drew a line from the body line of the nose panel, through the center of the hood latch, and extended this line and it did not line up with the body line on the cowl !

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii152/tjs69_photos/engine%20and%20frame%20mounts/BB69RS.jpg

Sorry, I cut the bottom of the picture off !

What did you use for a transmission crossmember ? Does it have one for a Big Block ? If not your engine may be twisted in the engine bay.
Thanks Tom, but I suspected as much.:D

Ed, your picture looks to me, maybe a 1/4" offset at best. Your G - force crossmember doesn't look offset either. measure from the subframe mounting holes to the transmission mounting holes. One measurement should be 1" more. On the engine, take the big spinner off of your air cleaner, and measure from the carb stud to the inside of each fender. Your drivers side measurement should be 1" greater.

The more I look at your picture, the more the engine looks crooked in the engine bay ! As Fred has said, Your Engine and transmission should be parallel to the cars centerline. I don't think your existing or the new crossmembers are offset.

I messed around with your picture, of your NEW crossmember and it may indeed be offset. Just measure it to be sure. I only messed with the center flat bar. Again measure from the outside subframe bolt holes to the mounting holes to see if they are in fact offset.

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii152/tjs69_photos/engine%20and%20frame%20mounts/Edscrossmember.jpg

i checked out the stahl website and will give them a call before plunking down cash. to rt wonder what hooker part number you used? also did they hang down underneath or tuck up the way they should? how about p/s clearance?

i checked out the stahl website and will give them a call before plunking down cash. to rt wonder what hooker part number you used? also did they hang down underneath or tuck up the way they should? how about p/s clearance?
Hooker #2285 My car has manual steering. I don't remember if they were tight against the floor or hung low. I know that I had some road rash on the collector flang. My car sit a little low.I have a set of lemon headers in the car now ..
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/69DodgeRT/IMG_3006.jpg

Hooker #2285 My car has manual steering. I don't remember if they were tight against the floor or hung low. I know that I had some road rash on the collector flang. My car sit a little low.I have a set of lemon headers in the car now ..
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/69DodgeRT/IMG_3006.jpg

Awesome Camaro:yes::thumbsup::thumbsup:

David F.

thanks for the info. seems it's hooker for the price and then
on to something that fits the way it should. will talk to stahl and lemons. may as well bite the bullet up front and not have two or three sets of headers lying around gathering dust.

I messed around with your picture, of your NEW crossmember and it may indeed be offset.

It most certainly is. Before I bought it I called them and they stated it was offset by 1" and you had about 1" of adjustment (the bolt holes are elongated as seen in the pic):

http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l346/Marroweter/Transmission/Transmission008.jpg

Pretty easy to see from the above pic, plus just went out the garage and measured the 1" offset.

Thanks thou!


Also in my existing engine bay pic the transmission is attached to the motor but the crossmember is just wedged in there to hold it, so it certainly possible that might explain the motor not being perfectly aligned (or just my bad pics ;) )

ANOTHER satisfied customer!:thumbsup:

Thought I'd share how headers ought to fit out of the box, especially considering the prices that are out there. I have the 302/350 motor mounts and stands. Thanks to everyone who has shared their header experiences so I didn't have to go thru needless headeraches. These are Thorley 376y coated. Hope this helps!

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i118/37jd/IMG_0465.jpg
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i118/37jd/IMG_0467.jpg
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i118/37jd/IMG_0468.jpg

I have the 302/350 motor mounts and stands. Thanks to everyone who has shared their header experiences so I didn't have to go thru needless headeraches. These are Thorley 376y coated. Hope this helps!




Nice fitment! I wish my Hooker's fit that way :sad:

That looks sweet...

Nice fitment! I wish my Hooker's fit that way :sad:Speaking of Hookers are you referring to BB Hookers, because i may need to buy BB Headers and i don't know which ones clear and whats the best bang for the buck... I was told that Hooker got bought out by Holley and made some changes but not to sure... Id like to get a set jet coated if possible for $400.00...... Ed i just checked out your build and what a nice job at that and yes it is a BB set of Hooker Headers you were talking about. You would think that Hooker would have made a better fit header.

Awesome Camaro:yes::thumbsup::thumbsup:

David F.
Thanks :cool:

Speaking of Hookers are you referring to BB Hookers, because i may need to buy BB Headers and i don't know which ones clear and whats the best bang for the buck... I was told that Hooker got bought out by Holley and made some changes but not to sure... Id like to get a set jet coated if possible for $400.00...... Ed i just checked out your build and what a nice job at that and yes it is a BB set of Hooker Headers you were talking about. You would think that Hooker would have made a better fit header.
If you buy Hooker headers for your BBC. Buy the Super comp headers. They are more money then the comp headers, But they fit better.

Ed, Thanks, for the top view photo of your G-Force crossmember. I still wonder about the crossmember that is now in your car. I am not on a mission to prove anyone wrong. I just feel the Hooker's should have fit, MUCH better than what you have shown ! I also have had reports of them fitting with No mods ! Are you sure your headers are for the 1st gens, as they are different for 2 gens.

4sspd69, Do you have a picure of the passenger side header ? Do you have a/c ? Thanks, Tom

Ed, Thanks, for the top view photo of your G-Force crossmember. I still wonder about the crossmember that is now in your car. I am not on a mission to prove anyone wrong. I just feel the Hooker's should have fit, MUCH better than what you have shown ! I also have had reports of them fitting with No mods ! Are you sure your headers are for the 1st gens, as they are different for 2 gens.

Summit lists them as working with 1st Gen Camaros with a BBC. I also called Hooker and asked them which headers would work. They gave me 2 part#s one for a comp header (#2457) and another for a super comp (forget which #), both were ceramic coated. So I am pretty sure I have the right number. Maybe the super comps would have fit better but if I remember right it was like $400 for the comps and like 800 or 900 for the super comps.

I can tell you that the existing cross-member won't mount up hence why I just wedged it in there for now.

Thorley's come with a lifetime warranty. They also fit and dont burn plug wires, they fit, look good, fit, come with a lifetime warranty, fit in the chassis, did i mention they fit?


Ive installed Thorley tri-y's on chevy vans, dodge motorhomes, 4wd pickups etc and have never had an issue. Hooker headers always remind me of something that Harbor Freight would sell if they sold performance parts.


Chris:cool:

Chris, are you talking Big Block headers or just the small blocks ? We have above pictures on a small block. They are the 376Y's on 302/350 frame mounts. Can you confirm on a Big block ? And if they are on BBC frame mounts ?

If you buy Hooker headers for your BBC. Buy the Super comp headers. They are more money then the comp headers, But they fit better.Thank you R/T ill look in to it.

Summit lists them as working with 1st Gen Camaros with a BBC. I also called Hooker and asked them which headers would work. They gave me 2 part#s one for a comp header (#2457) and another for a super comp (forget which #), both were ceramic coated. So I am pretty sure I have the right number. Maybe the super comps would have fit better but if I remember right it was like $400 for the comps and like 800 or 900 for the super comps.

I can tell you that the existing cross-member won't mount up hence why I just wedged it in there for now.Ed how do they clear under the car at the collectors. If you have any pics of that, id greatly appreciate it.. Thanks Skip

Here's the requested passenger side photos of the Thorley 376y's. I'm not sure if they'll work on an a/c car or not. Again, I'm using the 302/350 motor mounts and stands. Hope this helps!

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i118/37jd/IMG_0477.jpg

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i118/37jd/IMG_0478.jpg

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i118/37jd/IMG_0479.jpg

Thank You, for those photos 4sspd69. I would like to see a photo of the Thorleys with factory air. Any one have one ? Any one have Thorley's on a big block ? Also, Ed, you still have not told us, what you are currently using for a transmission crossmember yet, either. We know your new one is offset, but what about the one you had in when you had to smash those Hooker Headers all to he** ? The Pontiac Firebird crossmember also looks like a Chevy Big Block crossmember, but it does not have offset mounting holes.

Ed how do they clear under the car at the collectors. If you have any pics of that, id greatly appreciate it.. Thanks Skip

No problem here you go Skeeter (posted earlier in this thread):
...this is the kind of clearance I got:
http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l346/Marroweter/Engine/Engine%20Install/EngineInstall066.jpg

Header hangs down about 3-4 inches below the subframe.

Anyone running the Patriot headers on a small block 69?

Thanks.

I looked at 4sspd69's pictures with great interest as I would like headers that fit properly. But I have yet to see SBC headers that indicate they are for 69 Camaro's with AC, 4-speed, and power steering. I've seen SBC headers listed to fit a combo of two of those options, but not all three. Anyone?

I looked at 4sspd69's pictures with great interest as I would like headers that fit properly. But I have yet to see SBC headers that indicate they are for 69 Camaro's with AC, 4-speed, and power steering. I've seen SBC headers listed to fit a combo of two of those options, but not all three. Anyone?

Hooker #2451...fits my SBC with A/C, PB, PS but with auto transmission but the application guide says it fits 4 speed too.

http://www.chromwerk.at/PDF/hooker_catalog_2007.pdf