Guys, I''m new to the forum, need some help with a car I have found. I turn 40 this year and have always wanted a car from the year I was born to restore. Have come across a 1969 Z28 X77 with matching 302 motor. The car has been in primer for some time, so the car is 60 covered with surface rust, but no holes. The interior is there but rough, it has a 4 speed tranny, and has the original wheels. The motor is not in the car, but he did show it to me. The glass is all good and the floors and trunk pan look good. The guy wants $12,500 for it. I know price is all relative to what buyer is willing to pay, and what seller is willing to ask. Is this reasonable, too high, a good deal, etc.

Any input would be appreciated

Jeff, got pictures? it's easily worth $12,500 for a Z with matching 302. the body would have to be a total nightmare for that not to be a deal. what else is original to the car? Tranny? rear end? Post some pics and you'll get some great advice on this site

Buy it.

Jeff, that does sound like a good deal, but consider whether it is a good deal for you. I would sit down and figure out what a project like this is going to run. I think you'll be surprised.

About a year ago, I too was looking for the 69 Camaro I've always wanted when I was a kid. I had first look at a 69 Z11 pace car project in primer, parts everywhere, stored ~15 years, apart on blocks, $15,000. Great deal, right!! I estimated about $15 - 20,000+ or 5 of my years to bring it back right. My wife told me to buy it! Still, a pretty good deal . . . that's about what they were going for at the time . . . but not for me . . . much too much $$ in one car for my taste. Plus, I don't get to drive it until it's done . . and when it's done, you don't drive a $40,000 freshly restored and painted show piece to get a gallon of milk. A great deal for someone else though, I passed. :( (i know, my wife was right, as usual)

A few months later a local X77 driver with non matching motor, came available, done exactly the way I would have done it. Great paint, great motor, great car. I could not have built this car for what I paid for it at the time. The car still needs some restoration, however the restoration projects on this car are now much more in-line with my skills and my reality. I drive this car whenever possible and that's exacty the reason I wanted one in the first place. The best money I ever spent. :thumbsup:

In this climate, if you have the $$ to spend on this hobby and the patience, you should aim to buy as much car as you can afford. There will be some great deals out there, but the best deals, in my opinion, are going to be on the finished cars.

Hey Jeff, fellow Arkie here :thumbsup:

I think I know the car you're talking about. VIN ending in 942, originally Cortez silver, now in red primer?

Hi Paul that sounds like some good advice. I guess I already know what you are going to answer to my question, but for peice of mind I will ask anyway. I have a plain jane 68 Camaro that I have owned since 1986. I bought it from the original owner. It has the protecto plate and is all original except the motor, trans and rear end which I swaped out for performance items. I have been thinking of restoring the car since I bought it and never got around to it. I am just about ready to start the task, but have been reading that there may be some good deals out there with the state of the economy? I guess we will see what happens at Barrett-Jackson? Do you think restoring a car like this makes sense, or should I just try to find a decent 69 Z 28 and call it a day?

Thanks for the advice

If that car has the original engine , tans and rear end you should buy it . I firmly beleive that no mater the chassis condition you could sell that car for a profit very easily should you decide the project is too much for you . I really don't see how you could get hurt as long as everything lines up

Jeff, Welcome to Team Camaro!

As the others have said, if the car can be verified as a true Z, then the price isn't bad. If Dave (RamAirDave) knows the car, you'll want to talk to him first. We also have guys here that can spot original (vs. restamped, which are more and more common) drivetrain stampings, an original (vs. reproduction) cowl tag, etc. Also, if the car comes with most of the original components (alternator, distributor, exhaust manifolds, intake manifold, heads, carb, etc.), guys here can help verify those too.

This thread http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=138997&highlight=Z28 has a lot of good discussion and pics of original components. It's really long, but worth reading through for the detail. Even if the car appears to be "all there" at a glance, the "little" things can really add up if your trying to do a "correct" restoration.

Good luck!

Sounds like a good deal, just make sure it is was it is ....other than that its just a 25k clone running around and you will be in it way to deep!!

Okay, thanks guys, next question. Is that what's down the road, 5 years and $25,000 later, I've got the car. The body work would have to be done, but the motor, interior etc, I can tackle , just what AM I looking at budget wise to get the car I want? Ballpark!

thanks

Jeff

Depending on local labor rates and the amount of metal to be replaced, you can easily get $10K to $15K wrapped up in body work and paint. Lower end if you use overseas made sheetmetal, higher end if you get NOS GM metal.

Probably another $10K to $15K in the rest, again depending on how much you need to track down, and whether you decide to hunt down a "correct" engine and trans. A good DZ coded engine was selling for $5K to $10K a year or so ago. Haven't seen many sell lately, so I don't know if they have dropped along with most else.

There are some decent 69 Z cars with NOM (non-original motor) droppping into the $30K and $40K range these days, but again if the car you are looking at is a real Z and isn't a total basket case, it is worth buying because when all is said and done, that might be about what you have in it, but you'd know what you have.

Like I said, talk to RamAirDave about the car if it is the one he knows. He restores them for a living, so he'd know better what kind of project it is and what kind of budget to expect.

If it is in the condition you are telling us it is a good deal. If you have the 12,500 to spend, it is probably going to appreciate more in that car than in the bank. Great place to park the dough. If it is the car Ram Air Dave mentioned though, I would look closer because if Dave knows about it and it is still for sale there might be big issues you missed.

Okay, thanks guys, next question. Is that what's down the road, 5 years and $25,000 later, I've got the car. The body work would have to be done, but the motor, interior etc, I can tackle , just what AM I looking at budget wise to get the car I want? Ballpark!

thanks

Jeff

What are the labor rates for body and paint where you are Jeff? At $110 per hour here you could find yourself $30k - $40k or more into paint and body if there are any hidden surprises. It's a lot easier to hide bad body work in primer than it is glossy paint. Even doing the interior, drive train and suspension yourself you could end up spending big dollars on correct parts, plating and refinishing - it's all in the details when restoring a car like this...

Everyone I know that finishes a project like this and it's their only classic has far more money into it than they can sell it for. Some don't care as it is their hobby and they realize at the end of the ski season they wouldn't get any money back for their lift tickets and cabin rental fees if skiing was their hobby. There is another phenomena that happens to a majority of guys with this caliber of classic, after spending all the money on restoration they won't drive the car and unless they can afford a truck and trailer it sits in the garage and unless you stop by with a 6-pack you'll never get to see the car...

My guess is the labor rates are a lot less where you are and that can make a big difference. The bottom line really is what is your motive, how do you plan to use the car when done and are you willing to sink more money than you planned once the project gets sidetracked by unforseen issues that may crop up?

Check with the local votech or high school and see if any of them teach auto body. If so you only pay for the supplies. No labor cost. The only problem is they take a long time to do the work as you are teaching someone how to do the body work. I have had three cars done this way and they came out great. Not a $20,000 paint job but very nice and the cost is worth it.

If it is in the condition you are telling us it is a good deal. If you have the 12,500 to spend, it is probably going to appreciate more in that car than in the bank. Great place to park the dough. If it is the car Ram Air Dave mentioned though, I would look closer because if Dave knows about it and it is still for sale there might be big issues you missed.
Hey guys, I am a friend of Ram Air Dave's and this really sounds like the car I looked at. It was a good body but was missing the original trans and rear end. Block was definately there. Jeff i am not a buyer on it and am only interested in knowing if it is the same one. If you want it restored or inspected you need to get Ram Air Dave to go with you to look at it again. He will make sure you make no mistakes and if he gets to restore it you will be nothing but pleased. Spending a little bit of money restoring it correctly is the only way to do it. If you dont really want something done correct go with a clone of your dreamcar. Again I would do nothing else but call Dave!

Sent some pics to Jeff, same car.

Dennis ,

The guy who painted my yellow yellow Z , incredible work . He bid my other yellow Z that has some rust in the window channels and wrinkled panels. This guy works with the tools and is a master body and paint man. A real old shcool craftsman.He said he could stretch and shrink and all that good stuff and when he was finished I would have a 99% original panel Z painted for 15K . He just did another buddies 69 body that was a skeleton for 7K and the car is perfect... This guy works by himself and has a very small shop but if you look for the right guy and get lucky you can get work done for much less than 110 and hour , even in California.

The guy removed the lousy new paint job i had , lined up all the body panels properly , and I don't even want to tell you how cheap it was


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Hey Van, Car looks good, I love the yellow interior... Very cool deal deal you found... What happened to the out of state shop you were sending your cars to?

Mr. Tibbs,
Where are you in Northern Cal? Curious where the paint shop you mention is located, thanks. I'm originally from just about an hour North of Sac.

Dennis I am still using the guys in North Carolina because I have had good success with them . I agree with you there are a lot of shops that charge the big money and it is difficult to find someone who does great work for reasonable dollars.. as a matter of fact I have seen many a high dollar job that looks like scata too so as you know the price paid doesn't guarantee the quality of the job .

I have a place I use in Nor Cal that is reasonable right across the street from one of the TC sponsors Steve's Camaro's . But the guy who painted my yellow yellow Z is also in North Carolina .