I'm just getting started on building a car for Super Chevy magazine editor Evan Smith and he chose to use the Fatman front subframe and suspension along with the rear suspension kit. Anyone ever use this stuff ??? It appears to be pretty nicely made and is supposed to require very little fabrication or welding. Just wondering if anyone has any info or tips before I dive in.



Thanks.......




bob

My father-in-law and I used them last summer but it was for a 1940 Ford truck. I can't attest for your particular project but can say that they were very easy to work with if you have any problems. We had an advantage because they are about 30 minutes from home and because of our inexperience, could go straight over to the shop with questions. The guys at the counter are very knowledgeable.

It looks pretty good from the pictures how is the price.

It's alright - if you want to put an older Falcon/Maverick/Mustang suspension design on your GM vehicle.

It's alright - if you want to put an older Falcon/Maverick/Mustang suspension design on your GM vehicle.

Fatman is a very well know and respected vendor in the street rod community and they deserve to be. While I'm sure they will be right there with support should you need it there are so many choises for 1st gen suspension I would be looking at one of the companies that makes their living in the pro-touring world not the street rod world. I'm sure there is a reason why Evan Smith choose to go with Fatman. I'm also sure he knows there are many other options out there. The magazine probably wants to evaluate this set up against that of some of their other advertizers. I think this will be a very straight foward install with no drama. Let us know how it goes.

I hate to say this but , Mustang II suspension design work
I've use it in a lot of hot rods

Looks like a flimsy pile of steel to me. One crossmember and the originals had torsional problems. Are these single sheer low control arm mounted as well?

You're not going to find a lot of support for Fatman's front or rear setups on a pro touring forum. You'd probably have better luck on a pro street forum. I've never read anything positive about their offerings on any of the pro touring and g machine forums.

Don

I was always told if you cant say something good to not say anything at all....

So if you asked a question on this forum you would be looking for positve responses only? It was my honest opinion and I'm sure that's what he's looking for.

I was always told if you cant say something good to not say anything at all....

David, does that include your recent marathon whine-fest about bold type for Pro Street and the absence of a dedicated Pro Street forum?

I was told to let it go but I still think it was a good debate.I was also under the impression we were not suposed to bash products on this site but I may be wrong .I am trying to keep a low profile and it is hard and I still would like to see PRO-STREET so people would stop posting PS type threads in PT.This is all so you can hear me whine some more and its not all me that whines on TC......Where is the cheese anyway.....

WOW :eek: You guys are a tough bunch over here :D The Fatman kit was chosen for a few reason and the car isn't intended to be a full blown, hi tech, big money, state of the art "protouring" ride but more of a car built to be driven and do everything a little better that it did originally. I think that goal will be easily achieved. So far, the Fatman fabrication stuff appears to be real nice and will be mocked up shortly.

Follow along in Super Chevy as this car gets ready for its reunion with the streets :thumbsup:


Thanks for the input.................. I think.




bob

WOW :eek: You guys are a tough bunch over here :D The Fatman kit was chosen for a few reason and the car isn't intended to be a full blown, hi tech, big money, state of the art "protouring" ride but more of a car built to be driven and do everything a little better that it did originally. I think that goal will be easily achieved. So far, the Fatman fabrication stuff appears to be real nice and will be mocked up shortly.

Follow along in Super Chevy as this car gets ready for its reunion with the streets :thumbsup:


Thanks for the input.................. I think.




bobI before all the $hit started asked how the price was it looks better than the subframe I used.I not sure if I can ask or not but oh well.I think it looks OK but how is the price....This may be a deciding factor....

WOW :eek: You guys are a tough bunch over here :D ...

Wasn't trying to be "tough" - just trying to give you a true real world answer. :sad:
IMHO it was what you were asking - "wondering is anyone has any info" - yes, I do ...

... The Fatman kit was chosen for a few reason ...
... So far, the Fatman fabrication stuff appears to be real nice and will be mocked up shortly.
...

What would those reason(s) be? Price ???
You didn't state then originally.

Would a rundown of why it wouldn't be one of my choices be of any use?
Because, the stuff is based on a very dated geometry design.
From a series of Ford vehicles with very different design parameters than what we would normally be looking for in most modern well handling vehicles. It incorporates many compents that were chosen strickly for cost, production ease and interchangabilty in parts used on their other offereings to reduce inventories and increase economies-of-scale during manufacturing.
As already pointed out by someone else, the design is even less rigid than the original GM. I'm sure there are some weight savings, but at the expense of precise geometry due to flex.
The standard braking system in the kit is not suited to any serious performance use - they do offer upgrades and options to increase this, but other suppliers start with a good performance system and go up from there. Pity the poor guy that doesn't carefully evaluate the system and opt for upgrades...
If you are going for true performance handling, this is not one of the better platforms to start with.

... the car isn't intended to be a full blown, hi tech, big money, state of the art "protouring" ride but more of a car built to be driven and do everything a little better that it did originally. I think that goal will be easily achieved.
...

Oh, so it's mostly just for looks - why didn't you just say so :thumbsup:
It will most like serve quite well in a poser role ;)
It will not handle better than a GM sub with upgraded arms, brakes and steering available from many sources.


... Follow along in Super Chevy as this car gets ready for its reunion with the streets :thumbsup:
...

Oh, so this was an add for a magazine - sorry, I missed that in your first post :o
Then carry on - sell stuff :beers:


ps: Please do a good alignment on the system after you're done and record and post the spec.s - then recheck it again after a few after a few course runs or a day at the track and post back with the readings you've found them to be at now...

pss: I bet you think I don't like Fatman products - you're dead wrong, I use them on street driven rods all the time - even had their set-up on an old Chevy truck I drove. Worked okay for the cars, wasn't designed well enough for the heavier truck...
I will buy them again for street rod use :thumbsup:

I was always told if you cant say something good to not say anything at all....

Then why have open forums at all Dave - we should just let the advertizers tell us what to buy.
I think I was sick that day in school anyway...

I was always told if you cant say something good to not say anything at all....



David, does that include your recent marathon whine-fest about bold type for Pro Street and the absence of a dedicated Pro Street forum?

^^^^^ Dave.....Looks like you've gotten noticed in Pro Touring forum as well:yes:. How long before this makes it to Bench Racing??

I was told to let it go but I still think it was a good debate.I was also under the impression we were not suposed to bash products on this site but I may be wrong .I am trying to keep a low profile and it is hard and I still would like to see PRO-STREET so people would stop posting PS type threads in PT.This is all so you can hear me whine some more and its not all me that whines on TC......Where is the cheese anyway.....

^^^^This is :sad:. Why is this so important to you that you have to post it virtually every forum here?? IMO I think is does more harm than good. Why is it not sufficient that Al was nice enough to allocate some forum space for us "Pro Street" guys, you know he didn't have to do it. Why are you so concerned about the words "Pro Street" not being the same size font as "Pro Touring"? The size of the letters is irrelevant to me:yes:. What concerns me is the possibility that if this sort of posting continues, we will lose the Pro Street forum that you were so vocal about wanting.......or have you forgotten that?????? Just let it go Dave!!!!!!!!!

Pro Touring guys...........please forgive me for ranting in your forum:o. I'm just irritated that something so trivial like the size of a font has to injected into threads where it has no bearing or usefulness.

David F.

^^^^^ Dave.....Looks like you've gotten noticed in Pro Touring forum as well:yes:. How long before this makes it to Bench Racing??



^^^^This is :sad:. Why is this so important to you that you have to post it virtually every forum here?? IMO I think is does more harm than good. Why is it not sufficient that Al was nice enough to allocate some forum space for us "Pro Street" guys, you know he didn't have to do it. Why are you so concerned about the words "Pro Street" not being the same size font as "Pro Touring"? The size of the letters is irrelevant to me:yes:. What concerns me is the possibility that if this sort of posting continues, we will lose the Pro Street forum that you were so vocal about wanting.......or have you forgotten that?????? Just let it go Dave!!!!!!!!!

Pro Touring guys...........please forgive me for ranting in your forum:o. I'm just irritated that something so trivial like the size of a font has to injected into threads where it has no bearing or usefulness.

David F.I have let it go the others keep hacking at me I have kept my cool and this was not ment to start up again others cant seem to let it go. I was just saying people are posting Pro-Street threads in Pro-Touring maybe because they don't see it.You chiming in and telling me to let it go just takes it further.Why this was brought up to begin with is the fact that some do not like one product or another and down it.Is this ok to do on TC I was thinking not maybe I'm wrong on this.

WOW :eek: You guys are a tough bunch over here :D The Fatman kit was chosen for a few reason and the car isn't intended to be a full blown, hi tech, big money, state of the art "protouring" ride but more of a car built to be driven and do everything a little better that it did originally. I think that goal will be easily achieved. So far, the Fatman fabrication stuff appears to be real nice and will be mocked up shortly.

Follow along in Super Chevy as this car gets ready for its reunion with the streets :thumbsup:


Thanks for the input.................. I think.




bob
Bob,this went way off line and not because of me this time.I personaly like the DSE but my pocket would not get me there.My subframe was $2395 QA-1 shocks,power rack,aftermarket disk brakes.If you are going in the direction I think your going in this Fatman sub looks as good of quality as you need.I am sorry to have made a mockery of your thread I was trying to help I have tried to leave the past the past but some I guess cant.Again I am sorry for getting of beat.

:sad:

To the OP: I think one of the issues is that you say you want better handling than you can get with a stock subframe, yet stock subframes can be made to provide excellent results with stock UCA/LCA and the Guldstrand mod, or with tall upper balljoints and the SC&C aftermarket UCA/LCA, or the ATS tall spindle and either stock UCA/LCA or aftermarket pieces. For many of us, the Fatman sub adds nothing other than "bling." If you were to do your build, and then test the car against equal power/equal rear suspension/equal tired cars, that might be interesting. As it is however, I look at the pictures and see a piece that is not (based solely on looks, which can often be wrong) as strong as either stock or the "traditional" pro-touring pieces from DSE, AME or 21st Century Street Machine to name a few.

As for not saying anything unless you have something good to say, please! These forums are all about the exchange of information. The readers can take what's said, factor in who said it, and form their own conclusions. No one's bashed the Fatman product, they've simply suggested that for handling there are better choices out there.

To the OP: I think one of the issues is that you say you want better handling than you can get with a stock subframe, yet stock subframes can be made to provide excellent results with stock UCA/LCA and the Guldstrand mod, or with tall upper balljoints and the SC&C aftermarket UCA/LCA, or the ATS tall spindle and either stock UCA/LCA or aftermarket pieces. For many of us, the Fatman sub adds nothing other than "bling." If you were to do your build, and then test the car against equal power/equal rear suspension/equal tired cars, that might be interesting. As it is however, I look at the pictures and see a piece that is not (based solely on looks, which can often be wrong) as strong as either stock or the "traditional" pro-touring pieces from DSE, AME or 21st Century Street Machine to name a few.

As for not saying anything unless you have something good to say, please! These forums are all about the exchange of information. The readers can take what's said, factor in who said it, and form their own conclusions. No one's bashed the Fatman product, they've simply suggested that for handling there are better choices out there.
OK I get it. The statement I made was bad and didn't think it would draw this much attention.I do agree with you as far as the stock subframe with some mods it can be made much better than what I bought but my subframe was shot.He may be in the same boat I am,how is the price of fatman compared to say Alston or DSE to name a couple.

Ok so we have heard the Fatman bash but what is good mid priced setup to run. I am looking to build a daily driver 69 Camaro LS1 using the latest suspension without refinancing my worthless home?

Ok so we have heard the Fatman bash but what is good mid priced setup to run. I am looking to build a daily driver 69 Camaro LS1 using the latest suspension without refinancing my worthless home?

I don't know if you're serious or not. SC&C UCA/LCA and tall ball joints won't set you back much, combined with decent springs, shocks and sway bar will suit you quite well. For even less, you can do the Guldstrand mod and use del-alum type UCA/LCA bushings in stock UCA/LCAs, again with decent springs, shocks and a sway bar. Good handling doesn't have to cost a ton of $.

However, even though the DSE/AME parts are really expensive; that doesn't mean that low priced aftermarket subframes are better than modified stock subframes.

In fact, put a set of modern 17" wheels and low profile tires on your ride and you'll see a huge improvement with just that alone. There's a ton of information about low cost suspension builds for first generation Camaros; none of it recommends low cost "hot rod" aftermarket subframes.

I don't know if you're serious or not. SC&C UCA/LCA and tall ball joints won't set you back much, combined with decent springs, shocks and sway bar will suit you quite well. For even less, you can do the Guldstrand mod and use del-alum type UCA/LCA bushings in stock UCA/LCAs, again with decent springs, shocks and a sway bar. Good handling doesn't have to cost a ton of $.

However, even though the DSE/AME parts are really expensive; that doesn't mean that low priced aftermarket subframes are better than modified stock subframes.

In fact, put a set of modern 17" wheels and low profile tires on your ride and you'll see a huge improvement with just that alone. There's a ton of information about low cost suspension builds for first generation Camaros; none of it recommends low cost "hot rod" aftermarket subframes.

Agreed:thumbsup:

mustang II are good suspension that have single sheer low and upper control arm mounted (so dose my Chevy pickup)
it is price....and you do get what you pay for Fatman, Heidt's,Detroit Speed (if I had the money, but I don't)
Scott's Hotrod, Total Cost Involved, Art Morrison, Chassis Works, Speed-Tech, Brewer's Restoration, Martz Chassis, 21st Century, Street Rod Garage, Checke Red Racing and Stock GM :)
Are all Good and Grate sub-frames I love them all and that all have a place for some body
I hope I made a nice little list of sub-frames from the aftermarket :)
Larry

mustang II are good suspension that have single sheer low and upper control arm mounted (so dose my Chevy pickup)
it is price....and you do get what you pay for Fatman, Heidt's,Detroit Speed (if I had the money, but I don't)
Scott's Hotrod, Total Cost Involved, Art Morrison, Chassis Works, Speed-Tech, Brewer's Restoration, Martz Chassis, 21st Century, Street Rod Garage, Checke Red Racing and Stock GM :)
Are all Good and Grate sub-frames I love them all and that all have a place for some body
I hope I made a nice little list of sub-frames from the aftermarket :)
Larry

I think the issue is that not all aftermarket subframes are created equal, and many are not as good (for handling) as a modified stock subframe. Although I'm not familiar with all you've named, my impressions are that the Total Cost Involved, Art Morrison, 21st Century and DSE are the clear leaders (and most expensive), the Speed-Tech, Brewer's Restoration and modified stock subframes are all (given similar mods) about the same (with - perhaps- a slight nod to the BRP subframe for the front steer rack), and the Street Rod Garage, Checker Red Racing, Scott's Hotrod, Chassis Works and Martz Chassis all more hot rod front clips. I could easily be wrong on those I've categorized as hot rod clips.

There's nothing wrong with any of them, so long as the subframe is capable of the intended use. My only quibble is the apparent idea that ANY aftermarket subframe is better than a modded stock subframe. That's simply wrong.

Mike you are right, no problem :)
I used a modded stock sub-frame my self and I like it
Larry

Ok so we have heard the Fatman bash but what is good mid priced setup to run. I am looking to build a daily driver 69 Camaro LS1 using the latest suspension without refinancing my worthless home?


I don't agree that anyone is trying to "bash" any manufacturer - just trying to give the feedback that will do the most good in making a selection based on your needs.

That said, here is a quick comparison of some of the systems from an (almost) strickly price standpoint - as you've asked.
For outstanding performance use characteristics you can't beat Art Morrisons or Detroit Engineering stuff.
A Morrison set-up will run @$6K depending on the options you chose in brake packages etc. - You will recieve a totally engineered and assembled unit that will markedly improve you car from the moment you bolt it on.
A Detroit Speed set-up will run you @6.5~7k for a full subframe, again depending on what options you order. You will receive one of the best engineered suspension systems available and excellent support to boot.
While either one of these will set you back slightly less than $8~10k by the time all the smoke clears (including all mounts and other hardware to the reinstall eng/trans & front clip aasm.), the above systems are two of the best you can spend your money on, if you want to go the 'no-holds-barred' route - not cheap, but you won't find the need to spend that money twice to get the best performance as you continually improve the rest of the vehicle sometime in the future.

I would group the Martz, Heidt's, TCE and Fatman (and other) offerings all in about the same catagory.
Nice looking stuff, based on various reiterations of common automotive suspensions systems of the past - a nice way to say very little new in their interpitations of the original design to improve geometries built-in to those systems.
Their pricing will reflex the complexity of most of the designs in that almost all of these systems can be had for between $3~4.5k - again, depending on the brake package and options you chose.
Please don't get me wrong - it's not that I'm saying anything negative about them, other than as you improve other areas of you project seeking more handling you will have to go revisit these systems and opt for further upgrades or replacement to bring this area into step with your future needs and goals. Or 're-spend that money' to do it again...
If you don't forsee you goals as having the 'bad-assest-pro-street/touring' handling vehicle - then by all meens look into one of these as meeting you immediate needs.

One last vendor to consider, specially if trying to control funds in this area, would be the Brewers Modified Subs.
Brewers takes GM subs (yours or a core) and reworks them with additional welding, reinforcement, revised suspension geometry (based on your needs), revised engine mount systems, revised trans mount systems and other improvements to effect great handling improvements at very reasonable cost.
They charge depending on modifications of course, but you can get some nice work done for @$2.4~2.5k - a bargain if you're making a funds driven decission to forgo going 'all-the-way' at this stage in your project.

I hope this helps answer the 'what do these cost' part of your post and that you'll excuse the "JMHO's" part of the text ;)

John

:)

Well now that I am on information overload what I am trying to do is build it to drive on a daily basis looking for ride hieght adjustability with qaulity parts using as much from the donor c-5 as possible without going backwards or making the wrong choice. I would rather spend a few more bucks now than much more later. But not looking to spend 7k to get there. I keep looking at all the info on here and wind up spinning in circles. The main goal is to go coil over all the way around front rack and pinion steering 4 wheel disc with LS1 6 speed ddrive train. Can this be had for around 4k with a qaulity product?
Thanks. John

Well now that I am on information overload what I am trying to do is build it to drive on a daily basis looking for ride hieght adjustability with qaulity parts using as much from the donor c-5 as possible without going backwards or making the wrong choice. I would rather spend a few more bucks now than much more later. But not looking to spend 7k to get there. I keep looking at all the info on here and wind up spinning in circles. The main goal is to go coil over all the way around front rack and pinion steering 4 wheel disc with LS1 6 speed ddrive train. Can this be had for around 4k with a qaulity product?
Thanks. John

In a word - no.

Are you looking for frequent adjustment of ride height, or simply to get the stance right? If stance, there are many lower cost approaches you can use. Good handling first generation Camaros can be built on a budget - but $4,000 for brakes, coilover front and rear suspension and a front rack just isn't going to happen.

I'm doing a budget coil spring front/leaf spring rear build for a '67 aiming for the best handling I can get from a stock subframe, and will have about $3,500 just in suspension pieces front and rear.

In a word - no.
...


Maybe that should be 'maybe' :D

If I understand what you posted correctly -
...using as much from the donor c-5 as possible...
Thanks. John
- and you're saying "donor C-5" as in that you aready have a donor vehicle suspension set-up, or the majority or parts from one, to install on a good clip - then yes ~ maybe...

I've used stuff from Art Morrison designed around the C-5 parts.
If you were to buy a bare 1st Gen. GT Sport subframe clip from them and a few other pieces as needed to complete the set-up the price would look something like this:
1.) GT Subframe clip - @ $3k
2.) Coil Over set-up - @ $500
3.) Rack assm. - @ $350
4.) misc. parts - @ $150
Total @ $4k :thumbsup:

This would give you the complete front clip assembly with the installation of your parts.
I would contact Morrison directly (1-800-929-7188 - www.artmorrison.com ) and discuss what you have and get a direct quote from them on the parts you need to complete your set-up.
They are good people and willing to work with you and they deal some on custom packages usually.

hope this helps;
John

Maybe that should be 'maybe' :D

If I understand what you posted correctly -

- and you're saying "donor C-5" as in that you aready have a donor vehicle suspension set-up, or the majority or parts from one, to install on a good clip - then yes ~ maybe...

I've used stuff from Art Morrison designed around the C-5 parts.
If you were to buy a bare 1st Gen. GT Sport subframe clip from them and a few other pieces as needed to complete the set-up the price would look something like this:
1.) GT Subframe clip - @ $3k
2.) Coil Over set-up - @ $500
3.) Rack assm. - @ $350
4.) misc. parts - @ $150
Total @ $4k :thumbsup:

This would give you the complete front clip assembly with the installation of your parts.
I would contact Morrison directly (1-800-929-7188 - www.artmorrison.com ) and discuss what you have and get a direct quote from them on the parts you need to complete your set-up.
They are good people and willing to work with you and they deal some on custom packages usually.

hope this helps;
John

you need c5 or 6 control arms,knuckles, then you need to buy morrisons drop steering arms which they only sell with the knuckles which is 1k, so either way to buy a quality subframe is going to be 5-6k without brakes.

One last vendor to consider, specially if trying to control funds in this area, would be the Brewers Modified Subs.
Brewers takes GM subs (yours or a core) and reworks them with additional welding, reinforcement, revised suspension geometry (based on your needs), revised engine mount systems, revised trans mount systems and other improvements to effect great handling improvements at very reasonable cost.
They charge depending on modifications of course, but you can get some nice work done for @$2.4~2.5k - a bargain if you're making a funds driven decission to forgo going 'all-the-way' at this stage in your project.

I hope this helps answer the 'what do these cost' part of your post and that you'll excuse the "JMHO's" part of the text ;)

John

Does anyone have a link to this company? Brewers Modified Subs

The phone number for Brewer's is 1-770-751-0687, they are in GA.
Their web site is - http://www.brphotrods.com/

You can work alot of things out with Morrison's - just call them...
Yopu might also want ot try 21st Century Street machines - http://www.21stcenturystreetmachines.com/products.php?item=subframes
They make a nice sub based off the C-5 suspension also, but I've never used one. Pricing is usually just a hair under Morrison's.

Some great info in this post!! I like it.....My goals are to use my stock sub, SC&C uppers with the optional hex arm parts. The tall ball joints, Touring Classics brakes for the front and rear (I say Touring classics because I am going to possibly piece together my fronts and rears myself). Delrin lower control arm bushings, QA1 coil over conversion shock set up and hotchkiss 1 1/8 hollow sway bar, solid subframe mounts. Will be on Vintage Wheel Works 45's. With wheels and tires I hope to get it done for 4.5K to 5K depending on parts costs and what I can find used. The rear will be Hotchkiss springs and delrin bushings, the plan is for bilstien shocks at all 4 corners.
I have the rear springs, QA1's, Hotchkiss bar and have spent just under $700.00 including shipping on the parts. I have bought stuff from forum members and e-bay.

I think going stock is the best budget way to go for bang for the buck. My 67 will not be a track car, I just want it to handle some mountain roads well, some off ramps good and go over some crappy roads safer than it did before. The big brakes are good thing because I drive a little quicker than most bust mostly for looks behind the 17 inch wheels. A smaller disc set up at both ends would work just fine but looks funny through the wheels.

Some great info in this post!! I like it.....My goals are to use my stock sub, SC&C uppers with the optional hex arm parts. The tall ball joints, Touring Classics brakes for the front and rear (I say Touring classics because I am going to possibly piece together my fronts and rears mayself). Delrin lower control arm bushings, QA1 coil over conversion shock set up and hotchkiss 1 1/8 hollow sway bar, solid subframe mounts. Will be on Vintage Wheel Works 45's. With wheels and tires I hope to get it done for 4.5K to 5K depending on parts costs and what I can find used. The rear will be Hotchkiss springs and delrin bushings, the plan is for bilstien shocks at all 4 corners.
I have the rear springs, QA1's, Hotchkiss bar and have spent just under $700.00 including shipping on the parts. I have bought stuff from forum members and e-bay.

I think going stock is the best budget way to go for bang for the buck. My 67 will not be a track car, I just want it to handle some mountain roads well, some off ramps good and go over some crappy roads safer than it did before. The big brakes are good thing because I drive a little quicker than most bust mostly for looks behind the 17 inch wheels. A smaller disc set up at both ends would work just fine but looks funny through the wheels.

Joe: Depending on what front tire size you're going to be running, you might consider the SC&C LCAs as well. I've got a '68 with the Guldstrand mod, stock UCA/LCA with delrin bushings all around, an aggressive alignment with 5 degrees or so of caster and 245-45-17 tires on the front end, and get some tire rub if I hit a bump in a fast curve when the front suspension is already compressed from the turn. Mark (at SC&C) pointed out - correctly as it turns out - that my front wheels are toward the back of the front wheel well because of the caster. The SC&C LCAs (and I assume other aftermarket LCAs as well) move the lower ball joint forward in the wheel well to allow for the greater caster settings.

The phone number for Brewer's is 1-770-751-0687, they are in GA.
Their web site is - http://www.brphotrods.com/

You can work alot of things out with Morrison's - just call them...
Yopu might also want ot try 21st Century Street machines - http://www.21stcenturystreetmachines.com/products.php?item=subframes
They make a nice sub based off the C-5 suspension also, but I've never used one. Pricing is usually just a hair under Morrison's.

Thanks for the link and info

Joe

Joe: Depending on what front tire size you're going to be running, you might consider the SC&C LCAs as well. I've got a '68 with the Guldstrand mod, stock UCA/LCA with delrin bushings all around, an aggressive alignment with 5 degrees or so of caster and 245-45-17 tires on the front end, and get some tire rub if I hit a bump in a fast curve when the front suspension is already compressed from the turn. Mark (at SC&C) pointed out - correctly as it turns out - that my front wheels are toward the back of the front wheel well because of the caster. The SC&C LCAs (and I assume other aftermarket LCAs as well) move the lower ball joint forward in the wheel well to allow for the greater caster settings.

I will have to look into those. I would like aftermarket upper and lower and I have to got admit the SC&C uppers just look flat trick, all there is to it for those, they look awsome!! 245-45-17 is what I am looking to run with a 275-40 or 45 17 in the rear. Drizer Inc seems to have a good price on wheels and the correct tire sizes at about $1,600 plus shipping for V45's.

I saw someplace where Tyler (ATS) was talking about the Fatman arms in a post and the problems with using them, somthing about a single mount point or something VS the enlcosed mount point that all others use including the stock subframe and lowers. I think that post is someplace on the PT board. It was good reading but also had some pissing contests also, I think a Fat man rep posted to it a few times.

245-45-17 is what I am looking to run with a 275-40 or 45 17 in the rear. Drizer Inc seems to have a good price on wheels and the correct tire sizes at about $1,600 plus shipping for V45's.

I don't know what your budget is, but I've found that C5 wheels with spacers work really well for not too much money. You can pick up a set of 4 C5 wheels for $400 or so, the wheel adapters run $350 or so for a set, but you can easily (and inexpensively) have extra sets of wheels and tires. I've got a set of C5 rims with Nitto 555's I use locally, and another set of wheels with Michelen Pilot Sport A/S run flats for longer (2,000 mile plus) trips. The run flats free me from having to carry a spare, jack, etc., while still being able to get to a garage if something happens to a tire. The Nitto 555's are just a nice summer performance tire. Also, if you bend a rim (it does happen) you can replace it for $100 to $150, rather than the cost of a new aftermarket wheel.

I try to be ruthless about spending my money first for performance and then a distant second for appearance. Obviously, others have different priorities.

By the way, the only downside to the wheels and adapters is that chain tire stores won't work on a car with adapters. For most of us, that's not an issue.

The phone number for Brewer's is 1-770-751-0687, they are in GA.
Their web site is - http://www.brphotrods.com/

You can work alot of things out with Morrison's - just call them...
Yopu might also want ot try 21st Century Street machines - http://www.21stcenturystreetmachines.com/products.php?item=subframes
They make a nice sub based off the C-5 suspension also, but I've never used one. Pricing is usually just a hair under Morrison's.

I don't think Brewer's (BRP Hotrods) is selling modified subs any longer. They have discontinued their front steer rack setup and now sell LSx conversion mounts that use the LH8 pan which works with the stock F body rear steer setup. The turning radius of their front steer rack was very large and it had other issues relating to LSx conversions. When he introduced it nothing else was available and it was pioneering but there are better solutions out there now.

Don

Sorry to hear Brewer's isn't doint this work anymore :sad:
I've seen some nice work of theirs.
I had hear he reconfiqured the set-up to use a rear-steer now, but I didn't know he had abandoned the older set-up.

Sorry to hear Brewer's isn't doint this work anymore :sad:
I've seen some nice work of theirs.
I had hear he reconfiqured the set-up to use a rear-steer now, but I didn't know he had abandoned the older set-up.

Here's a couple of photos of their old front steer setup. The sway bar mounted upside down and to the rear which made it a bit of a debris catcher. Nice thing was you could use the stock F body LSx accessories including the AC compressor. It was the first kit available but there are much better options now.

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp31/dhutton_pics/brp5.jpg

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp31/dhutton_pics/brp4.jpg

My uncle has a fatman setup on his 65 Nova, and my ONLY complaint about it is the turning radius. You need a big place to turn the car around. The turning radius was much better with the stock setup. However, the handling is awesome. :hurray:

My guess is the editor is using it because it was given to him in exchange for the article.

Fatman is a very well know and respected vendor in the street rod community and they deserve to be. While I'm sure they will be right there with support should you need it there are so many choises for 1st gen suspension I would be looking at one of the companies that makes their living in the pro-touring world not the street rod world. I'm sure there is a reason why Evan Smith choose to go with Fatman. I'm also sure he knows there are many other options out there. The magazine probably wants to evaluate this set up against that of some of their other advertizers. I think this will be a very straight foward install with no drama. Let us know how it goes.

My guess is the editor is using it because it was given to him in exchange for the article.

:) You're much more direct than me. :)

Maybe that should be 'maybe' :D

If I understand what you posted correctly -

- and you're saying "donor C-5" as in that you aready have a donor vehicle suspension set-up, or the majority or parts from one, to install on a good clip - then yes ~ maybe...

I've used stuff from Art Morrison designed around the C-5 parts.
If you were to buy a bare 1st Gen. GT Sport subframe clip from them and a few other pieces as needed to complete the set-up the price would look something like this:
1.) GT Subframe clip - @ $3k
2.) Coil Over set-up - @ $500
3.) Rack assm. - @ $350
4.) misc. parts - @ $150
Total @ $4k :thumbsup:

This would give you the complete front clip assembly with the installation of your parts.
I would contact Morrison directly (1-800-929-7188 - www.artmorrison.com (http://www.artmorrison.com) ) and discuss what you have and get a direct quote from them on the parts you need to complete your set-up.
They are good people and willing to work with you and they deal some on custom packages usually.

hope this helps;
John
I think he ws talking all four corners....