What do you guys think this cross member is worth?
Description:
4 Speed first generation cross member. What you see is what you get. Do your own homework to assure proper fitment. This could fit many years and first generation cars like Nova, Camaro, Firebird. Can use a tack on one side, but when bolted in place it should work fine. This is an ORIGINAL GM part. You decide if it will work for your application
http://www.camaros.net/classifieds/data/8/large/69_Parts_009.jpg

It eludes to a problem, "needs a tack", but shows no detail of the problem. Needs more pictures, or walk away from. These are not impossible to find, and worth looking for one with no problems.

Would you buy it for your Camaro if you needed it?

The seller regularly post ads on TC.Contact him and ask for a pic of what needs tack welding.If he will not send further info walk away.

The seller regularly post ads on TC.Contact him and ask for a pic of what needs tack welding.If he will not send further info walk away.
Does being a regular seller on TC add any credibility to the part?

The squared off access hole with the beveled corner indicates that is a 1st gen manual trans BB cross member...

Does being a regular seller on TC add any credibility to the part?

Don't know about credibility to the part but he has been a Team member sense 05.If he was selling junk and ripping people off he would have been gone along time ago.JMO

If I wanted to convert my 68 396 TH400 car to a Muncie do you think this is the right cross member?

If I wanted to convert my 68 396 TH400 car to a Muncie do you think this is the right cross member?

Yes.

The squared off access hole with the beveled corner indicates that is a 1st gen manual trans BB cross member...

Firebird looks the same and is different.Will not work.Check spacing from a side to the trans mount bolt. Jeff

Firebird looks the same and is different.Will not work.Check spacing from a side to the trans mount bolt. Jeff
It is, in fact, a Firebird cross member and will not work on a BB Camaro.
The seller knows this.
It is advertised for sale on a Camaro site.

Now is it deceptive?

Sorry to be vague, I was trying to get an unbiased opinion.

Is it deceptive to carefully word an ad? No. However, when I come across ads worded like this, I tend to be much more cautious. The way I read the ad is that the part is in much worse shape than the photo appears. The fact that the ad states "what you see is what you get" makes me wonder what the rest of the part looks like and why didn't the seller capture the whole part in the photo in the first place. Like Mike wrote...get more pics or walk away. Otherwise, you're rolling the dice on whether you get a decent part or a POS.

In this thread their are two pics by Wagonman showing the Camaro crossmember I dont see the difference. http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=148577&highlight=difference+camaro+firebird+crossmember James can you show me the difference?

Don't know if this will help you but here are some shots of one of my BB crossmembers. You can compare the center holes.

If you are looking into the one he has for sale I would want to see a good shot of the whole piece as well as a good top shot. I rotated his picture and increased the contrast to make it easier to see. The major difference is that the BB has the trans mount holes shifted off to the side. The Firebird holes are more to the center when looking through the bottom. It is readily visible when viewed from the top.

http://www.swimmingriverglass.com/4st400top.jpg
http://www.swimmingriverglass.com/4st400bot.jpg
http://www.swimmingriverglass.com/4stopdet.jpg
http://www.swimmingriverglass.com/4sbotdet.jpg
http://www.chevroletcamaros.com/images/69_Parts_009.jpg

Thanks for the photos Mike.The cut off corner is different also.Learn something new here everyday.

Is it deceptive to carefully word an ad? No. However, when I come across ads worded like this, I tend to be much more cautious. The way I read the ad is that the part is in much worse shape than the photo appears. The fact that the ad states "what you see is what you get" makes me wonder what the rest of the part looks like and why didn't the seller capture the whole part in the photo in the first place. Like Mike wrote...get more pics or walk away. Otherwise, you're rolling the dice on whether you get a decent part or a POS.
Your missing the point.
Its a fitment issue, not a condition issue.
What you get is a Firebird part that will not work on a BB Camaro

Thanks for the photos Mike.The cut off corner is different also.Learn something new here everyday.
The cut off corner is the same, it's just a bad picture.
The difference is only the location of the slotted holes.

http://www.camaros.net/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=32378&cat=8

I purchased a similar cross member from the same seller here on Team Camaro.
I saw the ad and assumed it was correct for BB Camaro 4 speed, as some of you did.
I was gathering parts for an automatic to 4 speed conversion on my BB car.
8 months later when I started working on the conversion, I found the the cross member didn't fit. The seller denied me a refund.
When he sold it to me, he knew it was a Firebird cross member and he knew I wanted it for a BB Camaro.
It is a little hard to find, but TC does have a feed back forum in it's classifieds.
When I gave the seller negative feedback, he retaliated with this negative feedback:

"SOLD HIM A CROSSMEMBER that he said was a BB Camaro, not me. Asked for a refund 8 months later. I would have gladly refunded $$ in a timely manner. If you read the ad, it said "4 speed X member" do your own homework to assure proper fitment. I dont educate people. He said, after send numerious pictures, Yeah, thats a BB, so i sold it to him at a third of the price. Talking about being greatful."

For the record, I paid $170 shipped for the part, so much for selling it to me at a third the price, and I am supposed to be grateful he sold me a firebird part when he knew I wanted a BB Camaro part?

I never realized that the tranny mount slots on the b/b Camaro one are not perpendicular to the crossmember, unless that an optical delusion also. Makes sense, as the transmission is not parallel to the crossmember, either.

And on the subject of deception.....I don't know what the guy knows or doesn't know, but anytime someone says "do your homework," what he means is "buyer beware." JMO, but if a guy says that, he either knows something he does not want to reveal, or he is truly ignorant.

Some questions for James.

Is the picture you are showing of the one you got or the one he's selling now?
How many pictures did he send you and did you tell the seller it was a BB Camaro part?
How much of the $170 was shipping?
What was the asking price and what did you pay?

Is the picture you are showing of the one you got or the one he's selling now?
The one he is selling now.

How many pictures did he send you and did you tell the seller it was a BB Camaro part?
I don't believe I even asked for more pictures, I just bought it based on the pictures in the add that clearly showed the square hole with notched corner. I knew thats what the correct BB crossmember looked like, I didn't realize there was a Firebird version. My ignorance, I know now. I didn't tell the seller it was a BB part, I told him I wanted it to change the transmission on my BB car from auto to 4 speed.
I found out later that he for sure knew it was Firebird because another TC member from NJ looked at it and didn't buy it because he realized it was firebird.

How much of the $170 was shipping?
What was the asking price and what did you pay?
It was a shipped price of $170, I believe the shipping was about $20
I don't remember the asking price, but $150 sounds about right. It sure wasn't $450 negotiated to a "third of the price"

I left a warning on the bottom of that ad to ask anyone interested in this item to verify what it fits before purchase.

Yes, he has it worded safely but it just doesn't "feel" right after what happened to you.
I am involved in disputes every day now and see another one coming with the way it's stated.

Al - classifieds admin