View Full Version : double pumpers


Scott MH
Jan 24th, 09, 06:05 AM
I have to write an essay in my Automotive Technology class and I chose double pumpers. Now I know i have lost 90% of you already but if the few 10% of you could read over my essay and check it for content and accuracy that would be great. The grammer will be incorrect and the spelling may be off too. But, thats not what i am checking for just yet. Content and accuracy is what i want. Its kinda long, a little over 700 words.

Here it is...

You hear the phrase “double pumper” a lot among classic car guys. Mostly you hear it when someone says that you need one. But, what exactly is a double pumper carburetor? Hopefully, I will be able to shed some light on this for anyone that doesn’t know. A “double pumper” carburetor is a Holley design carburetor that uses two power valves instead of one; hence the term double pumper. The double pumper also uses mechanical secondary’s instead of the typical vacuum operated ones. Most carburetors only use one power valve for that extra shot of fuel needed when you slam your pedal to the floor.
So, what is a power valve and what does it do? A power valve is like a reserve. When you stomp on the gas pedal the power valve diaphragm is depressed by way of linkages on the side of the carb. This then creates a hydraulic force that pushes extra fuel into the engine.
Why is the extra fuel needed? When you floor a carbureted engine you are opening the butterfly flaps which allows more air to pass through the carburetor and into the combustion chamber. As this happens the vacuum that the engine creates drastically drops. If the carburetor only provided a set amount of fuel the engine would become lean and your car would simply fall on its face and stall. To counteract this lean condition the power valve shots and extra dose of fuel to compensate for the extra air. The goal is to keep the air/fuel mixture and a consistent rate no matter how you drive.
Now that we have the basics down let’s talk about double pumpers. Essentially the only difference is that the double pumper has two power valves instead of one and the use of linkage to open the secondaries. With the second valve in place more fuel would be injected into the intake manifold to mix with the air. In conjunction with the power valve is the secondaries, when the secondaries open they are allowing even more air into the engine by the way of mechanical linkages. You are forcing more fuel and air into the intake manifold. Whereas, a standard carburetor would only use the secondaries as they are needed because their operation is linked the engine vacuum. In a vacuum secondary carburetor the secondaries are held shut by the vacuum produced by the engine, as the RPMs rise the vacuum decreases which in turns allows the secondaries to open allowing more air and fuel to enter the intake manifold.
So, a double pumper would help my car perform better? Well, that is not necessarily true. Double pumpers were designed for high performance applications. If you look at Holleys website they have a few priorities for double pumper carburetors. They state that cars with automatic transmissions must be less than 3100lbs, have a 4000RPM stall converter, and at least a 3.73 rear gear. If you are using a manual gearbox then the 1st gear should be low such as a 3.08 and at least a 3.73 rear gears. If your 1st gear is high such a 2.20 then you should have at least a 4.56 rear gear. If you go by this then 90% of the cars with double pumper carburetors are not and cannot take advantage of the double pumper features. In fact when you use a double pumper carburetor on a car that is not setup for one you are actually causing a rich condition under hard acceleration which could foul plugs or even flood the engine. Have you ever been in a car floored it from a dead stop and have it sputter, cough, hiccup and then run like a bat out of hell? Bet there is a double pumper carburetor under the hood.
Ok, well what cars do benefit from double pumpers? Double pumper carburetors were designed for high performance cars. As I stated Holley has very specific guidelines. Engines that need a double pumper are high performance street engines and all out drag engines. Engines that have a “hot” cam could require them because of their lack of vacuum.
The double pumper is an extremely useful tool in the performance world, but as with any other tool it only works if you have the ability to harness its abilities. Not everyone needs a double pumper; most cars will run fine with a standard carburetor. But, they are always out there for that day you want to go to the next level with your car.

onovakind67
Jan 24th, 09, 06:06 AM
To start with, I would substitute the words 'accelerator pumps' in place of the words 'power valves'.

I would next study the following treatise by Holley very carefully:

http://www.holley.com/data/TechService/Technical/Carburetor%20Tech%20Info.pdf

DjD
Jan 24th, 09, 06:42 AM
As stated you have power valves mixed up with accelerator pumps, you also need to read up on how vacuum secondaries work. There is a spring and diaphragm that control the secondary opening. Vacuum is created in a venturi from the spring and diaphragm to the primary side of the carb. The more air pulled through the primary side of the carb the more venturi vacuum is created pulling against the diaphragm and spring and opening the secondary.

Lonnie P
Jan 24th, 09, 08:33 AM
One thing to consider revising is your mention of double pumpers dumping too much fuel..... this is quite opposite.

Using a DP carb on the wrong pplication or a carb that is too large will make a car fall on its face, but due to going lean, not rich. The problem is that when an engine goes to immediate full throttle, the velocity through a carb suddenly drops when all 4 barrels open. The velocity through a carb is what pulls the fuel from the venturis.... too low of velocity means not enough fuel. The car sputters because it is lean, this is why the carb comes with dual accelerator pumps, which were added to compensate for the lack of fuel when the throttle is suddenly opened at low speed. The accelerator pump covers the lean transition until the velocity increases & the venturi pulls enough fuel on its own. Conversely, if you go to full throttle at 4000rpm, you may barely even need the additional shot of fuel.

Also the reference to Holleys usage recommendations is rather generic. Holley has a better chart somewhere on their site that shows the mimimum rpm that you can use full throttle vs. engine size. This is a more accurate way to determine carb size & application. The truth is you can run a double pumper on almost any engine if it is sized properly. You just cannot go to full throttle at an engine speed that is below the airflow range that the carb will flow fuel for the reasons mentioned above.

FYI, my 5200lb 4x4 truck runs a DP carb & will smoke the tires through first & halfway into second flooring it from an idle. A 750DP picked up .25 sec over the previous best I could achieve with a 750vac secondary carb in an application your description says not to use.

Creeper
Jan 24th, 09, 08:43 AM
to start with, i would substitute the words 'accelerator pumps' in place of the words 'power valves'.

I would next study the following treatise by holley very carefully:

http://www.holley.com/data/techservice/technical/carburetor%20tech%20info.pdf


x2

ssdoug
Jan 24th, 09, 11:04 AM
you dont want to keep AFR. constant @rich before torque peak @lean after torque peak.