I went to the Barrett Jackson Auction last year to bid on this car
http://www.remarkablecars.com/for-sale/showproduct.php/product/11258
I just love the color and the look of that thing. When I got there, I saw some things that didnt look right to me (body panels offline, etc) and I passed on it....it went for 58k. I decided to have the same look car done with the features I really wanted. I landed a pretty sweet deal for myself I feel to start the process....1969 camaro SS convertible with the following (cut and pasted from the ad) Power steering, Power front disc brakes, Equipped with a 95 LT1 motor and trans, complete rebuilt with LT4 camshaft, 1.6 roller rocker from GM performance with aluminum valve cover, new distributor and wires from GM. Has underdrive pulley. Jet cold header, custom wire harness, all new brake lines, custom exhaust from Flowmaster, new gas tank, new radiator support, all new front end, bushings and balljoints, car also has subframe connector, 373 posi(rebuilt with all new hardware) new leaf spring, custom program computer, Full floor pan has been replaced on both sides. Custom dashboard with auto meter phantom. Car has some rust in the trunk that needs to be replaced.
I got the car yesterday and I feel I got a pretty good steal for myself at a price less than 20k to turn this into what i want...car is in darn good shape (solid) and is as described and I have the trunk replacement coming. Paint is over a decade old and exterior needs TLC but after looking bidding and checking out probably 100 camaro convert's this last year trying to find the right one to start with I feel darn lucky.

Like I said Im a newbie to the pro touring game, doing the best I can here....I went and toured a highly acclaimed restoration/customization shop here in Socal and sat down with the project manager. I told him I wanted these features (nothing crazy in my mind)

1)media blasted and painted like the car above in that link
2)tight steering ratio and the Detroit suspension
3)engine ill keep
4)open to other suggestions that they think it should have
5)interior...nothing too crazy but not a fan of stock camaro seats, so i would like aftermarket leather seats and maybe some other upgrades interior wise, vintage air, electric windows....black interior and again open to discussion on other features.

This guy has never even seen my starting car yet.....he quotes me a price of 130 thousand to 150 thousand dollars to do this project. 95 bucks an hour and its going to take 1000 man hours and probably 50 thousand in parts. I told him I would get back to him....

I feel that Im getting raked here....but hey maybe I am an idiot and wrong. This isnt my area of expertise at all.....Im not asking for any special fabrication except maybe tub/wheelwise to fit those same rims on there that the car in the link is running. Any and all opinions would be welcome here....I am in the San Diego area (north county) if their are any recommendations for me....thanks in advance for any comments as I dont have any close confidantes or advisors locally for this project.

Good answer " I'll get back to you". What you described you want done is not in that price range IMHO. The most expensive thing you want done is the Painting, stripping and floor install. What the heck is gonna cost 50K in parts? They gold plated?

Dont get discouraged, shop around if your not up to do most of the work your self. I seen prices for soda blast go for about 1000 to 1500 or less. Then you have to see what was under all the paint. Hopefullly no filler/bondo.

Shop around.

When you say "DSE suspension", what exactly do you mean?

Are you talking full on sub frame, sub-connectors, Quadra link, mini tub etc...?

If so, you are looking at a fair amount of $$ for sure. Also, what shop did you talk to? wondering if it is one I'm thinking of. If you are not on pro-touring.com or lateral-g.net yet, you should check those sites out as you can get alot of help there too.

OK, well first welcome to the forum.

We build a lot of cars and sell a lot of parts. So let me help a bit. Lets call your reference car "the yellow car".

Now the yellow car you are referencing DOES NOT have any tub work to fit those tires. We can do what they did easy just providing the proper wheels / tires / offsets, no problem. Now you can mini tub and put a hell of a lot more width in there then the yellow car has.

That yellow car says nothing of trick suspension and only has a set of drop springs. The yellow car does have rebuilt drum brakes according to the add!

The yellow car is nothing but a stock Camaro with a set of spring and wheels / tires! Not exactly what one would call Pro Touring.

Now, obviously the shop you talked to is bidding on a much more Pro Touring package then the yellow car, and yes it will cost a bit more then the yellow car sold for (which was to much for a stock convertible with wheels).

You need a little Project Planning and a budget. Your not getting quoted apples to apples. If all you want is a stock Camaro with wheels and tires, we could send you that stuff, any mechanic shop could install thenm, find a paint shop and your finished.

If you want more then that, if the yellow car fell to short in components, you need a project Plan.

You are welcome to call us, Project Planing and advice is free for forum members, we do Project Planning for shops and members all over the world. You can then take a plan and go shopping for a shop or shops to do the work with a good idea of what things should cost in hours.

We just finished a car and sent it back to California and have 2 more California projects in the shop today.

My contact information is in my signiture.

I see 50k to 100k in a pro touring car. I am doing one right now for a friend and he will have closer to 100k in his car.

He already owns the car.
502 ramjet motor
Turbo 400 w/gearvendors overdrive
12 bolt narrowed 2" each side
DSE minitub, quadralink suspension, subframe connectors, steel dash insert, radiator support panel
Budnik 430 18" rims and tires, 430 steering wheel
Vintage Air A/C
Baer 13" brakes on front and 12" on back
Heidts tubular A-Arms
Quick Ratio Steering box
Nice Paint cost close to 15k
Misc boby panels replaced w/ nos quarters
Fiberglass hood
Marquez tail lights and blinkers
Foose billet RS grill
Leather Interior w/ 2002 camaro or firebird seats. Dont know which back seat yet.
March serpentine pulley set
All new glass
Electric windows
Factory front subframe
And my labor cost

You can do it cheaper if you do alot yourself. I probably forgot some thinks he has for the car.

Get with Frank and get a plan together. Then start calling and getting prices on parts and labor. Get ready to spend some money. It aint cheap anymore.

Where are you in socal? I am in the San Fernando Valley. Send me a contact number and let me see what you have, maybe I can help. That price, when all done by others can be somewhat realistic

I don't think that number - right out of the shoot - is unreasonable if you are planning on a turn key build with a shop charging $95 an hour. Especially if you're critical of the fit, finish, and final product that you commented on with the yellow car. As Frank very accurately pointed out (and I am paraphrasing here), that car is not much more than a decent restoration with shiny wheels and drop springs.

$50k in parts (purchasing everything new, at retail, through a shop) is easy to do, especially when you are starting with over $10K for suspension right off the bat (as you described). You also have to keep in mind my personal favorite - the snowball effect - costs that occur as a result of the basics that you are looking for. Quadralink without minitubs? You could do it, but why? Brakes... Interior... etc. will all have additional costs if you are going to do it right.

If you talk to a professional - like Frank - up front he can very accurately help you to see where those costs will occur and what your options or alternatives are. It's well worth your time and the cost of a phone call to Prodigy - if for nothing else but a second opinion. I am sure that one thing that Frank will tell you is that having a plan at the begining is imperative to controlling your budget (and conversly the most expensive thing you can do with a serious pro touring build is change your mind in three months).

A convertible will also have some additional expenses in the build that may not be encountered in a coupe build.

Your budget will ultimately be dictated by your hands on contribution (in the build and buying/sourcing parts) and your expectations for the finished product.

Labor rates are much cheaper as you head east and on a big project it is worth the shipping cost. Call Frank at Prodigy and discuss options with him.....

When you say "DSE suspension", what exactly do you mean?

Are you talking full on sub frame, sub-connectors, Quadra link, mini tub etc...?

If so, you are looking at a fair amount of $$ for sure. Also, what shop did you talk to? wondering if it is one I'm thinking of. If you are not on pro-touring.com or lateral-g.net yet, you should check those sites out as you can get alot of help there too.

Honestly i was open to suggestions on the steering and suspension upgrades....I really am not looking for a trailer queen....I want to drive this and just would like something that has modern steering and modern suspension (I had a 67 rs ss convert stock and it was like driving a forklift with about 6 inches of play in the steering wheel)

The shop...it was HR+C in Escondido. I am a member a protouring.com, I just lurk and dont post though because I'm not at your guys level in the least on knowledge.

OK, well first welcome to the forum.

We build a lot of cars and sell a lot of parts. So let me help a bit. Lets call your reference car "the yellow car".

Now the yellow car you are referencing DOES NOT have any tub work to fit those tires. We can do what they did easy just providing the proper wheels / tires / offsets, no problem. Now you can mini tub and put a hell of a lot more width in there then the yellow car has.

That yellow car says nothing of trick suspension and only has a set of drop springs. The yellow car does have rebuilt drum brakes according to the add!

The yellow car is nothing but a stock Camaro with a set of spring and wheels / tires! Not exactly what one would call Pro Touring.

Now, obviously the shop you talked to is bidding on a much more Pro Touring package then the yellow car, and yes it will cost a bit more then the yellow car sold for (which was to much for a stock convertible with wheels).

You need a little Project Planning and a budget. Your not getting quoted apples to apples. If all you want is a stock Camaro with wheels and tires, we could send you that stuff, any mechanic shop could install thenm, find a paint shop and your finished.

If you want more then that, if the yellow car fell to short in components, you need a project Plan.

You are welcome to call us, Project Planing and advice is free for forum members, we do Project Planning for shops and members all over the world. You can then take a plan and go shopping for a shop or shops to do the work with a good idea of what things should cost in hours.

We just finished a car and sent it back to California and have 2 more California projects in the shop today.

My contact information is in my signiture.

Very aware of you Frank, your reputation is unsurpassed, especially when I was originally looking into RetroRides in Utah and I saw you saved a couple guys. I will be contacting you, (kind of feel stupid because i just had the car shipped to me here in cali from Florida about 90 miles from where you are....and I probably should of looked into all this first)....

I don't think that number - right out of the shoot - is unreasonable if you are planning on a turn key build with a shop charging $95 an hour. Especially if you're critical of the fit, finish, and final product that you commented on with the yellow car. As Frank very accurately pointed out (and I am paraphrasing here), that car is not much more than a decent restoration with shiny wheels and drop springs.

Your budget will ultimately be dictated by your hands on contribution (in the build and buying/sourcing parts) and your expectations for the finished product.

Agree and just to clear something....I am really not that meticulous, its just that when i went and looked at that Barrett Jackson car, looking down the left side of the car from the back looked great, looking down the right side from the back and it (and this is a hack's opinion) looked very off, didnt line up and almost looked like it had been hit prior and repaired, it looked so off linewise to me compared to the left side.
I am not looking to race this thing or anything, just a driver for me that is pretty cool to look at, with some steering, minor suspension, interior seating/color upgrades and that exterior scheme on the outside.

I am very good at sourcing parts out and i hope to be involved in that process and relayed that to the shop yesterday.

Sounds like you got a similar car for less than $20K. It even has the modern drive train already. You should be able to duplicate the one in the ad for less than $58K.

BTW- you have good taste in colors.

look up the hunsaker synkro seats. I havent got aroudn to buying them yet, but someone on this forum swapped them in and they look Sharp! They are a memory foam suspension seat also so they gotta be comforable....good price too

http://www.hunsakersports.com/images/products/synkro-cloth2.jpg
http://www.hunsakersports.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=194

much appreciated Darko, those are sharp as heck...that is a great price too.

[quote=James67RS;1148901]I don't think that number - right out of the shoot - is unreasonable if you are planning on a turn key build with a shop charging $95 an hour. Especially if you're critical of the fit, finish, and final product that you commented on with the yellow car. As Frank very accurately pointed out (and I am paraphrasing here), that car is not much more than a decent restoration with shiny wheels and drop springs.

$50k in parts (purchasing everything new, at retail, through a shop) is easy to do, especially when you are starting with over $10K for suspension right off the bat (as you described). You also have to keep in mind my personal favorite - the snowball effect - costs that occur as a result of the basics that you are looking for. Quadralink without minitubs? You could do it, but why? Brakes... Interior... etc. will all have additional costs if you are going to do it right.

If you talk to a professional - like Frank - up front he can very accurately help you to see where those costs will occur and what your options or alternatives are. It's well worth your time and the cost of a phone call to Prodigy - if for nothing else but a second opinion. I am sure that one thing that Frank will tell you is that having a plan at the begining is imperative to controlling your budget (and conversly the most expensive thing you can do with a serious pro touring build is change your mind in three months).

A convertible will also have some additional expenses in the build that may not be encountered in a coupe build.

Yea what he said....
if you want the car media blasted. then all bets are off, as you will not REALLY know what you have till it comes back, and at that point you have already invested 40-60 hours in disassembly if all the parts are bagged and a list made of EVERYTHING that will need replacing. it will not be hard to have 50k in parts! moldings carpet. clips floor pans quarters DSE suspension rebuild a SBC these days what 2500.00 rebuilt trans 1000.0 rebuilt rear new gears 1200.00??? brakes 1500-4000 ??? you decide, and then your going to be changing your mind 1/2 way through and want a 383 and a tko600???? 10 to 15 K and it WILL be the nickel and dime stuff that kills you brake hoses rad hoses clamps bolts.

don't be discouraged just plan for it. honestly take what you think it will cost and double it and when there is money left over your wife will think your a hero for saving the cash if not your screwed..... or not.
call Frank!

here is what I did. I tried to get as best of a bang for the buck as I could.

I called marcus at SC&C and talked to him forever. The guy knows his stuff
http://scandc.com/index.htm

From him I ended up getting the stage 1 plus kit which is the spc upper control arms and the extended upper ball joint which gives you better suspension geometry. Then Ricks had a 15% off sale and I ordered everything else I could from them (the 15% didnt mean anything since they charged me over $200 in shipping fees)
DSE delril lower control arm bushings
DSE 2" drop coils
DSE 2" drop multi leafs
hotchkis 1 1/8 hollow sway bar
DSE solid subframe bushings
Competition engineering subframe connectors

with the steering box I ordered a fast ratio 3rd gen box for the heavy feel steering but they sent me a 14.1 box so i'm sending it back and I'm just going to hit the boneyard to find one so I know exactly what it is. On the stock boxes there is a code painted on so you know exactly what box you need to get and I think its XH...so that way you're not playing a guessing game with which box you install.

I also did a lot of other things like a budget 9" which was a 67 mustang housing with 31 spline axles, 3.7gears and an open carrier with a lock right

you might want to give Bruning Auto Design a call also.
http://www.bruningautodesign.com/

They build pro-touring cars. The good thing is the Shop rate is almost half!! and the car stays on the West coast. The savings in labor can be spent on other parts or some cool stuff.

I really appreciate the help guys.....greatly!

thank you.

So What did you decide?

Probably not what you want to hear, but there are a lot of great cars for sale right now. I am deep into a 69 build with Art Morrison sub, LS3, Fab-9 rear, Fikse wheels, etc. I wish I would have bought a completed car like this one. I would be driving now and money ahead.

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=18508


Or for a bit more but still less than your quote

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=18093

These are top notch cars and would be hard to build for the asking price if you had to pay for labor.

I wish I would have bought a completed car .......

Boy can I relate to that statement. I'm paying my builder $35/hr cash under the table. He's building my car in his spare time(evenings/weekends). Project has taken 4 years this month and counting. I wish I would've just bought a completed car. I would have been driving the car 4 years ago, and, saved a lot of $$$$$.

Boy can I relate to that statement. I'm paying my builder $35/hr cash under the table. He's building my car in his spare time(evenings/weekends). Project has taken 4 years this month and counting. I wish I would've just bought a completed car. I would have been driving the car 4 years ago, and, saved a lot of $$$$$.At least you will know what you have when he is done.But I guess if you bought a Lateral G you would have known to.

I live in Mass. There's a good shop down in Uxbridge that was doing work on a 34 Ford from Cal. The guy that owns the car had $40K in body/paint. He shipped the car here, from Cal, because the prices were literally 1/2 of what he could get in Cal, and there was a 1-2yr wait out in Cal. He has two more cars lined up, so the guy in Uxbridge was going to deliver the one that's finished, and pick up the next one.

That gives you an idea of the variables.

And unless there was a "frame-off" done on the car, docuemented with pics, you really won't know what you've got for a base car until it's blasted...and of course, to blast it, it has to be disassembled.
I started off looking/saving for a $5K paint job. I took most of the car apart before it went to the shop. I pulled motor/tranny, front clip, seats. Everyone thought my car was pretty solid. Paint guy said it really needed to be blasted, as it had the potential to be "...a really nice car." since all indications were that it was a true RS/SS.
Came back from being blasted?...the rest is history. Full frame off...budget went from $5K to who the hell KNOWS $$$$ LOL
So now I'm just starting the process of putting it all back together. I'm afraid to even think about what all the little upgrades/changes along the way are adding up to.

I guess my point is that unless you have frame-off pics...you can't really get an idea of what your budget is going to look like until you strip the car down, IMHO.

Jim (broke) :)

Probably not what you want to hear, but there are a lot of great cars for sale right now. I am deep into a 69 build with Art Morrison sub, LS3, Fab-9 rear, Fikse wheels, etc. I wish I would have bought a completed car like this one. I would be driving now and money ahead.

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=18508


Or for a bit more but still less than your quote

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=18093

These are top notch cars and would be hard to build for the asking price if you had to pay for labor.


That first link (pace car) is absolutely incredible.

The Jeff Trush pacer is a fantastic car, and a complete steal.
If I had the coin, it would be in my garage.

Thanks for the mention on the pace car. I bought the car from Jeff, and improved it. Tight markets out there right now for even good deals like the pacer and Camaro X.

ETA: My first post here and I have been a lurker for almost 4 years. Boy, I am going to miss the header to introduce myself at the top of the forum. LOL

I can relate to most of this. The farther I took the car down the more work it needed to have done to it to be "right". At this point the only thing lacking for it to be a "frame off" is putting the body on a rotissere. It currently looks like it hit a landmine as the lower quarters, lower part of the inner wheel house panels, trunk pan and rear tail had to come off and/or be repaired.

The rest of the car is apart to get at the nooks and crannies for paint. Fortunately the rest of the car requires only "minor" work.....

And I thought all it needed was a "paint job."

newbie I think your right that price seems way out of line to me. I've built my share of first gens. and some with all the good stuff. and in know way does that price seem right. now I live on the east cost and things my be different. but my personal thoughts would be shop around because something does't sound right all in all welcome to the site and good luck.

It sounds to me like your on your way to getting things rolling. As stated before, Knowing what you want is key. I like using the, " If Then " apprach. Pretty straight forward way of determining how to move forward. If you don't want to do any of the work, Then start shoping for local builders in your area. In my case, it's all about saving as much coin as possible. If I'm on a budget and I am, Then I have to shop for deals as they come up. I also have to perform as much of the work as possible. I would rather save as much of that $95.00 per hour rate as possible. Dropping 100K into a car is easier than you think. Problem is, when it comes time to sell it. Chances are very good you won't recoup that level of investment.
Another consideration is when it comes to replacing parts. Do you want original GM parts or is aftermarket ok? The price difference is staggering. A repo Hood is about $200.00 A GM Hood, try closer to $800.00 And it goes on and on and on. Outside Mirrors, repo under $100 a pair. GM, $300 and higher for a pair. New GM parts are going run about 4 times the cost of repo.
You can save a bundle if your willing to shop around and aren't in a hurry to get the car done. And now is as good a time as any, for deals.
If I ever had a spare 50K :noway: I would buy a finished car. Far and away the cheapest route to take. Cause your gonna spend that and then some when it's all said and done.
Just stay focused on what you want and what your budget is.

So What did you decide?

I packed that convertible up and sent it to the man....

Frank....Prodigy Customs

Its started ugly and is going to come back a masterpeice.....http://www.intensemuscle.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27736&d=1239233075

Going to be mini tubbed with probably the exact same tire package as I saw 69vegas's camaro on here with the big 345 back tire

http://www.intensemuscle.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27737&d=1239233088

I cannot say enough how great it has been working with Frank during this process.....I highly urge anyone who is deciding who should restore/make/customize their car to contact him.....I toured many a car place out here in Cali (too many) and got the details I was looking for with no runaround in my first conversation with Frank. He bottom lined it to me and I was very happy with what I heard.

http://www.intensemuscle.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27739&d=1239233175

http://www.intensemuscle.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27738&d=1239233100

any updates?

Yes, what started out a a nice mild Pro Touring fix up has turned into a complete monster including mini tubs, 4 link. Subframe, and a 50 mile 2010 Camaro Drivetrain is on the way to us as we speak.

We got a bit behind schedule on his car finishing some other cars that simply refused to leave. We finished 6 full builds in 5 months, one right after another. Hardcore has turned into a full badd ass build, one of our superstar cars for 2011 it will be.

Stay Tuned

Thats awsome!!! What happened to (paraphrasing) "just want tight steering and good paint, nothing too crazy"....LOL

Had a feeling this would happen, after reading the whole thread. Bet your getting close to the original quote.

You know it will be done right with Prodigy though. Sounds like an awsome build!

I just read this whole thread. I am glad to see the car and customer are in good hands now. Sounds like it will be a killer ride when done.
Hey Frank...any pictures from the shop yet??:D