Hi guys I have already posted pictures in the tag team section and there was some great feedback. I went to look at the car today and it all seems to check out. I am posting some new pictures, hoping to get a ballpark price for this fine ride. As per the previous post it is an original paint car. The only parts that are not original as far as I can tell are the carb OE replacement, chambered exhaust, headers, power break resevoir and starter.

Owner claims the tires, paint, motor, M22 trans, & interior are all virgin original. Car has protecto plate and all numbers appear to be matching.

Dash pad is seperating top and bottom. This is a driver quality car and has 54,000 original miles.

Please let me know if find anything that does not look original or correct. You guys are the experts and your help will assist me in making a well informed offer. I am not an expert on 69Z's but I do have enough background to think that this car checks out. But with todays market I want to make sure that I pay a fair price for this car. Obviously if this was a concourse restoration it would be worth far more, but what is a driver quality numbers matching 69 Z fetching these days.

Thanks fella's I owe you beers!

PS just when I spoted this car I was about to restore my 68 plain jane 6 cyl protecto plate car. Am I smoking crack, or should I just buy a finished car that I really like? This Z is pretty much what I am looking for, even though I have owned my car for 25 years and bought it from the original owner. You have probably already figured there is sentimental attachment to my 68, but in the big picture, based on what I have been reading on this site, recomendations always seem to point in the direction of buying a car that does not require a full restoration.

Give it to me straight. I can take it!

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More pictures
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A few more pics. PDQ, NH Bandit, what do you think?

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Awesome looking car. I find the trans crossmember is in backwards and those are not OE trans bolts & washers in the crossmember.

I do like the center cap picture. It is an optical illusion - it appears to be an "internal" cone rather than an "external" cone.

Still a nice car.

Nice car ,a couple more pics!!!!!

Those are not original Ubolts on the rear springs. I would be skeptical about original paint claim. Looks like some black spray bomb touch up on the firewall, bellhousing painted, etc.. The rear quarter doesnt look factory in the trunk to me. Looks like it was replaced maybe. Not sure about that POP and the dealer stamp looks too perfect. Rear leafs look replaced. Hmmm...

The car 'looks' good in the photos, but.... 1) The paint appears to be clear coated to me.. check that out with a little polishing compound and a rag .. if you can't lift some 'color' then it is clear coat and NOT original. 2) some parts of the car could be imagined to be well cared for original, but others like engine/bh/trans have obviously been out and cleaned/painted as a minimum.. and a few other things call the 'unrestored original' into question. How long has this owner owned the car? It's possible that his car is an 'older restorationi', such as from the 80's or 90's... I'd question everyth8ing and check it all out thoroughly as possible.

Original tires? With 54000 miles? You were lucky to get 20000 miles out of bias ply tires.

Mike, you asked so -
As Jonesy Posted the rear 1/4 panel looks suspicious in the pictures you posted, it does not appear to have the factory pinch welds where it meets the tailpan in the weatherstrip area, I would look in the door jambs along the rocker to see if the pinch welds are still there, they are very hard to duplicate. Also are both baffles in the trunk area where the 1/4,s meet the tulip panel?
It is also missing the inspection cover on the bellhousing, and I am pretty sure the oil pan is wrong, I compared the bottom of 2 originals I have and the 1 on this car does not look anything like mine at all. Not sure on the rear springs, they appear to have the factory folded band clamp with the flat rivits, would need to see a better picture of the bottom of the springs to be sure. The back of the booster is painted black as well as the wiper motor grommets and bolts, I am pretty sure someone has spray bombed the firewall. Pretty sure the hose clamps are repo,s as well.
Nice looking car overall, but the paint is way to shiny to be original Lacquer IMO. I live in Calgary , is the car close to me?

Hey guys thanks for all of the feedback. I aksed the seller if the car was clear coated and he said he does not know. The guy who is selling it claims he got from the second owner about year ago. Previous to that it was stored for at last 15 years. He told me that he rebuilt the motor and changed the leaf springs and shocks. He said the transmission was not rebuilt. Obviously the diff was painted, but I was suspicoius about the clear coat right away. I ran my fingers over the stripes and there was no difference. I thought that it looked to good to be true. I was also concerned about the dash pad having lifted right off the dash at the top and bottom. I really suspect that the car made have been painted at some point, perhaps a long time ago, and the clear coat no so long ago. Not sure why someone would have painted the bell housing. Rear package tray was changed for sure. Sure wish I was an expert. Current owner has a bunch of copo Chevelles and appears to know a lot about Camaroes as well. I don't think he would be fooled but you never know? Is the protecto plate really in question? Also really curious about the motor VIN?

Hopefully we will solve the mystery soon, as I don't want to make an offer on the car if it is not original. I need to be sure that it all checks out to pay big bucks. Question is how much is it worth if it is the real deal, and how much if it is not?

Beers on me!

Regarding the tires I had doubts as well, but current owner says they are original because the tires are made in USA and say all repops are made in Mexico. I am not up to speed on tires. I guess they could have been stored all these years but there is virtually no wear on them. Even has those little rubber antenas sticking out in a few places. They must not be original. Any tire experts out there?

Experts? Well, I own a set of original Tiger Paw's. Still have them. Does that make me an expert? Oh, they were worn to the cord in 11,500 miles. Took about a year. Good thing they invented Polyglas tires then. I got 35K out of those. Then came T/A radials, then my Gatorbacks. Am I an expert yet???:D

Mike, I hear that there's a cottage industry making bogus POP's. On my POP, there is no mention of a zip code like on your picture. There isn't even a spot to put a zip code. And I don't have that used-car 'OK' stamp either. There is one mention of a zip code in my owners manual. It's at the last page for ordering a shop manual from Helm. Be very cautious,,,,,

if i'm not mistaken the rally strips had a hard tape line on the inside of the trunk from the factory not just faded out. mine was like that anyways and i know it was origenal paint, ruff but origenal.

Original Tail panel to Quarter panel seams look more like this...
http://inlinethumb21.webshots.com/44052/2712123500059464720S425x425Q85.jpg

Re the tires.. . ask the owner what the DOT marking is.. that will provide the mfg date of the tires...

Can you tell by the picture of the tire that I posted?

My friend just bought a Silver non cowel induction hood 69 Z from the original owner.All original paperwork 1 owner car.Still has the original Factory lacquer paint! Deluxe black interior car. He paid 55K!

Hey Dan any pictures so I can compare it to the one I am looking at?

What is the asking price?

Since 1968 , the United States Department of Transportation (DOT) numbers requires DOT markings on new tires in USA. That marking consists of the letters DOT followed by 10 digits. The last 3 or 4 of those digits will be the week/year of manufacture of the tires. Note.. I think 1969, 1979, 1989, etc.. will all have the same marking but I'm not sure.. . hopefully the degree of 'dry rot' of the tire will help you pin down the decade..

Here is a website with a partial explanation of DOT codes:
http://www.tiredefects.com/news.cfm?Key=DOT-tire-code-number-markings%20&News=2089

Zip codes WERE heavily in use in 1969, they came out in 1963 ...

Listed price was $72,000.00 Canadian, but owner told me he would not take less than $65,000.00. Still seems high to me.

65K CAD = $53 USD Seems fair you can confirm it is what he says it is. I would agree on a price and them ask him to split the cost of a JM certification. I would also require him to pay the cost of the certification if it comes back a fake.

Mike,Send a email to me at chevyiimuchpa@msn.com and I'll attach some pictures....Dan

Very nice looking car. I wish my 54,000 mile survivor had as nice paint and chrome. I have owned mine for 38 years.

I doubt that the paint is original... Looks way too glossy and deep. The stripes need to be painted on top of the Silver and have a ridge. Also, the stripes were painted on after the car was assembled, not seperately with perfect masking on the cowl. I have never seen a silver GM car from the 60's with a deep high gloss finish. When new there was little or no deep gloss, and silver would dull within a decade unless never parked in the sun for very long. Mine was not well kept and was dull by 1980. I know of two very low milage original paint silver Corvettes, and both are very dull.
http://i377.photobucket.com/albums/oo219/Jack_Gesler/Z28atGR-1.jpg

If the tires are original it would be nearly impossible. Here is the condition of my original tire that had less than 20,000 miles when it was regulated to the spare.
http://i377.photobucket.com/albums/oo219/Jack_Gesler/IMG_0998.jpg

All in all a nice car, but there are other non original items on this car. Judge it by what is, not on what is claimed, and you should be in good shape. I like it, I have a soft spot for Silver Z28's.

Jack

Hi Jack thanks for the info. I am full agreement with you. This car is not what it is claimes to be. Definitly has a coat of gloss on top of the paint whether the paint is original or not, but I highly doubt the paint is original. Advertised as an original survivor, but does not have original Carb, Exhaust, Tires, Paint, exhaust manifolds, rear package tray, starter, that I can tell so far. If there are other non original items please let me know. Present owner claims that the heater hose and clamps are original. Given what we know so far what do you think the car is worth?

69Z28freak... all the things mentioned by you and noticed by others (except for improper installations/bolts/etc) are items normally replaced during use.. even the paint.. original lacquer seldom lasted 40 yrs.. (especially the silver as Jack pointed out).. so perhaps it IS an original car, that has had items replaced, repaint, etc.. during use, and perhaps even a 'warm over restoration' a few years back.. People were 'restoring/resurrecting' Z28's as far back as the early 80's.. Get good photos of the original stampings from the engine, trans, rear end, data plate, vin plate, etc.. and make sure they all came with THAT car originally... then make a reasonable offer for what it is if you still like it.

Hi Gary I have posted all of those pictures, here they are again. I also really like the car, but I am trying to figure out what a resonable offer would be. It is a nice car, but not a perfect car. From what I can tell it is an original car, but I find the asking price high and I am wondering if there is a strong enough case to talk the owner down in price, based on the concerns mentioned. I am not sure if he will budge on his price, but I have nothing to loose by asking. It is being advertised as an original paint car. I guess the question is, is the car in it's present condition worth what the owner is asking? 72K Canadian.

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Hmmm ?? Maybe the "original paint" is UNDERNEATH the new paint !!??

Hi Fred I have a POP for my 68 and it is called a Owner Protection Plan. The POP does not have a zip code either and it has masking tape under the dymo label. It does not look anything like the 69 POP.

Hey James the seems on the 69 as you can tell by the pictures made me very suspicious as they are so perfect. The paint is also too perfect. It has also been pointed out that the stamp of the VIN on the block looks too perfect. What is the chance this car is a fake in one or more ways?

I would want a clearer photo of the V0412DZ stamp and broach marks on the block unless you are sure they are real and legit...

I am very suspicious... but the tt looks real...
FYI the intake manifold bolts are wrong, the valve cover finish is the newer style and wrong, the posi warning is a sticker... originals were heavy paper and hap-hazzardly glued in place... ...

If you can buy it was though it were not matching and given the fact that it as been painted... at the minimum...

Take everything the seller says and throw it out the window. He's obviously been at this game a long time. You can tell he is lying because his lips are moving. Buyer Beware!

the stamps with the vin on the block, when they are that easy to read, I am always leary, those stamps are so light that it takes a magnifying glass to read.

I have to agree with the Chuckster.. assume the seller is lying about everything. Go see the car, make an assessement (ask to remove the alternator so you can see/photo the block stamping more clearly. Be prepared to make him an offer in line with what the car IS... rather than what he *says* it is. If the lies are extreme, it would make me hesitant to buy the car, but anxious to point out a few of them to him (*in a nice way).. :)

I have very very little doubt the TT is real and original to the car... so based in that it is a X33 MINIMUM... it does have ORIGINAL interior... quite valuable... it is most likely a non matching retamp with either clear or one repaint.Typical of an 80's back yard restoration... VERY TYPICAL!

What is the guys name that is selling the car .
Mark.

Hi Mark Paul is selling the car. Do you know him?

Hi James what do you think the car is worth? What does TT mean? where is the posi sticker? Obviuosly the term all original survivior is open to interpretation. My idea of an original paint survivor that is all original is exactly what it says. This car may have some original paint, but I think it is a repaint with clear coat, and perhaps the block, heads, and trans are the only original drive train parts. Rad looks legit, original interior.

Non original exhaust, headers, starter, valve covers, oil pan, battery, power brake resevoir, gas tank, shocks, tires, rear package tray, front fender.

TT: trim tag

Duh! Go figure? Any guess what this car is worth?