Difference between long headers and short [Archive] - Team Camaro Tech

: Difference between long headers and short


Camaro1969
Feb 13th, 09, 08:19 PM
What is the difference between long headers and short headers. Also saw something called hugger headers. With the short headers, I will be needing a curved pipe extending to the exhaust, right? What would be ideal for a 69 camaro 350. Also, what is the key difference when it comes to 4-2-1 and 4-1. Thanks guys

Short Hugger Headers

http://www.macsradiator.com/ProductImages/exhaust/mufBlockHugger.gif

Long Headers

http://www.sporttruckdirect.com/Pics/PAC/PAC%20Headers%20Long-Tube%2072C2264%20Big.jpg

BPOS
Feb 13th, 09, 08:29 PM
For starters

http://www.sandersonheaders.com/tech_get_technical.php

CRAZY 350
Feb 13th, 09, 10:51 PM
The main difference in short and long tube headers is the power and torque they make. Shorty headers are good for low end, long tubes are good for top end power.
Honestly I would go for longtubes headers. There are tons of headers out there for that car that are money friendly and work.

Dynatechs are real cost friendly and get the job done.

dubs68camaro
Feb 13th, 09, 10:59 PM
It would probably sound sarcastic to say that the long tubed ones are longer than the short ones. I actually thought the long tube headers made the more torque. Doesn't scavenging come into play too?

CRAZY 350
Feb 13th, 09, 11:21 PM
The long tubes ,make more torque up top, the shorties make more torque down low.

Ex. Longtubes. will make more Torque at say 5000 RPM and more HP
Shorties will make more torque then the longtubes at 2500 RPM and Less HP

Camaro1969
Feb 13th, 09, 11:37 PM
is it better to have

more Torque at say 5000 RPM and more HP

or

more torque at 2500 RPM and Less HP

CRAZY 350
Feb 14th, 09, 12:13 AM
Torque is what gets the car moving. But all in all, I have always used Long tube headers unless either 1. gorund clearance was an issue, or money the other issue.

I myself go with longtubes everytime I can. They make good numbers and work well.

After you decide on what style header you want, you have to choose the header that wil make the most power as they are all constructed and bent differently for power applications.

67 Plum
Feb 14th, 09, 08:55 AM
We ran both on our circle track Camaro and couldn't tell a difference.Car Craft I think did a dyno comparison a few years ago and it was only 5 or 10 hp between the two.The shorties do give alot more ground clearance.But won't work with stock clutch linkage.

Camaro1969
Feb 14th, 09, 02:53 PM
I wont have a clutch linkage because if have an automatic trans, but I do have powersteering, which i know may come in the way.

Also, when buying for example short hugger headers, since the ground clearance will be much greater, do i have to buy additional pipes for the exhaust to curve and go up more.

I plan on buying a 2.5 inch flowmaster system, do they usually give more pipe than necessary or will i be need buy more and do additional modifications ( i know i will be doing some work with the exhaust, but in regards to adding more pipe thats not provide in the kit, basic question is, do they give more pipe than i need?)

67 Plum
Feb 14th, 09, 02:59 PM
Also, when buying for example short hugger headers, since the ground clearance will be much greater, do i have to buy additional pipes for the exhaust to curve and go up more.



You will need to have a shop bend you some short pieces to go from the header to the exhaust system.

pdq67
Feb 14th, 09, 03:43 PM
I think that you will find that the short, block hugger headers are really made for street Roadsters b/c they tend to dump right where ramshorns do so won't fit our cars!

pdq67

ssdoug
Feb 14th, 09, 04:12 PM
The long tubes ,make more torque up top, the shorties make more torque down low.

Ex. Longtubes. will make more Torque at say 5000 RPM and more HP
Shorties will make more torque then the longtubes at 2500 RPM and Less HP
Ive never seen short blockhugger type headers that are long enough to get in the first wave ??

Camaro1969
Feb 14th, 09, 05:36 PM
what headers are recommended, and are price friendly, im spending a lot on paint, engine, interior, and trying to the best i can! im looking in the range of maybe $50-150.00. I think im am going to go with the long tube headers, and 4-2-1 application

Camaro1969
Feb 14th, 09, 06:19 PM
Would these flowmaster pipes/exhaust fit this application of headers?

Exhaust:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Flowmaster-17139-Exhaust-Sys-CHEVROLET-CAMARO-1969-1969_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ350155928897QQptZMotor sQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_2239wt_15 52

headers:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=WLK%2D85001&N=700+4294908216+4294908198+4294840140+115&autoview=sku

pdq67
Feb 15th, 09, 02:45 PM
Somewhere there's an article that tell's all about how primary pipe length teeter-tooter's around an rpm point for hp and primary pipe diameter teeter-tooter's around torque production and the same rpm. (OR something like this??)...

Designing headers is a real juggling act, and then throw in BOTH collector dia. and length, it get's complicated in a NYM!!

For a given engine combination, you have to find the right primary tube length and dia and then make sure all 4 pipes on each side are darn near the same length, then match these to the correct dia. and length collector! ALL for a given rpm!!

So this rpm become's the focal/design rpm "point" and you design to it and let everything else kinda rock on each side of it the best you can!

This is deep sh*t and I hope I haven't confused you.

pdq667

Camaro1969
Feb 15th, 09, 04:49 PM
completely confused! lol

pdq67
Feb 15th, 09, 05:32 PM
Don't feel bad b/c like I said, header design and dynamic compression ratio, (i.e., DCR), is way DEEP.

It's taken me years reading about all of this stuff to even be able to talk w/ the experts here and I am by no stretch an expert!!

pdq67

Camaro1969
Feb 15th, 09, 11:28 PM
would these 2 work well together? i am hoping they do..

Exhaust:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Flowm...ht_2239wt_1552

headers:
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

onovakind67
Feb 16th, 09, 05:44 AM
completely confused! lol

Here's a link from a past discussion on headers:

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=16596

Camaro1969
Feb 23rd, 09, 10:34 PM
i know ive asked before, but would these 2 go good together, ive read about them and they seem like they could, just need expert advice


Exhaust:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Flowmaster-17139-Exhaust-Sys-CHEVROLET-CAMARO-1969-1969_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ350168963817QQptZMotor sQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_2239wt_16 26


headers:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=BIG%2D11100FLT&N=700+4294925083+4294908216+4294908198+115&autoview=sku
__________________

67 Plum
Feb 24th, 09, 05:46 AM
i know ive asked before, but would these 2 go good together, ive read about them and they seem like they could, just need expert advice


Exhaust:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Flowmaster-17139-Exhaust-Sys-CHEVROLET-CAMARO-1969-1969_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ350168963817QQptZMotor sQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_2239wt_16 26


headers:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=BIG%2D11100FLT&N=700+4294925083+4294908216+4294908198+115&autoview=sku
__________________

IMO yes.

Camaro1969
Feb 24th, 09, 02:50 PM
http://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS/872439/10002/-1

what do you guys think of this, it may be Jegs, but its bang for you buck, you can alwasy switch the muffler to a flowmaster right?

- what are you honest opinions about this one?

67 Plum
Feb 24th, 09, 06:18 PM
Price is good but I bet the other fits better.Either will work it depends on what you can afford.

Camaro1969
Feb 24th, 09, 06:21 PM
i know its not a flowmaster, but will it still have that great american muscle idle? and the rumble when it takes off, or will i need to get a flowmaster muffler?

Camaro1969
Feb 24th, 09, 06:52 PM
also, will there be clearance issues with the steering box?