I am thinking about buying the K&N X-Stream 14x4 assembly. Is the performance gain worth the money? I understand I'll never buy another filter but I have 4 brand new paper filters in the garage. Maybe just buy the top piece for now? It seems that even without the cowl induction body for the filter a round 14" element sucking air from the cowl opening would be a big improvement over sucking warm/hot air in from the sides only. (I do have the cowl hood)
Any experience or opinions would be appreciated.
Thanks
Don

I have one! Not sure as to to benifits. I personally don't like the look of it. I want to get a spun alluminum top for mine.

The way I look at K&N Filters is, take them off and look at your intake runners, you will notice a fine grit in the runners. I don't think a marginal at best increase in air flow is worth letting that grit get into your engine and embedding itself into the bearings and cylinder walls leading to increased engine wear.

I have heard good things about the Amsoil nano-fiber air filters, but it would be interesting to see if they allow the same grit through that K&N does.

I do not think that a K&N filter is as efficient as a paper filter for removing contaminants. I do not think it is worth it when a properly sized paper filter will perform as well.


TTFN
Mat

Well, all I can say is that when we were dirt track racing (roundy round) we wrecked a very good engine by using paper filters. We then switched to the K&N filter, and never had that problem again ! What do the desert racer's use ?

I've run K&N for years and never found grit down stream of the filter. I've seen online tests showing the K&N doesn't filter as small a partical as some others but I'm well aware a test can be far beyond the scope of practical to prove a point.

A dirty element is likely to let less contamination through for the simple fact that it's plugged up. An air filter that breaths or flows better is likely to allow more small particles through than ones that don't flow as well. Basically there is a trade off, air flow vs filtering. I don't have data sheets with numbers but I'll bet what ever the micron level a K&N filters to is within safe limits for an internal combustion engine.

Same results here as far as dirt track racing-way better than a paper filter.

I've run K&N for years and never found grit down stream of the filter. I've seen online tests showing the K&N doesn't filter as small a partical as some others but I'm well aware a test can be far beyond the scope of practical to prove a point.

A dirty element is likely to let less contamination through for the simple fact that it's plugged up. An air filter that breaths or flows better is likely to allow more small particles through than ones that don't flow as well. Basically there is a trade off, air flow vs filtering. I don't have data sheets with numbers but I'll bet what ever the micron level a K&N filters to is within safe limits for an internal combustion engine.


I dunno just about every person I know who has run K&N I have shown them the fine grit left on the inside of their intake. Most never had looked at how clean or dirty their intake was. (Clean) Paper filters don't seem to leave the same debris.

I kind of put K&N air filters in the same category I do Monster Cable or any other product that makes broad unfounded claims. Many people swear by them but the facts just don't support the claims. I would find it hard to believe that K&N air filter would outflow much if any a traditional paper element that was clean and not clogged with dirt, grass or a rat's nest.

If K&N was so good how come no OEMs use them, even on performance cars? In many cases K&N air filters have been shown to actually lower the HP over a OEM setup. The OEMs do a lot of research and as such if the cotton gauze design was superior in terms of fuel efficiency or HP it would see some use.

Ed there is more than air being passed through an intake. When was the last time you questioned how well a fuel filter works?

OEM does'nt use 'em because of cost......

After all the K&N stickers on the rear winder of vehicles, I personally have no desire to buy one.

The biggest baddest cars on the face of the Earth don't even use air filters, so I don't really look into it. Just throw on your standard filter that is flame retardant.

I find the comments from the dirt trackers interesting. I've wondered what somebody with some abusive race experience would have to say (without being paid to do so).

I was using a tall (5" I think) paper filter under a cowl hood and got talked into the K&N filter and lid by some friends. I did notice that I had to turn up the idle when I switched over to the K&N. After all I'd spent, I can't say I was too impressed. I think you'd have to dyno your car with both types to truly see if there was any real performance gain. I've been thinking about getting a spun aluminum lid and going back to a tall paper filter, but I'm not sure yet.

Some test data for those interested.
http://duramax-diesel.com/spicer/index.htm

like all test data it just presents results, only you can determine what you want and what works best in your application, such as dirt track etc.


TTFN
Mat

I'm not even going to comment on this one... someone hasn't done their homework.

My hot rod made no difference on the chassis dyno with the filter or with no filter. Taking that into consideration I run one on my hot rod where most of the guys I race don't.
I also run one on my wifes cougar. It was purchased from Ford and has a motorcraft part number.
I don't run one on my powerstroke diesel because a tech friend of mine said the stock filter flows as good.

Just my .02

Wow, no agreement here. IS427SS since you commented, what do you mean by "someone hasnt done their homework"? Say what you're thinking. Obviously to increase flow you have to have a larger passage. The real questions to me after reading these posts are: Are the particles allowed through detrimental to engine life or so small who cares? If they really do stink, is it just the advertising that makes them show up at every car show and track? And if all of the dirt track guys swear by them, is it a lack of proper oiling that results in the negative diesel test and responses or is it really good at blocking clay? Usually this site gives me a clear picture, not so on this one. Keep them coming guys.
:hurray:

I did'nt use the K&N for HP gains, but for the simple fact it is reuseable after cleaning and oiling. You can walk thru the pits at about any dirt track and see why dirt racers use 'em. I use one of them Fram 'Hogs on my pickup, did'nt notice any hp gains with it.

I love my K&N! I use them on everything that I own.

I also have been looking for the lid for my cowl hood.

What - you all haven't experienced the 20hp gain? C[mon - that sticker alone is worth at least 5hp. Screw the K&N lid - I want a K&N hood - that would be worth at least 100hp - wouldn't it?

What - you all haven't experienced the 20hp gain? C[mon - that sticker alone is worth at least 5hp. Screw the K&N lid - I want a K&N hood - that would be worth at least 100hp - wouldn't it?
The sticker is worth 20hp but when you sharpie the white letters black it boosts it up to at least 50. Supporting mods such as other performance stickers and chassis lights boost the performance 10%.

I see this too often, therefore I had to.

Don't forget the rice......

Guys im gonna have to try this K&N filter with lid filter to try and get more air flow, i hope it works and i will let you know. Because my BBC 498 is suffocating with the 3 paper and chrome top.

We have a simple air flow machine in the local advance auto I work at and the k&n does out flow a paper filter. There are no tricks with the device. It is made out of clear plexiglas so you can see everthing that is going on inside the machine. I've pulled filters off the shelf and used them instead of the demo ones that came with the machine just to be sure. I got the same results. The k&n outflowed the paper filter easily. I'm considering purchasing one of these lids myself. Skeeter, let me know how it works for you.

I use the 11" K+N x-stream setup on my Camaro. It's been on there for 3 years and I like the job it does filtering without choking the car out like the paper filter and chrome top did. I also use a K+N replacement for the stock filter on my truck thats been in there since 98 and have had no problems with it either. Will put one on my next vehicle purchase in the future. As for the problem with mass air flow sensor, I made that mistake once after cleaning and re-oiling the filter for my truck, my own fault, used too much oil and did not let it set and soak in for the required time. I had to clean the sensor with sensor cleaner, I didn't make that mistake again. That was more 5 years ago.

We have a simple air flow machine in the local advance auto I work at and the k&n does out flow a paper filter. There are no tricks with the device. It is made out of clear plexiglas so you can see everthing that is going on inside the machine. I've pulled filters off the shelf and used them instead of the demo ones that came with the machine just to be sure. I got the same results. The k&n outflowed the paper filter easily. I'm considering purchasing one of these lids myself. Skeeter, let me know how it works for you.I will do... My motor ran awesome with NO filter and then im now running the 14"x3" paper filter with the chrome top and its chocking the living snot out of my motor... I talk to Patrick at Pro-Systems and he said the same for my combo BBC 498 it need more air & fuel so when i put the 14"x3" paper filter with the chrome top it started to run way rich and started to carbon up the spark plugs to much. The plugs were checked before the air cleaner and they were nice clean and brown instead of that nasty black carbon look. Its gotta be better and especialy with a cowl hood to bring in some cool air right down the hole.

I knew I was on the edge of being too lean at WOT and proved it when I added the K&N filter lid, also proved the lid made a difference. It would start popping and spitting above 4000 rpm @ WOT with the filter lid. Putting the chrome lid back on and it rev'd freely without issue. Jetted up and put the filter lid back on and there was no more popping and spitting...

I knew I was on the edge of being too lean at WOT and proved it when I added the K&N filter lid, also proved the lid made a difference. It would start popping and spitting above 4000 rpm @ WOT with the filter lid. Putting the chrome lid back on and it rev'd freely without issue. Jetted up and put the filter lid back on and there was no more popping and spitting...Dennis that is good news and i hope it helps mean lean out a little with more air flow... Thanks for the info:yes:.

Everything that I have read from people that have dynod with the x-stream lid says they cost horsepower.
Its been theorized that air coming in from the top as well as the sides causes problems.

Everything that I have read from people that have dynod with the x-stream lid says they cost horsepower.
Its been theorized that air coming in from the top as well as the sides causes problems.
X2 I was waiting to see this .Every time I ran the lid on the dyno I saw the same thing . I was never able to tune this out of the carb .:beers:

don't want to start a bonfire, but as-for the allegations of a K&N allowing more dirt to pass as compared to a conventional filter, I would challenge the install first, then compare apples and oranges.
i/e: how secure/sealed is the base mounted to the carb ?
do we use filter sealant "grease" ?
are there any openings in or around the base to allow the dirt intrusion ?
openings in the carb itself ? (I removed the choke apparatus on my 750 Holley. after-thought reminded me to plug the small opening where the choke rod runs-up thru the carb housing).
many more questions & answers will come to light as we inspect our installs and question the fitment ........
it took some trial and error to mount the Extreme lid on mine, (SS hood), because of the big block/Weiand Stealth intake/ 750 Holley caused clearance issues,, and even now, the lid slightly rubs the hood reinforcement rails. (cross braces).
I run K&N filters on the Camaro, the Corvette, and the 2003 Duramax.
I've not had any problems to note, although I haven't removed any fuel-workings and inspected the cleanliness of the plenum area... interesting observation.
is the cost of the K&N Extreme lid and base filter "worth it" ?
to me,, it was. :thumbsup:
this would have made a good poll. :beers:

Everything that I have read from people that have dynod with the x-stream lid says they cost horsepower.
Its been theorized that air coming in from the top as well as the sides causes problems.

X2 I was waiting to see this .Every time I ran the lid on the dyno I saw the same thing . I was never able to tune this out of the carb .:beers:

Based on my own experience I would say the filter lid created a lean condition that would require a jet change to richen the mixture. This was a common every day issue with motorcycles when removing the air box and using UNI, K&N or any foam type filter. Back to our cars you see many different filter and volicity stack configurations being used at the track on a variety of cars in competition, even running with no air filter element at all. Can I ask what was done when trying to tune for the filter lid to gain back lost HP?

So if I read that chart right, k&n isnt that effecient as to keeping particles through it. Hmm interesting. Question, what about holley's power shot though? Would they be the same thing?

Good thread. Hotrod Magazine tested a crap-load of air filters a few years ago. They weren't looking to dirty them up and I sure don't remember the brands that were tested. But I do remember that even the shorter paper filters that came on our cars from the factory, flowed about 1800cfm. :yes:
Another bench-race myth laid to rest. Oops didn't a couple of folks here 'prove' that stock-stuff was bad?:D
And I run a K&N, but only because I hate to look at dirt. Before, I was going through an air filter every six months. Not now.

Good thread. Hotrod Magazine tested a crap-load of air filters a few years ago. They weren't looking to dirty them up and I sure don't remember the brands that were tested. But I do remember that even the shorter paper filters that came on our cars from the factory, flowed about 1800cfm. :yes:
Another bench-race myth laid to rest. Oops didn't a couple of folks here 'prove' that stock-stuff was bad?:D
And I run a K&N, but only because I hate to look at dirt. Before, I was going through an air filter every six months. Not now.


i cant imagine the stock filters flowed anywhere close to that. the wix website says their replacement filter only flows 250 cfm. the stock filter would have to be chicken wire to flow 1800.

Based on my own experience I would say the filter lid created a lean condition that would require a jet change to richen the mixture. This was a common every day issue with motorcycles when removing the air box and using UNI, K&N or any foam type filter. Back to our cars you see many different filter and volicity stack configurations being used at the track on a variety of cars in competition, even running with no air filter element at all. Can I ask what was done when trying to tune for the filter lid to gain back lost HP?
JMO it changed the signal at the booster. The way it turned the air at the top of the carb was not consistent acrossed the rpm range. I tried this two times two different cars 482.BBC. 69 Chevelle. 406.SBC. 68 Camaro. Both had problems when the hood was closed . Changed back to steel top AFR. curve came right back.

I see no real consensus. Someone mentioned a poll. Is that an Administrator thing or can a Team member set up a poll? I see no tab and nothing in the Members area.

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii152/tjs69_photos/KNfilters.jpg

i cant imagine the stock filters flowed anywhere close to that. the wix website says their replacement filter only flows 250 cfm. the stock filter would have to be chicken wire to flow 1800.

l:)chicken wirel:)

No, you will lose power everytime, and it is a fire hazard, as one good belch will light up that oil used to trap dirt.

HERE (http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9032) is a good thread on it.

i cant imagine the stock filters flowed anywhere close to that. the wix website says their replacement filter only flows 250 cfm. the stock filter would have to be chicken wire to flow 1800.
;) Do you think for a minute that the factories would supply air cleaners that only flow a third of what their carbs flow?

I think what you are seeing is first K&N used their own benchmark in order to not make a direct comparison with stuff they are trying to replace, then a company like wix used K&N's benchmark to show they're better.
This kind of stuff is why Hotrod did their test.:yes:

This probably doesn't fit into this thread but my Challenger RS 340 MAG with the Plastic 850 Thermo-Quad caught fire every time if I attempted to start it without the air breather installed and no DODGE bashing after all it was Chrysler's attempt to copy the 1st GEN Camaro and it did handle much better but they made it from tinfoil and it simply rusted away - LOL

;) Do you think for a minute that the factories would supply air cleaners that only flow a third of what their carbs flow?

I think what you are seeing is first K&N used their own benchmark in order to not make a direct comparison with stuff they are trying to replace, then a company like wix used K&N's benchmark to show they're better.
This kind of stuff is why Hotrod did their test.:yes:

so you think that K&N tests every filter wix makes and they wix uses those numbers as their own bench mark?

and how could hot rods cfm test possibly be that much higher? cfm=cfm=cfm

Well folks for me , I have had my K&N installed since my 96 powerstroke was 1 year old. This is my farm work truck and it see's it all. 90% gravel driven when not right in the field eating dust all the time. Gets cleaned every six months wether it needs it or not, lol. I now have 400,000 miles on that motor and it has never been opened up, burns less than a quart every 2500 miles, get the crap pulled out of it regularly. I like my K&N.

I just got the ignition curve, timing and most of the carb settings right on my newly built 388. I have a 14" diameter, 3" tall K&N with the K&N lid and a cowl hood minus the flapper. I just ordered a 14" diameter, 5" tall paper filter and am going to try the set up with that. I'll let you know if there are any noticable differences.

No, you will lose power everytime, and it is a fire hazard, as one good belch will light up that oil used to trap dirt.

HERE (http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9032) is a good thread on it.


When I stated this, this was in reference to the X-stream lid, not the filter itself.

When I stated this, this was in reference to the X-stream lid, not the filter itself.
X2 :yes: