After reading one of the threads on whether to either flush fit or front edge the leading edge of the front fender to the door, I was hoping that some of you race/aerodynamic types would inform me as to what speed the vehicle has to be moving before either f/r spoiler begins to become operational. I've heard that the huge spoilers on some the tuners are a laugh, as they have to be going at a high rate of speed to become operational. The ones on the Camaro, I've always felt to be more of a style option. :confused: Anyway, would like for hear from some of you on this if you would share.

Thanks in advance.:beers:

capt

This will help, same article the second link has more details...

http://www.camaro-untoldsecrets.com/articles/rpo_d80.htm

http://www.yearone.com/enthusiast/restoarchives/winter99/18-21camaro.pdf

Hey, Den...thanks for the heads up. :thumbsup: Used to think as mentioned that the rear spoiler was more of an ornament on the Cam, but will have more respect for it now... but as pointed out in the article...speed is the main factor.

capt

What I found interesting is over all performance (less lift in the front and down force in the rear) comes with running the front spoiler only.

What I found interesting is over all performance (less lift in the front and down force in the rear) comes with running the front spoiler only.
Ya, I thought that strange as well. Makes you wonder how well that humungous spoiler on the Super Bird works, and at what speed it starts to effect the car...like at 20 mph (just kidding, eh?):)

Cool article Dennis

Ya, I thought that strange as well. Makes you wonder how well that humungous spoiler on the Super Bird works, and at what speed it starts to effect the car...like at 20 mph (just kidding, eh?):)

The spoiler on the Superbird worked so well that NASCAR banned them because NO other cars could keep up.

The spoiler on the Superbird worked so well that NASCAR banned them because NO other cars could keep up.
Thanks for the input, DH...I remember watching a special on race cars, and that roof flip up panel...and how effective the device works, even if it looks so small.

capt

At 75mph or faster I could physically feel the rear spoiler pressing the rear end of the car down. The faster you went the further down it pushed. This was on a 67 (6D build date) with a dealer installed rear spoiler that I had back in 1978.

Funny thing that you should mention the rear of the car being pressed down over 75 mph, Jim... the thing I noticed getting pressed down was the grab bar above the glove box by my wifey...followed by some choice words.:)

capt

the rear spoiler on second gens does make a noticeable difference in the way the car feels.

kind of unrelated, but when i put a chin spoiler/air dam under the radiator support on my 74 Monte, the front of the car felt a lot less "floaty" and more connected to the road. when i blocked off the grille, it made the car feel like it was glued to the road.

I put a rear spoiler on first 69 Camaro many years ago, but no front spoiler. Not understanding the effects of aerodynamics at the time I thought it would be fine, besides it looked great. What I found out is that at 115 mph the front would get really light and make the car very harder to keep straight (bias ply tires). Now it all makes sense to me, I will be adding the front spoiler to my 68 when it finally completed.

I have had my 68 Camaro well over the 120MPH mark both before and after the spoilers were installed and I honestly think there is a huge difference in road feel. I didn't drive it at all with only one spoiler, either front or rear, so I don't have any input on that.

I remember reading in some auto magazine years ago that the second spoiler available on 2nd gen Camaros, the so-called duck tail, caused rain water to run up the rear window at 85 mph.

Back when I did not understand the concept of mortality, I drove my 67 rs/ss 350 conv with no spoilers 120+ mph and the front end was extremely floaty. This was almost as disconcerting as the brake pedal hitting the floor as I (almost) stopped for a stop sign after the high speed run.

On the other hand, my 1969 Firebird 400 with a Camaro style rear spoiler (only) was rock solid at 140+ (indicated). I always attributed it to the heavier front end, but maybe the spoiler had something to do with it as well...

I couldn't read the second article, but I remember hearing that the Camaro spoiler provided 50 lb of downforce at 60 mph.

zdld17-Was that on the Reservation? Lucky you didn't break down and have to leave your car! Rumor has it they strip them there. It wasn't all that many years ago and Montana didn't have a daylight speed limit. Just reasonable and prudent. When they dropped the Federally mandated speed limit, it went back to that for a short time before they made it 75 MPH.

zdld17-Was that on the Reservation? Lucky you didn't break down and have to leave your car! Rumor has it they strip them there. It wasn't all that many years ago and Montana didn't have a daylight speed limit. Just reasonable and prudent. When they dropped the Federally mandated speed limit, it went back to that for a short time before they made it 75 MPH.

Na, don't do this kind of stuff out of Texas or unfamiluar roads, long stretch north if Amarillo. I imagine leaving a car like any of ours on the road will get stripped.

Gotta refrain from this kinda talk here.

I currently run a front spoiler only and at 125mph or so you can really feel the back end lacking downforce. It feels lofty. I have a rear spoiler in my garage for this exact reason. If I'm feeling it at 125, I can only imagine what its going to be like at 150 once I swap in my T56....

The car needs both spoilers.

I cracked my front one a while back and tried running the car without it, and it felt very lofty over 100mph....

The front spoiler also increases the airflow through the radiator and lowers the pressure under the car to suck the hot air from under the hood.

I can tell you my front spoiler on my street racer is fine on motor passes of 126MPH, but it folds under at $145 on nitrous. I can also tell you we shorthen the rear wing cause the front tires were dancing at 145MPH before we trim it down.

I think 150ish is where they start to work.

Just curious Frank, I assume all three supports are there. Does it fold between the center and outer supports? Maybe a stiiffer fiberglass or aluminum repro might stand up?

Dennis, I feel you eliminated my post in error as the topic continues. Therefore, I will not renew my membership.

Nice talking to all my buddies. JimM, MarkLW, Click, Chris, nice knowing ya.

Just curious Frank, I assume all three supports are there. Does it fold between the center and outer supports? Maybe a stiiffer fiberglass or aluminum repro might stand up?

No, I should have mentioned I have no supports on a original (not repro) spoiler. i do not run the supports as the front is only for decoration and rubs the trailer going in and out, so braces would bend instantly.

the front seems to make no difference, I have run with and without, the rear..........that makes a difference.

Dennis, I feel you eliminated my post in error as the topic continues. Therefore, I will not renew my membership.

Nice talking to all my buddies. JimM, MarkLW, Click, Chris, nice knowing ya.

Don - your post was the only one that specifically talked about racing another car on the street. Frank called his car a street racer but from what he said his high speed runs may have been on the track, there was no mention that he was street racing or on public roads. The other post mentions "concept of mortality" but nothing there says illegal street racing or public roads either. In you post there is no question that you were on public roads, there was another car involved and you were racing at high speeds for over 5 miles. You spelled out every detail, how can I ignore that?

I try to be as fair as possible with this stuff, I'm actually kinda of shocked you would want it any other way! I'm sorry you feel the need to bail on the site, I'll miss your participation but don't understand why you feel you have to try to hold your participation over my head! The no street racing policy has been with TC from the get go. Removing your post wasn't personal so I hope you reconsider your goodbye. TC is a great resource and I know you have made some great friends here, this sure is a trivial reason to give it all up!

And I should clarify, I call it my "Stree Racer" because it is a street legal race car I RACE AT THE TRACK ONLY. Street racing is for idiots.

Here it is driving in off the street into the race track

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/DSC00191.jpg

And using the track

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/DSC00237.jpg

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/DSC00220.jpg

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/DSC00268.jpg