I've decided to bite the cost bullet and go with a hydraulic roller. I called Comp Cams and they suggested the XR300, which is a bit much I think. Any suggestions on the cam? My set up is a 388 with RPM heads, about 10.5 compression, RPM Airgap with 700 double pumper, Tremec TKO and 3.73 gears. I have the 282S now but want a bigger cam. Also what other parts will I need besides the cam and roller lifters?

There's not a whole heck of a lot between the 282 and the 300...

I run a voodoo hr, adv duration is 282 / 290. It's pretty mild, idles @ 850 / 10", revs over 6500 np.

You want a billet cam, preferably with the pressed on iron distributor gear. Cast core cams don't last. - $300-$400

Good lifters. Best are morel, also sold by lunati under their label, $550.

Hydraulic roller lifters are tall, you will need custom length pushrods, you will also need to put it all tgether (with checking springs and an adjustmable pushrod) to measure before custom ordering. I used comp hi-tech's. you want good strong heavy wall pushrods, the darned things bend like twigs under stress. another $100 plus.

You need to limit the movement of the cam. I used a comp teflon button, with a couple washer behind it to set the endplay. I've a short water pump engine, right up against the timing cover, long water pump guys will need a stronger timing cover to take the pressure. $cheap

Then we get serious on top of the heads. You need 130 lbs on the seat typically, and close to 400 over the nose. The lighter you can keep the valve side of the valvetrain, the better she will rev. No matter what you do, she's not gonna rev like that 282S. HR lifters are way heavy,
I used these lil tiny 1.2" single springs, titanium retainers, and my afr 195's use valves with 8mm stems, considerably lighter than a stock small block valve. The whole package is so light it floats over the bench. More $$$$

And mine is still noisy as hell, clacking to beat the band when it's cold.
But the valves don't float, not even at 7000 rpm.

I have the comp xr282hr in my car and it makes boat loads of torque and hp. I went 11.90 with this cam and a zz4 crate motor. Very happy with it. They make it retrofit and for late model blocks with factory roller cam. The card says 2500 to 5800 but comp told me it's good to 6500. I rev my zz4 to 6200 all the time.:D

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CCA-08-432-8&autoview=sku

Nice post Jim.

I bet you love them AFR's... I know I do.

Did you order yours with the titanium retainers?

Did you order yours with the titanium retainers?
yes, and with those cute lil valvesprings.

JimM,
Have you taken your setup to the track? If so what was the times and what is your setup??

Thanks for all the information Jim, you seem to know your stuff. There are many issues I had not counted on like the pushrods. I would have never though of that one. Thanks again.

I am going with a comp cam 286hr in my 327. it has the rpm air gap, edelbrock rpm heads also. I had to buy a comp cam adj. pushrod checker. The heads call for .100 longer than stock, but the comp cams retro roller lifters are tall like Jim said. They suggest around a 7.29, so I just got the 7.8 to 6.8 pushrod checker. That should get me i nthe range needed.

JimM - on the topic of the steel cam with pressed on gear - I guess some manufacturers say what they need to say to sell their products - the Comp Cams tech said he would never run a pressed on gear (then he dropped a loud metallic object on his desk and said that was the end of a cam that broke where the gear was pressed on) that he would only run the billet with the billet gear or the other roller core they have that I forgot what he called it that is distributor gear friendly. This seemed like a biased claim at the time, since I know many manufacturers offer the pressed on iron gear.

On the topic of pressed on gears, how does that work exactly? I assume the last bearing journal also pressed on as part of the gear?

Ray

69IsTeal, Let me know what you come up with for length. Mine should be the same since we have the same heads. Thanks

69IsTeal, Let me know what you come up with for length. Mine should be the same since we have the same heads. Thanks

Stock pushrod length 7.8
Edelbrock rpm alum heads + .100 to pushrod length
Retro hyd roller lifters - .500

So you are looking at 7.4 baseline, then there are factors such as the lift of the cam, head milling, etc... I would think. They all say to check with a length checker and not assume the math above applies to every case.

JimM - I see Lunati has the expensive Hyd roller lifters in the $600+ price range that I assume are the ones you are talking about. I also see that have some less expensive ones in the $300+ price range. What are your thoughts on these versus the expensive ones and others out there like the Comp Cams hyd roller lifters, for longevity in a street engine?

JimM - I see Lunati has the expensive Hyd roller lifters in the $600+ price range that I assume are the ones you are talking about. I also see that have some less expensive ones in the $300+ price range. What are your thoughts on these versus the expensive ones and others out there like the Comp Cams hyd roller lifters, for longevity in a street engine?

Those 300 ones are for limited rpm range I believe upto 6500, so I guess it would depend on your use of the engine. The expensive comp am ones are rebuildable I thought, I dunno about these lower end ones.

Thanks for the information, I would have never guessed all the factors could change everything else.


Stock pushrod length 7.8
Edelbrock rpm alum heads + .100 to pushrod length
Retro hyd roller lifters - .500

So you are looking at 7.4 baseline, then there are factors such as the lift of the cam, head milling, etc... I would think. They all say to check with a length checker and not assume the math above applies to every case.

JimM - I see Lunati has the expensive Hyd roller lifters in the $600+ price range that I assume are the ones you are talking about. I also see that have some less expensive ones in the $300+ price range. What are your thoughts on these versus the expensive ones and others out there like the Comp Cams hyd roller lifters, for longevity in a street engine?

I'm not Jim, but I think these are the Morel retro lifters Jim mentions. (If not please correct me).

Might save you a few bucks.

http://www.engine-worksperformance.com/Default.aspx?tabid=137&LineCode=EW&PartNo=10550-16


Mike

So, do the lifters Mike68RS linked to compare with the $640 lifters at Lunati, in which case yes that is a good price, or are they the same as the $340 lifters at Lunati?

I run a xr282hr in my 10.7-1 383 with Afr 195's-love it
xr300 with e rpm's doesn't sound like a good match(those heads with somthin in the 276 range rocks)in my opinion the 300 range is better covered with SOLID rollers

I run a xr282hr in my 10.7-1 383 with Afr 195's-love it
xr300 with e rpm's doesn't sound like a good match(those heads with somthin in the 276 range rocks)in my opinion the 300 range is better covered with SOLID rollers


Greg. This is the cam i told him to use in an erlier post. It's the cam i run and it does make lots of torque and hp.:yes:

First... I'm no expert, but when I did this setup last year, I knew who to ask, Mike Lewis (Wolfplace on Team Chevelle) Gary (GOSFAST here and on Team Chevelle) and others.

First remember the cam company's and other manufacturers are big businesses. They are run as much by their marketing departments as they are by the "car guys." Phone tech support is generally not the highest paid position in the world, and doesn't require an awful lot of knowledge. This is not to say everyone on a tech line is crap, many are not, but some are just reading from a script, and all must toe the corporate line as far as policy.

Cast core cams are cheap to manufacture, and therefore they are profitable to sell. One big cam company in particular sells a lot of cast core rollers. They keep backing down on their spring pressure recommendations, trying to reduce failures.
IF THE VALVES FLOAT, THE ROLLERS WILL LEAVE THE LOBE. THEY WILL SKID OR SKIP WHEN THEY LAND, AND THE CAM WILL DIE. This is an even bigger problem with rollers than it is with flat tappet cams, and with both hydraulic and solid rollers.

Billet cams are much HARDER than cast, and they can take a lot more abuse. They also cost 2 or 3 times as much.

Billet cams are so hard that they eat (normal standard) cast iron distributor gears. The cam becomes damaged as well.
For this reason, billet cams need BRONZE distributor gears. BRONZE is soft. It is SACRIFICIAL. It's used to SAVE THE CAM, and they need to be replaced every so often. This is a RACE combination, not really intended for the rigors of street use.

The pressed on cast gear is the solution. Yes, it includes the last bearing journal as well. I've never heard or read of one coming apart.
This is the solution for high mileage street cars. No more wear problem with normal standard distributor gears.

Yes, the expensive Lunati lifters are Morel. These are the ones recommended to me by Wolfplace. Any forum member shopping, I HIGHLY RECOMMEND calling Mike Lewis os Lewis Racing Engines. He will get you the best prices, and he will burn an unbelieveable amount of time educating you on this stuff, just act halfway intelligent and ask the right questions, then sit back and listen and learn. Better yet, save the mans valuable time, search the performance forum on Team Chevelle for posts by Wolfplace, then read and learn for a couple hundred hours.

Don't assume anything fits together or works together. We BLUEPRINT custom engines because we are mixing a zillion non stock parts from a dozen aftermarket vendors inside one unit trying to make a good cohesive package for a purpose and goal created by you or me.

Check everything.

Then check it again.

Don't assume that just because Joe Blow on the forum used the same heads as you that the same length pushrods will fit.
Don't assume that just because I didn't need a reduced base circle cam you won't either.
Don't EVER assume your compression ration is what it says on the box of pistons!!!

And don't blame the manufacturer when something doesn't fit, doesn't work, or goes boom. Blame the builder. He didn't check.

Check everything, then check it again. If you don't know how, search, ask, and learn. If you don't have the tools, buy them or borrow them. When you're done, you'll have built a good engine and learned a lot in the process.
You'll be a better gearhead.

I run Crane retrofit rollers on my SBC 400. The pushrod length ended up at 7.250" with my Sportsman II heads. Always measure though as all engines are different.

I used a two piece chrome timing cover and turned it into a 3 piece. I used the oval shaped ring from the two piece so that cam changes are easy. Then I took a Cloyes Quick Button and milled it flat and removed about 1/16". So now I have a 3 piece with the adjustable cam button and easy access to the cam.

For the fuel pump I used a roller tipped fuel pump pushrod. It is a little heavier than my old Moroso light weight, but it will last longer than a bronze tip. A little pricey at $100.

I have the Trick Flow 1 piece pushrods. They are strong and fairly cheap. Plus they are easy to get in .050" increments.

lluciano77 - I did the exact same thing with the Cloyes Quick Button cover and generic two piece to create my own (previously thought to be) unique 3 piece. Great minds...

I also had to mill down a section of the outer part of the cover for clearance for my short water pump.

This was much less expensive than a premade 3 piece - assuming you have milling abilities or at least a friends who does.