Just wanted to post this question, I ordered and paid for nearly 4,000.00 worth of parts at the end of Dec. 08, to date I have only received around 1/3 of the order ( missing the big ticket items like wiring harnesses, interior kit, breather assembly, etc. ) I have been told on several occassions that the items were damaged in shipping, not statisfied with interior kit, and bold faced lied to on other occasions. I paid with a USPS Money Order and sent it certified mail. All the parts that have came in are from OER and this is a dealer for them, I contacted them to ask about the parts that have not arrived for availibility and all were in stock ( even the ones that took 2 months to get ). So how much longer should I wait and keep getting the run around or should I go ahead and report it as mail fraud ?
I dont want to be unrealistic or am I jumping the gun ?
The vendor in question is Vintage Camaro out of Washington.

Once you pay for something they only have a limited time to get it to you or refund your money. I forget how many days that is but for some reason 20 was stuck in my mind. I would give them a warning and if they dont give you a tracking number then start doing other things that might motivate them.

Just wanted to post this question, I ordered and paid for nearly 4,000.00 worth of parts at the end of Dec. 08, to date I have only received around 1/3 of the order ( missing the big ticket items like wiring harnesses, interior kit, breather assembly, etc. ) I have been told on several occassions that the items were damaged in shipping, not statisfied with interior kit, and bold faced lied to on other occasions. I paid with a USPS Money Order and sent it certified mail. All the parts that have came in are from OER and this is a dealer for them, I contacted them to ask about the parts that have not arrived for availibility and all were in stock ( even the ones that took 2 months to get ). So how much longer should I wait and keep getting the run around or should I go ahead and report it as mail fraud ?
I dont want to be unrealistic or am I jumping the gun ?
The vendor in question is Vintage Camaro out of Washington.

Really!? That really surprises me, I have met and dealt with Don, the guy that owns the place on several occasions and he is always great to deal with, and I actually recommended him to a buddy that just did a complete '67 restore with great results as well. He's a really good guy so I'm very surprised to hear that you have had issues.
I'd get in touch with Don again and explain the fact you are at the point of feeling like you got the shaft and considering legal action, and see if he helps you out or at least can offer a fair explanation. Again I'm amazed you are having problems, this is the first I've ever heard of problems with them. Bummer, I hope you get it worked out, good luck!

Just wanted to post this question, I ordered and paid for nearly 4,000.00 worth of parts at the end of Dec. 08, to date I have only received around 1/3 of the order ( missing the big ticket items like wiring harnesses, interior kit, breather assembly, etc. ) I have been told on several occassions that the items were damaged in shipping, not statisfied with interior kit, and bold faced lied to on other occasions. I paid with a USPS Money Order and sent it certified mail. All the parts that have came in are from OER and this is a dealer for them, I contacted them to ask about the parts that have not arrived for availibility and all were in stock ( even the ones that took 2 months to get ). So how much longer should I wait and keep getting the run around or should I go ahead and report it as mail fraud ?
I dont want to be unrealistic or am I jumping the gun ?
The vendor in question is Vintage Camaro out of Washington.


Cliff,

Not sure of the wiring situation, and such, but what type of interior are you waiting for? The reason I ask is that OER is out of stock on the deluxe interiors. The door panels are on perpetual backorder. 3 months does seem a bit long. We actually had to wait for door panels for 3 months for one of our customers,but that was just one part, not the bulk of the order like you are describing. I'm sure there must be a reason for it. Vendors do not like backorders either. It costs extra to ship after the fact,and basically tends to create ill will. I hope it is resolved quickly for you.

Hello, Thanks for the advice, Parts that are still missing are Deluxe Interior Kit for a 67 Pace Car Convertible ( Blue ), White Convertible Top, Engine Harness with gauges, Forward Lamp Harness, Rear Light Harness, 69 Camaro Engine Harness with gauges, Misc. Decals, well molding clips along with other parts, the list is long.
I have explained to Don how disappointed I was at the lenght this has taken and gave him untill March 31st. to either have my complete order filled or a refund, also emailed him with no response, I dont want to be a butt but this has gone on long enough, I was trying to get both cars ready for summer and this has really put a damper on things

Cliff
pm sent

IMHO, the vendor should charge me when the product ships and not a second before. If I buy from a vendor, they charge me, and then the product ships days, weeks or months later, that's the last time I deal with them. Banks are supposed to finance a business, not the customers.

I've only dealt with one vendor who charged when the order was placed and shipped much later, and I'll not deal with them again.

I agree !

Shoot my guy sends me parts the next day and bills me later. Sometimes 2 months or when i call him to ask for a bill.

I guess it pays to know who you are dealng with, I have bought tons of parts from other vendors for different cars and NEVER had this problem, it is very dishearting that this has happened,the guy seemed real nice and helpful , I hope it all ends well.

And one of the best tools you can use to protect yourself is a credit card. Never send a check.

I sent a USPS Money Order and it went out certified mail, talked to the Postal Service and they told me I had sent it the right way in case it turns ugly, which I dont think it will, I never pay with a CC and give out info over the phone.

I've paid with a credit card on the phone and over the internet for over 10 years now...never had even a small problem. Using credit/debit cards is a lot safer than most would believe as long as you know a few simple things about security. Using the credit card to purchase items has saved me more than once when things got ugly.

Does anyone know this guy, if so can you call him, now I am getting a message about enter in a PIN code, I would appreciate any help !

I sent a USPS Money Order and it went out certified mail, talked to the Postal Service and they told me I had sent it the right way in case it turns ugly, which I dont think it will, I never pay with a CC and give out info over the phone.
The benefit or danger with a credit card is not that someone steals your number from a phone tap or an insecure vendor. CC's protect you from that too.
With the problem you are having with your vendor, the procedure it to send a letter to your card company. Outline the disputed amount and ask for a 'charge back'. The vendor is contacted and if he ignore's the notice, you get your money back. Then there is a waiting period of about 30 days. If still no response, case closed. Very easy.
What the USPS doesn't want you to understand is that their service is mired in antiquity just like their mail. Get a card. Use it. Keep the balance paid off. That's the only rule. Hell, you can't even rent a car without one.:noway: Used wisely they will save you a ton of cash. The whole world should be your shopping basket.

Cliff,

I have met Don who is a really nice guy and even bought a few parts from him. But, I have had the same problem in that he doesn't get the parts I am looking for and doesn't return emails or phone calls. He is a regular vendor at the All Chevy & Camaro Show in Issaquah, WA each July which is sponsored by the Pacific Northwest Camaro Club (pnwcc.com) and you can check over there to see if anyone can put you in contact with him. I would send him a nice, but stern registered mail letter demanding all of the parts be shipped or a complete refund issued within 7 days. If he doesn't respond, you can file a Small Claims action in order to get a judgment.

Here's the contact info I have:
Vintage Camaro
Don Martinsen
848 NW Maryland Ave
Chehalis, WA 98532
360-740-1551
vintagecamaro@msn.com


And Don if you are reading this, sorry buddy, but you really need to work on your customer service and order filling process!

Charlie 69 Camaro RS
70 Challenger

Wow thats really too bad, Don is a really good guy. Hopefully he can get things straightened out for you. As I mentioned I have dealt with him a bunch in the past as have a couple of my buddies with zero problem. I saw him last Puyallup swap meet early this year and everything seemed fine, I hope for both of your sake it gets taken care of, always sad to see a good vendor go down, we don't have many good local guys around here either.
Keep us posted.

Thanks for the responses, I am sending out a Certified letter Monday, Just like Charlie said, Customer Service is something you cannot buy, you have to earn it !

I'm the owner of the 67 Cliff is attempting to complete. Because of this extra ordinarily long wait, he is currently at a stand still. We are waiting on a box that was said to be shipped 17 days ago FEDEX, then later informed it was shipped via USPS???

I was a former dealer for Classic Industries (CRP -- Classic Restoration Parts) and never strung customers along like this. If the item was on back-order, I would inform the customer immediately. They could elect to wait or I would refund the customer if they chose that route. As we all know the key for everything is communication... The items that have yet to arrived are currently in stock with all the major part houses such as Year One, Classic Industries, D&R, and Ricks. I excluded NPD, because they have never offered a dealer program, however they too have the bright blue "Al Knock" panels and PUI seat cover interior kits in stock.

Don is a great Guy to talk with and has a vast knowledge in First Gen information; however I'm reluctant to resend business his way after this long drawn out ordeal. I have dealt with him in the past on a few occasions that were cash and carry and was very pleased. However at this point in time, I am very frustrated with him due to the numerous excuses and the lack of that valuable key word “Communication”. I just wish he would honor his end of the deal so we can all move on from here.

Tom,

I was thinking this morning that had you (or Cliff) paid with a Visa or M/C, Don would likely have only charged you for the items he had shipped and once the remaining inventory arrived (provided you had not cancelled the order), he would have sent them out and charged your card appropriately at that time. Sending the money order for the full amount left him with few options.

That said, it's still not an acceptable bussiness practice to not communicate and hold on to customer funds for four months without being responsive.

Best, Charlie

Still no response !!!! Bummer

I’ve called several times today including one just a moment ago. 20:07 PST. He's screening his calls. I have zero tolerance to this type of behavior!!!

I'm not sure this guy understands the serverity of the penalty one could receive under mail fraud.
Being paid with a US Postal Money order and not honor ones end of the deal can result in a federal conviction. https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/forms/MailFraudComplaint.aspx

Just got thru making a letter to be sent out certified mail asking for a refund on the items not received, upon getting letter he has 7 days to either completely fill the order or a refund, if he does not do that he will have the FTC and the Postal Service handling it, the link Tom provided above is VERY good info and something that all vendors or sellers should read carefully.

Well guys, maybe you're living too much in the past. I remember when postal inspectors used to actually respond to complaints like mail theft. Not these days. Deregulation has gutted these agencies. Hell, none of the feds responded to Bernie Madoff complaints. These people don't have the welfare of us little car freaks first on their list. For the most part, they don't have a list.

I spoke with clerk from the Post Office yesterday about this very situation. She informed me this practice is on the rise; however these matters are dealt with swiftly and sternly. We little guys don't have the money or power to buy off the authorities unlike the Madoff's. But their dooms day finally caught up with them. My Parents live about 30 minutes south of Chehalis WA. (Where Don is from). I plan to visit them soon. Maybe sooner if needed. I’m quite confident the extra trip up north won’t be necessary. I’m sure Don will complete the order in the next week. Nobody likes negative attention drawn to them; plus he seems like a really good guy at heart. I'm thinking he was caught up in a financial jamb and borrowed from Cliffs payment and hasn't caught up yet. If that’s the case, he needs to be honest. 3 plus months and counting is too long of a wait. Hopefully he made enough profit in Portland this weekend to pay for our order.

Tom, I question the clerk. Such statements appease the customer at the counter. But ask to file a complaint. Try to get an investigation going. That'll tell.
Oh, Madoff isn't accused of buying off anybody. The regulators just didn't know what they were doing.

Fred,

Maybe you had an experience with some lazy people on you end not wanting to do what they are paid to do. This lady down here seemed very adamant about this. I think the public is fed up with scammers and will not tolerate this type of behavior any more. I will not let it rest until I get what I paid for. My money is hard earned and I can’t afford to squander away 4K on behalf of another’s corruption. The way I understand your comment above is the Con artist are protected and the consumer has no rights. I'm not so sure about that. A person will only skate if you let them. Put some fire under their A$$ and watch what happens. Everybody has a Supervisor and that super has a Supervisor. The local media would love to hear about another government worker not doing their job. It's on the news down here in So CAL everyday. Workers are cracking down on this to protect themselves from loosing their jobs. Especially in this day and age of “RESESSION” Just my two cents worth. Once again, I won't let it rest. Dealers can be dropped with simple call to their vendors.

Still no word or parts, so all that are considering buying parts, word of advice deal with someone local or the big guys, I wish we could have a feedback for vendors on here something like Ebay so hobbiest will know who to deal with from the feedback.

I feel your frustration, I ordered a few items from Classic Industries last November. A week after my order they mailed me and said they needed another 7.00 for shipping sent the money that day.One item a Master Cylinder Cover has been on back order since. I make it a point to call them once a week asking about my part. Always the same answer its still on back order. I have bought thousands of dollars worth of parts from CI never had this much trouble. This will probably be the last 7.00 they get from me!:mad:

Fred,

Maybe you had an experience with some lazy people on you end not wanting to do what they are paid to do. This lady down here seemed very adamant about this. I think the public is fed up with scammers and will not tolerate this type of behavior any more. I will not let it rest until I get what I paid for. My money is hard earned and I can’t afford to squander away 4K on behalf of another’s corruption. The way I understand your comment above is the Con artist are protected and the consumer has no rights. I'm not so sure about that. A person will only skate if you let them. Put some fire under their A$$ and watch what happens. Everybody has a Supervisor and that super has a Supervisor. The local media would love to hear about another government worker not doing their job. It's on the news down here in So CAL everyday. Workers are cracking down on this to protect themselves from loosing their jobs. Especially in this day and age of “RESESSION” Just my two cents worth. Once again, I won't let it rest. Dealers can be dropped with simple call to their vendors.
No lazy people. But the system is so easy for your 'protectors' to let your complaint slide or to just file it. Us small fish aren't on their list of important complainants. Since the credit card was invented, the rule is NEVER send cash (or check).

Well since last post, I received the wrong wiring harness for my 69 Camaro, misc. items, buy still no big items, and he has not responed to my email demanding my money back or the complete order within seven days. No other options except to turn it over to the USPS and file a complaint for mail fraud. Lessoned learned to do business with only a REPUTABLE AND QUALITY VENDOR, THIS GUY MISREPRESENTS EVERYTHING AND TELLS YOU WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR. CAMAROS.NET SHOULD BAR VENDORS FROM THIS SITE THAT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF CAR HOBBIEST.

Also if there are anyone of you that want to send a NICE email to him, it is vintagecamaro.net, Thanks

I have two GM Master Cards.. one in my wife's name, and one in mine. I get a 'cash back' credit of 5% of my purchases (to use against a new GM car puchase). They allow you to build up to $500/yr, for 7 yrs (so up to $3500 CASH to use in purchase of new GM cars... Since 1997, I've bought a '97 Silverado, a 99 Camaro (for daughter1), a 2005 Vibe (for daughter2), a 2005 Silverado an a 2007 Silverado... In total, I've used close to $13,000 of GM card credit towards the purchase of these vehicles. I pay my balance each month; use the car like 'cash'.. and don't pay an annual fee... it's FREE money, and I benefit from the CC protection mentioned above.... :)
PS. I much prefer using a CC; case in point. I bought a pair of heads (needing rebuild, but matching date numbers I needed) from a TC member in January. I sent him a Money Order for the full amount, including shipping, for them to be delivered. I received ONE head; UPS lost the other.... Now I'm out $450, have ONE useless head.. and what in hell do I do about it??? I can go to Wisconsin, and see the guy, but that would cost me more than I've already wasted.... in such cases, where we pay in advance with MO or otherwise, we're trusting to the seller's morals and ethis..... :(

Maybe in such a case,,, Paypal? I have an account with them. Always works, but I don't use it often.

This is the reason I sent a USPS moneyorder certified mail with a signature requested, I will be turning it over to them Monday, I am tired of wasting my time with this deadbeat, with sending it the way I did he committed mail fraud thru the Postal Service, and I have been assured this was the best way to send it to protect myself from fraud, Once I report it they will handle it from there and they really take offense to this crap.

On the PayPal subject, it is a joke, they debitedmy account 3 times for the same transaction in the amount of 2700.00 each time, I reported the mistake to them in less than 20 minutes and they even admitted the mistake on there part, IT TOOK ME 7WEEKS TO GET MY 5400.00 BACK TO MY ACCOUNT, LUCKILY I DID NOT NEED IT AT THAT TIME

Well to let everyone know, I tried to call Don @ Vintage Camaro as a last attempt only to have someone answer the phone and hang it up ( can you say caller ID ), well I can see at this point the lifeline has been used.

Hate to hear/read about this, Cliff.

I don't have anything to add to help, as I've never been in the situation.

Hello Dave, how is the new building coming along, yea its a bummer, I never had this happen either, this guy must be really hard up and living in fantasy world to think he can do this to people, I never get upset and I am not upset about this, but just trying to warn people about this guy. If you do 1 thing right for someone they will tell 1 person about you, but if you screw up that same person will tell everyone. Might be coming to LR soon to talk to some Mopar guys over there, if the building is through I would lke to see some of the projects.
You need to post some pics of some of the projects you have going on.

I hear ya, and I understand what you're sayin'.

Shop is pretty close to being done. Maybe... finally.. who knows... clicky ( http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=137362&page=7) and/or the link in my sig.

Only 1/2 mile down the road from the old shop, so it's not hard to find.

Greetings to all, I am sorry to see that I am a multi page post on the forum. Cliff, you need to contact me, I Emailed you just a while ago , and as I can see you have the email wrong, probably why you didn't get a responce. It is vintagecamaro@msn.com, not vintagecamaro.net , I am also posting my phone # for you again in case you have lost it, 360 740 1551, as it appears that that is also the case. Nobody here can screen calls, I don't have caller ID, never have, never will. There is a answering machine for when I am not there, feel free to use it. Please if you have received a wrong part, return it for an exchange, that is how that works, always glad to exchange for a right part when a mistake has occurred. Like you stated, communication!!!!!! Have a great day.

Don, I just want my parts that I paid for over four and half months ago, I have talked to you on several occassions about this, the last time was back in March, and at that time we both agreed that either my money or parts would be in by the end of March, still I do not have the rest of my parts, I emailed you yesterday with the list of parts that was paid for, I did receive a call from you yesterday. I just want the parts I paid for and ordered. If you do not have a copy I do. Also why has it taken so long on my parts ? I have also communicated with on several occassions, the last time when we both agreed to a dead line on the order.

Cliff,

Any update as to getting all of the parts? If Don still owes you parts, has he made a commitment to furnish them or refund your purchase? If parts are still outstanding, can you give us (and Don apparently) an itemized listing as it would be easy to constru from Don's post that there should be little if anything still due.

Thanks, Charlie

And one of the best tools you can use to protect yourself is a credit card. Never send a check.


:yes: :thumbsup:

As of today ( 4/28/09 ) I have been told the parts have shipped back on 4/16/09 and have not received nothing, Don told be the top was sent out over 3 weeks ago, again nothing, he told me that he reordered the top from Classic Industries, again nothing, I have asked as well as Tom for tracking numbers only to have mine and Toms request go unanswered. Also for everyones info Tom is the gentleman in the Airf Force that paid for the order because it is his car ( 67 Pace Car Convertible ) I picked the car up in Memphis, Tenn. to finish the car for him since and deliever it to him, Tom has never even seen the car in person only in Pictures, I also have never meet Tom except over the phone. I bought a 71 Cuda Convertible from him and we have become friends, also I have never even seen the Cuda. I was going to finishing he car for him in time for summer so he could enjoy it before possibly going to Japan for a year. But to answer the questions previous, I have not received anything, and here is a list of the parts:

Wrong wiring harness
Not received :Bumper Bolt Kit, Well Molding Clips,Dip Stick, Dip Stick Tube, Exhaust French Locks, Power Steering Cap, Plug Wire Heat Sheilds, Fan Shroud Bracket, GM Fan Shroud, Convertible Top with pads and hold down cables with plastic rear window, grill fastener kit, headlamp bezel screw kit, headlamp cover screws, complete lock set with keys, antenna mount kit, RS 10amp. circuit breaker, back up light harness, complete deluxe interior kit, engine harness, light harness, headlamp retainer screws, neg. battery cable, pos. battery cable, bumper bolt kit ( for 67, the other one was for my 69 ) air cleaner assembly, assembly manual, dipstick for Power Glide Trans., Dipstick Tube for Power Glide.
As you can see the list is long, and I am very pissed about this and being told stuff has been shipped and I have not received nothing.

The amount adds up to right around 2800.00, the original order was right at 4000.00, so we have received 1200.00 worth of stuff and a 200.00 wiring harness that is wrong, so to say that we have received the bulk of the order is a gross overstatement

There are a lot of poorly ran businesses out there that don't understand good customer service. Even when the owners/managers mean well. But intentions are no excuse for running your business in a manner that screws over your customer.

And some businesses in the car world are ran by 'car guys' and not business men but in the end usually a couple e-mails or a phone call or two and the situation is corrected.

Thanks for the heads up Cliff and I hope you get everything. Tell your buddy thanks for what he does (even if he sits around in an air conditioned office, haha).

I'm sure you are reading this Don and from your one post, you made it out as a simple matter of Cliff & Tom possibly having received a couple of incorrect parts and their use of an incorrect email address or phone number was the root of the problem. That is clearly not the case and therefore we ask: -------- what say you? It is our expectation that you come clean and either explain yourself or refund the sum of $2,800 plus the wiring harness. No one likes to see this type of situation and the buyers have clearly given you sufficient time to procure the merchandise as well as communicate. To date, they have not received the merchandise nor effective communication.

If that doesn't get a favorable reply from you, I can imagine how the Pacific Northwest Camaro Club would feel about the situation (pnwcc.com).

Charlie

ps: I'm sure some of the guys have taken the time to read your helpful posts in support of other members and the hobby and even been aware of the floods that have affected you personally. But, that still does not explain away the above.

Nice post Charlie, I have no intention or motive to hurt the guy, but I just wanted everyone here to know what is going on and to light a fire under his butt to get us the parts, talking to him he seems like a nice guy, but that does not explain or help me get the parts we bought. Thanks

OK, resolve is almost here to some aspect. A refund is being sent for what wasn't ordered/shipped. I was originally told that everything but the top and air breather was shipped 3 plus weeks ago. Then I learn differently this morning. (Imagine my surprise) As it turned out about 2/3rds of the remaining order is now said to be shipped and according to the tracking #’s that have recently been provided, the packages were shipped on Wednesday (29 April). 19 days after I was originally informed they were in transit. I noticed this afternoon the GM Fan Shroud I originally ordered has since doubled in price and is one of the items that weren’t shipped including the Top. One can only imagine my frustration and disappointment in this whole ordeal and numerous stories.

I’m in need of a good dealer that can deliver and give a reasonable break price. I used to be a dealer For Classic a few Years back and tried to give the parts to the customer for what I had to give or a bit over to cover my expense. I realize their isn’t much margin for profit, but was hoping to find that guy. I’ve been extremely disappointed and burned by Ricks recently, so they are ruled out indefinitely. I’m leaning towards Way-broke – as seen on EBay. Is there anybody out there you guys have had good experience with that is ready to deliver now and not 6 months later? There should be a QC section identifying the who’s who of Camaro Venders and the quality of products that’s currently out there.

Don't know, but in your case, Paypal would help you avoid headaches on ebay.

Don, I know you are going to read this, you did not send the total refund and also sent wrong parts, I am going to the Post Office first thing in the morning and file the complaint, I am thru playing games with this. Also I did not accept the certified letter with the 750.00 money order, you owe more than that and you know that as well, all I can say to others is BEWARE this dude is a piece of work.

If you need a good dealer I would wholeheartily recommend Firewheel Classic. Floyd and Pattie are A number 1 when it comes to customer service. I am very lucky to have them close enough that I can run over on a Saturday morning and pick up parts.
More than enough good things have been said about Belair Bob on our site here and he has my complete respect also.
Heard good things about Rick's Camaro for quality parts.

If you need a good dealer I would wholeheartily recommend Firewheel Classic. Floyd and Pattie are A number 1 when it comes to customer service. I am very lucky to have them close enough that I can run over on a Saturday morning and pick up parts.
More than enough good things have been said about Belair Bob on our site here and he has my complete respect also.
Heard good things about Rick's Camaro for quality parts.

I have also had good luck with Firewheel classics. Straight up, good service, let you know if they can or can't supply the part and what they think of it.

To all that has been keeping up with this saga, here is the lastest update, as of today 6/24/09 Don has still not refunded all the money, he still owes for the 4 wiring harness, after stating I was going to file the paperwork, he then sent a email stating I didnt have a leg to stand on and told me to go ahead with the charges, and that a check was in the mail over 9 days ago ( have the email that he sent ), so with all this being said, I strongly suggest people to not use this vendor for nothing, it is very obvious he does not do what he says, and feedback on this would be nice, Thanks

I feel sorry for you both, Cliff and Tom!:( I have been on the other side of dirty business and know how it feels to be burned! I have nothing that can help, i just wanted to let you know i know how you both feel. I hope this gets worked out for you guys soon. Good luck.

Thanks Doug for the comment, I am just trying to prevent others from getting burned from this guy, Tom is retiring from the Air Force in July and I will be delivering his car to him in Aug. I was supposed to have the car to him in April, but dealing with VINTAGE CAMARO and constantly being told something far from the truth set this back till July.