I've been going with Dave (sheetmetal) to the track, to help him tweak/tune his 67chevelle.
And thought I'd post here to show everyone how well his mild combo is running in a heavy car.

67Chevelle (glasshood)
3520lbs after manual gearbox & Willwood disc br.

383 - dynoed @ 525hp@6200, 500tq@5000
10.8:1
HP950
Super Victor
AFR heads - 210cc, 2.05/1.60 after porting by Greg Good (315/230cfm)
Comp hyd. roller 242/248 cam with 1.5s
1 3/4"hdrs
Full 3" exhaust with X-pipe, big Straightline mufflers - its quiet!
ATI 8"
TH350
410s

So far the best passes have been:
(first time out it was in the 7.36@93 range)
7.13@96 is his quickest (3620lbs)
7.15@97 is his fastest (3520lbs)
(roll bar coming soon)

That equals - 11.teen now, but we're shootin for 10.90 (or better) w/tuning in good/cool weather
later this yr, since in the evenings its 80+ with humidity in the 90% range and its been gettin worse. graemlins/sad.gif
Now Dave's been griping that us "dumb rednecks" cant get it to go any quicker - we'll see about that! :D
I told him to wait till the weather starts to come around and I guarantee that 10.90 (or better) slip!
We also have a "bunch" of thing/parts/tuning/tweakin left to do, since its a new combo, only been
out about 4-5 times. Not bad for a heavy mellow street car Dave, people have already walked up
askin "wheres the bottle at?" or "oh its a small block". graemlins/clonk.gif
Some future mods could be:
more rpms
1.6 rockers
intake swap
intake porting
custom cam
better heads

Just thought I'd post his accomplishment here, and let people see that you dont need a big solid
roller or 15:1 comp. to run good in a street ride, the car is pretty quiet and streetable. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Dave and I chatted last night about things. No doubt, cooler weather, AND an RPM dual plane and 10.90's are for the takin'. :D

You've got the HP and MPH now it's all about 60-foots.

Good work Dave!

67RS502,

Given the RPM limit of Dave's engine with the Hyd. Roller and the excellent heads, I would be inclined to go with some 1.6 rockers if the springs will take it and go with a Performer RPM Air Gap. He's definitely haulin' for a pretty mild combo.

Garret,

Go get those heads ported and you are sub-7.00 too. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

How's the other project coming?

Jason,
I hear ya. Just drop a check to 1940 Chevy Lane,..... ;)

Seriously though. The only thing that explains Dave's excellent performance is his excellently prepared heads.

Yea, we'll do the 1.6s (I think he has a set) down the road.
His heads aint bad, but we may step up to some better ones later.
Hey, Garret - if he goes 10.90s with the RPM, then 10.80-10.70s
should be easy with the Super Victor - right. tongue.gif ;)

Nice!
What are the shift points? trap rpm?
graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Shift points are right on the rev limiter - 6400, but we'll be workin
on raisin them!
Trap rpm? I'm still waitin on that! I've been beggin him to do the roll bar
already, so we can really see the difference in tuning and parts swappin
in the full 1/4, since the 1/8 mile doesnt really tell you if the engine is
makin more power, I'll keep trying. Also his tach wasnt workin well,
(gettin a play-back) so he's shiftin just before or on the limiter.
I've been trying to talk him into makin one full pass before heading
home (last pass), we'll see.

Red, whats your 1/8 mile times/mph?

Originally posted by 67RS502:

Hey, Garret - if he goes 10.90s with the RPM, then 10.80-10.70s
should be easy with the Super Victor - right. tongue.gif ;) AW HELL, its on now! :eek:

http://www.hobbystage.net/camaro/camaroracer/1061159447-002442.jpg

This car is running into the 10.70's with this season's changes.....and it's STILL running an RPM intake, turning 122+mph

Still leaving off the footbrake, and its lighter and turning more RPM's then Dave's car.

Dave's engine is definetly making Very good power, but my thinking is that it will be quicker with the RPM manifold considering the RPM range and weight of the car.

Originally posted by 67RS502:
Yea, we'll do the 1.6s (I think he has a set) down the road.
His heads aint bad, but we may step up to some better ones later.
Hey, Garret - if he goes 10.90s with the RPM, then 10.80-10.70s
should be easy with the Super Victor - right. tongue.gif ;) Now who's stirring the pot? The proof is in the pudding. If the car picks up with the RPM there will be no going back to the Super Vic. ;)

Besides, leaving hard is what drag racing is all about. :D You definitely ain't leavin' harder with a Super Vic. If Dave can show me quicker 60-foots with a Super Vic vs. an RPM in controlled A-B-A testing then I've got $100 check in the mail...... ;)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 67RS502:

Red, whats your 1/8 mile times/mph?

7.538 ET @ 95.01 MPH

Quoted by 67RS502 Some future mods could be:
more rpms
1.6 rockers
intake swap
intake porting
custom cam
better headsHow much better can the heads get? What kind/brand? 18*?

What can I say Garret, I like my single planes and hyd. rollers ;) Sometimes the pot needs a little stirrin - its good to get an intersting topic going, as long as we all behave ;)
everyone has their opinion, hopefully we can get some more real world testing, thats the only reason I'd like to see the RPM on there.
I do believe that Daves car could 60ft a bit better, but its already good. May even et better in the 1/8, but in the 1/4 mile I still think a good single plane will shime on his combo, but not on every combo. I just think hes reached the point where a single plane will work better. I'll also do some port work on the Super Victor, so I think I can get him 1tenth/1mph.

Thanks Red, I wanted to compare the mph, since yours mph's well. Looks like Dave should be around 121mph now, so in good weather with tweakin 122-123 should be do-able.
Canadian
No he's not planning on 18deg, but later we're thinkin well ported Pro Action 23deg heads would pick him up a bit, but I'm still doing some research there. (flow #s aint everything) we're lookin at startin out with a better (casting) designed head to begin with, then some good port work. graemlins/thumbsup.gif but that down the raod.

In a Normally Aspirated car, What you loose in the front half you cant make up on the top end, ask Any Stock/Super stock, Comp eliminator, Pro Stock racer who will give you a straight answer.

You're working with a Heavy, N/A, Street car,
60ft is Everything, the goal should be to improve that.


The more testing done with the car, the more this will become apparent.


Garrents car more then makes that point, look at his Mild engine combo turning a best of 7.15 BECAUSE of the low 1.5 60ft times.

my puter is down but will make an effort to keep you all posted. actully yhe heads flow 298/226 at .600. they still pick up a tad a .700 but my cams not that big. also i have yhe 1.6/1.5 rockers now. seems the tach was on the fritz so i sent it back and am upgrading to a "ultamite" play back. going througt the traps 1/8 mile at about 5700. i just finished porting a RPM intake to try. NOW! Guys "PLEASE" enough bickering about intakes. everyone can go to bed and rest well in this fact. i "will" find the best intake for THIS engine. i dont know what it will be nor do i care what it ends up. im not out to prove anyone right or wrong. just trying to find out what works best. Dave

Make that 7.10 @ 95.54 with 1.51 60' shifting at 5900 with puny heads that only flow 262 cfm.

Before you get carried away with the RPM. Find out if it will flow anywhere near what your heads will

An untouched RPM will go around 260cfm.

Brian, has your buddy tried a single plane intake with his current combo?

What you guys are missing, is that the Super Victor Manifold was designed around an 8000rpm dirt track motor!
The car owner is a Stock eliminator racer, who finished 14th in points in Div1 last season, he's one of the smartest people i know, if an single plane manifold were going to ET quicker, it would already be on the car!

The car is turning 10.70's with a very mild combo in a 3100lb ride, rest assured everything in the combo is helped it ET quicker, not working against it, otherwise it would not ET as well as it does.

Brian,
You lying sack of crap. Bigger is always better. ;)

Very impressive 69 running 10.7! What info can you share about car like rear suspension, compression, trani,convertor,etc.!!!!!!! thanks much for any info! AL

From the very start of this thread I knew it would turn into a dual plane vs single plane debate . . .

And all I care to say on the subject is that no one intake design is best for every car and every combo . . . what works for one racer with a particular combo may not be the best (ie: fastest) for someone else. Cams, exhaust, stall, gears, head design & flow, as well as personal preference all come into play. You just have to try different combos until you find the best one . . .

I wasn't implying that it would work better, just a simple honest question. I'll take that as a NO.

Since we're all having fun with the intake comparison I'll throw in my experience. ;)

I have a buddy with a 406, AFR's solid cam 239/249, .519/.542 and he has done A B A B A B...testing with a Performer RPM and Vic Jr. and for his combo the difference is virtually none. He loses about .02 in the 60' and does make it up in the 1/8 with the same e.t. but about 1 1/2 MPH more with the single plane. He finlly stuck with the Vic. because he liked the extra MPH at the top end for bracket racing.

I had run a Performer RPM for years and never tried anything else. When I put my new combo together I was having a problem hooking it up so I went to a Vic Jr to TRY to kill a little bottom end. The results corrected to sea level are that I lost pretty much nothing on the 60' (when the RPM would actually hook) and gained over half a tenth in the 1/8th.

Why were my results so different? The key was the converter. His stalls at 3700 and mine stalls at 4400. The RPM intake makes more torque below the torque peak, but less above the torque peak (header size works in a similar manner) and my stall kept me above torque peak virtually the entire run so I benefited from the extra power above torque peak even though I only turn it 6200. If my converter were tighter I would probably run quicker with a dual plane.

Disclaimer- this is only my personal first hand experience and doesn't reflect the performance gains you may see. :D graemlins/beers.gif

Greg O
Thanks for the intake swap track times on the 406s, thats good info.
Thats the kinda testing we need to see more of. graemlins/thumbsup.gif


Brian
The 10.70@122 is impressive, but it is a bracket car or a stocker, thats got years
of track time, I'm sure, so its an efficient car, unlike most street/strip rides.
So one could say it ETs well for its mph, or its mph is weak for its ET. (no disrespect)
Sounds like the 69 is makin just around 500hp to go 122mph.
Not big power for a 350, especially if you throw a bunch of cam at it.
I like to shoot for big mph and then work on gettin the car to be efficient, and try to
get the ET to match the mph. But its all in what you like, a good et or good mph,
I like the mph because it shows your engine is makin good power.
Also Brian, has the guy tried a good single plane? I'd love to see the results.
If he hasnt then you cant really say the RPM is the best intake for it, although
it may be. But it could be something that is staring to hold him back (choke the engine)
kinda like Eds 1 3/4" headers, his ride would definitely go quicker/faster with 1 7/8" or 2",
so the same scenario could be happening to the 10.70car - just an example.

ed's car would slow down with 2" headers. Check out what A/SA cars are using as far as primary tube diameter goes.
1-7/8" might pick the car up slightly, but not enough to make it worth the money.

The 69 is a bracket car, no special machine work or over the top drivetrain equipment.

More then likely the car is turning 123-124 mph now, last i raced with larry he was "breaking in" what was the new motor.

Speaking of MPH:

You'd be surprised at what doesnt "choke" a motor, my fellow bracket racer Rick has a 14:1 solid roller cammed aluminum headed motor in a 3050lbs 86' Camaro (a former BSE car) that is turning a best (So far) of a best 10.26 @ 133 mph with a 750 double pumper with nothing more then the choke horn milled off.
Also has 1-3/4" hooker super comp headers.

www.davemilcarek.net/042504/pages/4-25-3D%20077.htm (http://www.davemilcarek.net/042504/pages/4-25-3D%20077.htm)

Bryan,

Looks like Rick has dropped quite a bit in ET with the new combo (high 10's to low 10's if I remember correctly ~ 100 additional HP).

At 3050 lbs though, I would think a 14:1, solid rollered, aluminum headed, 355 SBC would be a bit quicker. What kind of gear/tire? Cam specs? type of intake? type of heads?