If it has not yet been said, I think the best person to restore this car is someone that money is of no object. that way they don't have to worry about it fitting into a 28k restoration budget. So that way whoever builds this car can conserve what is truly a piece of automoblie history! I just cant believe someone never thought when looking at a vin # 00001 they might need to find a different car to drag race with?

This car doesn't deserve a high dollar restoration, because there's really not a lot left to preserve, unfortunately. You cannot preserve what no longer exists. The little differences that would normally be present on a first run car are forever lost, hacked away to make a race car. The car is really just a hollow shell with no floors, or even frame rails. The only real value of the car is on that intact 00001 vin tag. I agree though, what an incredible blunder to cut THIS car up to make a racer, but then again...that may be why it survived, It could have been junked or parted out like loads of other 6cyl base coupes.

Mike,
U make very good points.

How much effort is put into restoring famous old race cars that dont have much metal left? The topic of a certain recent race car restoration as discussed to death a few years back. When the famous race car was raced with leaf springs and slapper bars and a stock chassis,and turns up with a tube frame front to back,almost no firewall at all,fiberglass everything and has been hacked to look like a car from a whole different year,it is obvious that there is not much original DNA left. If that isnt bad enough,I know of one famous non chevy race car that was supposedly restored and got big big money when sold,yet a handful of people watched a racer get killed in the car and the car get crushed back in the early 70's. Where the heck did that one come from? Value is in the eye of the beholder. I wouldnt pay 7 digits for that car no matter how it was restored,but to a guy with a few billion burning a hole in hos pocket,it could be just another million dollar trinket for his collection.

That is true, especially in the Ferrari and Bugatti worlds. Entire cars rebuilt around almost nothing of the original but nameplates and serial numbers...And that's why I knew this car would ultimately sell. I'd love to have been able to buy it. But I would have rebuilt most of it myself, rather than spending a ton on it. Still, it has been an interesting car to follow.:thumbsup:

There is no way i would pay 500k or 1mill on a car, not just because i would have to work for 2 life times to pay for it but because its out of reach for my finances. However, as stated by rich above, anyone who had a billion dollars would be able to buy a million dollar car and wouldnt even notice the money gone. Everyone has played the "what if i won the lottery" game. Weve said everything we would do. Now play that game with a 200 million dollar jack pot. Your bills are paid, your debit free, kids collage is paid for. And there in a museam for sale sits 00001. No expense spaired, so nice barrett jackson wouldnt want the wheels roling on the pavement. Only $675,000. Sure it would be way cooler if it had all original metal. But still, its number 1. You love camaros and your filthy rich, are u gonna buy it???

Nope, I'm spending my money on something I can drive, not something that would sit in my living room. Doesn't matter if I had Bill Gates money, or a measley 200 million. I'm thinking bugatti, Ferrari, McClaren, etc.

Nope, I'm spending my money on something I can drive, not something that would sit in my living room. Doesn't matter if I had Bill Gates money, or a measley 200 million. I'm thinking bugatti, Ferrari, McClaren, etc.

If we're going to dream. Can I please have a Lamborghini REVENTON? :yes:

There is no way i would pay 500k or 1mill on a car, not just because i would have to work for 2 life times to pay for it but because its out of reach for my finances. However, as stated by rich above, anyone who had a billion dollars would be able to buy a million dollar car and wouldnt even notice the money gone. Everyone has played the "what if i won the lottery" game. Weve said everything we would do. Now play that game with a 200 million dollar jack pot. Your bills are paid, your debit free, kids collage is paid for. And there in a museam for sale sits 00001. No expense spaired, so nice barrett jackson wouldnt want the wheels roling on the pavement. Only $675,000. Sure it would be way cooler if it had all original metal. But still, its number 1. You love camaros and your filthy rich, are u gonna buy it???
Nope. Not gonna buy it. A person with that kind of money to spend isn't going to want something with so little original DNA left. When you have more money your standards get higher not lower.

Thats why when a car like this is "discovered" it needs to stay on the down low until it gets sorted out. The cats out of the bag on this one:) A smart investor would have taken this car,replaced all the chopped out metal with date code correct donor metal with every stamp and wrinkle correct,then threw it out in the back yard for a while and let it patina,then bring it inside take pictures of the "all original metal" #1 camaro that was found in it's unmolested state,just waiting to be restored. I would have never let a photo of the car cut up like that see the light of day. I would have burned and shredded every single one,and paid all previous owners off to say that the car was an unmolested driver when they owned it:)

100K for the car+ 100K each for approximatly 3 previous owners+ 150K to restore it the right way=550K
1.5Mill price over the auction block -550K =Almost a $1 Mil in my pocket:)

.....then through it out in the back yard for a while and let it patina......

Man....thats bad *** funny and sneaky.....I like the way you think.:D
Any chance you own a used car lot???? :yes:
Hell....might be able to have the three previous owners whacked for $30k for another cool $270k in the pocket....just sayin'

I talked to someone who actually saw this car up close and in person. He says it is worse than the photos we have seen. The chop job that was done when it was turned into a race car was terrible.

I talked to someone who actually saw this car up close and in person. He says it is worse than the photos we have seen. The chop job that was done when it was turned into a race car was terrible.

Yes it is a backyard/shade tree racecar build thats for sure.

I talked to someone who actually saw this car up close and in person. He says it is worse than the photos we have seen. The chop job that was done when it was turned into a race car was terrible.


They usually are. Even the best of race cars back then were hacked apart with a cutting torch and sledge hammer before the "work" started. All that I would save off theis car is about 1 square foot of the door jam with the VIN attached and then weld a new car around it.

They usually are. Even the best of race cars back then were hacked apart with a cutting torch and sledge hammer before the "work" started. All that I would save off theis car is about 1 square foot of the door jam with the VIN attached and then weld a new car around it.
According to the guy who saw the car that is exactly what you will have to do. Not only did they take out the dash they removed all of the support structure behind the dash. Same thing with the back seat. They removed the seat, the package tray and all of the support structure as well. The deck lid and the doors were hacked to save weight. The floor is full of huge holes and the roll cage is welded to what is left of the floor. So your statement is dead right. You will be saving the VIN tag and everything else is toast.

According to the guy who saw the car that is exactly what you will have to do. Not only did they take out the dash they removed all of the support structure behind the dash. Same thing with the back seat. They removed the seat, the package tray and all of the support structure as well. The deck lid and the doors were hacked to save weight. The floor is full of huge holes and the roll cage is welded to what is left of the floor. So your statement is dead right. You will be saving the VIN tag and everything else is toast.


This is pretty much all that is left of lots of old race cars. That doesnt stop guys from restoring old COPO cars or old famous race cars back to original glory even when there isnt even a VIN number left.

This is pretty much all that is left of lots of old race cars. That doesnt stop guys from restoring old COPO cars or old famous race cars back to original glory even when there isnt even a VIN number left.
The difference is when you restore a COPO or a famous race car despite the VIN tag you still have a famous race car or a COPO. In this case once you have it restored all you have is the VIN tag. Does anyone know the buyer? I hope it is someone with deep pockets and talent. They are going to need both.

I was refering to the fact that a lot of old race cars have nearly no original metal left and still seem to go for top dollar when restored. I dont want to mention names anymore,but one car got restored and sold for good money as a full stock chassis slapper bar suspention famous ex race car,but from the time it was made famous back in the early 70's as a complete regular bodied race car to the time it was discovered,the car had a full tube chassis with pinto front end ect installed under it,the 1/4's were hacked until it looked like a car that was 10 years newer,it had a fiberglass nose and doors on it,almost all of the firewall,floor pan,inner structure of the body ect was gone. When the car was "restored" it came out of the shop with a full stock floor pan,frame rails,interior,lights,and had bee made back into the correct year body.

There was a ZL-1 that was recently restored that was also a firewall back chassis car. The owner used a donor body from the toe boards back underneath with the rear 1/4's,inner structure,rockers ect from the donor car,and just welded the tail panel to the back of the donor body,and grafted it to the roof skin and firewall of the ZL-1. The original engine,trans,rear,and all the special COPO parts were long gone,and were replaced with a mix of parts from other cars. Is iit still a real ZL-1?

Both the car I am mentioning were FAR worse then the car in the OP.

I was refering to the fact that a lot of old race cars have nearly no original metal left and still seem to go for top dollar when restored. I dont want to mention names anymore,but one car got restored and sold for good money as a full stock chassis slapper bar suspention famous ex race car,but from the time it was made famous back in the early 70's as a complete regular bodied race car to the time it was discovered,the car had a full tube chassis with pinto front end ect installed under it,the 1/4's were hacked until it looked like a car that was 10 years newer,it had a fiberglass nose and doors on it,almost all of the firewall,floor pan,inner structure of the body ect was gone. When the car was "restored" it came out of the shop with a full stock floor pan,frame rails,interior,lights,and had bee made back into the correct year body.

There was a ZL-1 that was recently restored that was also a firewall back chassis car. The owner used a donor body from the toe boards back underneath with the rear 1/4's,inner structure,rockers ect from the donor car,and just welded the tail panel to the back of the donor body,and grafted it to the roof skin and firewall of the ZL-1. The original engine,trans,rear,and all the special COPO parts were long gone,and were replaced with a mix of parts from other cars. Is iit still a real ZL-1?

Both the car I am mentioning were FAR worse then the car in the OP.
I would not want a car that was that far gone then "restored". In my mind you have made a "copy" of the original and that is all. Question is, how much can be missing and it still be considered the original car once it is restored. I can't answer that question. I guess you know it when you see it.

Imagine a car like the one in my link was believed to have started life as a Yenko 427 car or Grumpy's 68 Nova,and was discovered looking just like the car in this listing and then was "restored back to showroom condition with stock floors/frame ect. Is this really still a car in the traditional sense?This is how cut up some "restored" old stock type race cars and super cars were when they were discovered. At what point can somebody consider the car gone? Yes this is a car,and yes maybe it used to be something famous,but can it ever be returned to that state? BTW,this car isnt claiming to be anything,I am just using it to provide a picture of a really cut up steel body car.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1970-Chevy-Nova-588-CU-Big-Block-Tube-Chassis-Car-/250720608194?pt=Race_Cars_Not_Street_Legal_&hash=item3a601cdfc2

Imagine a car like the one in my link was believed to have started life as a Yenko 427 car or Grumpy's 68 Nova,and was discovered looking just like the car in this listing and then was "restored back to showroom condition with stock floors/frame ect. Is this really still a car in the traditional sense?This is how cut up some "restored" old stock type race cars and super cars were when they were discovered. At what point can somebody consider the car gone? Yes this is a car,and yes maybe it used to be something famous,but can it ever be returned to that state? BTW,this car isnt claiming to be anything,I am just using it to provide a picture of a really cut up steel body car.

http://rover.ebay.com/ar/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?mpt=1980731455&adtype=1&size=1x1&type=3&campid=5336121784&toolid=10001 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1970-Chevy-Nova-588-CU-Big-Block-Tube-Chassis-Car-/250720608194?pt=Race_Cars_Not_Street_Legal_&hash=item3a601cdfc2 Tough question to answer but at least the Nova was turned into a nice race car. Ole #1 looks like it was cut up by a drunken teenager with a chain saw. I would take the Nova and add its heritage as much as possible but leave it a race car. Ole #1 isn't even a good race car.

You could fix up the Camaro to be a nicer race car. Since most race cars have nothing but the very outermost layer of sheet metal left from the real body,it wouldnt be hard to make all the cuts clean,add in some donor metal to smooth out the rough edges,maybe a donor subframe that isnt hacked up,donor feirewall ect.

Right now I know where Joe Satmary's pro stock Camaro is. It was originally believed to be Grumpy's 70 Camaro. Both cars were owned by Richie Zul. In it's current start the car looks like an 81 Camaro,has a tube shassis and has been rebackhalfed within the last 15 years. The original firewall is gone and the engine moved back a foot at least. I belive that Joe Satmary originally built the car into a tube chassis car,but it has been very hacked over the years. I told the owner I would like to buy the car if he ever wants to sell it,but at best I could restore the car back to the old style tube car that Joe raced it as. If this car turns out to have started life as the original slapper bar pro stocker that he started out in Pro Stock with I doubt I ever bring it back to that state. Some restorers would go thru all the effort,but to me it is nothing more then the roof skin and outer rockers from a famous old race car. To me it isnt much more then owning the valve covers and tail lights out of a famous old car,its just parts now.

Now back to the OP,this car would be a huge job to tackle,and how much #1 is left is open to interpetation.

Which really hints at the bigger problem. It's never really been defined in collector car circles, how much (or how little) can be left before a car loses its identity? Could you still call this car 00001 if it was just the left side door jam and vin tag? Ultimately its all just sheetmetal, and can be replaced, totalled, replaced again...as long as the all important tiny metal tag or stamping, and docs of some sort remain. It starts to sound like the story of George Washington's axe.

Aren't we done beating this car to death yet. Lets summarize.

Its an interesting car from a purely historical standpoint, but its too far gone.

No one is going to pay big bucks for the car, and then spend even more big bucks for an "ACCURATE" restoration job (which is the only way it would ever be worth anything in the future), to be left with a 6 cylinder coupe.

There that pretty much says it all.

Aren't we done beating this car to death yet. Lets summarize.

Its an interesting car from a purely historical standpoint, but its too far gone.

No one is going to pay big bucks for the car, and then spend even more big bucks for an "ACCURATE" restoration job (which is the only way it would ever be worth anything in the future), to be left with a 6 cylinder coupe.

There that pretty much says it all.

Someone DID buy it, however. And it did make for an interesting discussion at least. Guess time will tell.

Someone DID buy it, however. And it did make for an interesting discussion at least. Guess time will tell.
When the car reappears once the new owner has restored it this thread will start again.

When the car reappears once the new owner has restored it this thread will start again.

I doubt this will be anytime soon. We may see it again in a few years.

That one is easy to restore. Basically comb the net for the very earliest dated 67 Camaro for sale. Buy it. Cut the roof skin,door jamb and remains of the firewall and any other un butchered parts off this car and weld them onto the dnor body,send the finished product out to be blasted/dipped and refinished in the correct trim/paint and the body is done. It doesnt even pay to buy parts. Just buy a whole car and cut the good parts off this car. restamp an early date code 6 banger(easy to find since you can use one from a Nova,big car,ect). A certain very famous race car was probably restored this way.

That one is easy to restore. Basically comb the net for the very earliest dated 67 Camaro for sale. Buy it. Cut the roof skin,door jamb and remains of the firewall and any other un butchered parts off this car and weld them onto the dnor body,send the finished product out to be blasted/dipped and refinished in the correct trim/paint and the body is done. It doesnt even pay to buy parts. Just buy a whole car and cut the good parts off this car. restamp an early date code 6 banger(easy to find since you can use one from a Nova,big car,ect). A certain very famous race car was probably restored this way.

Wouldn't it be easier to just cut all the existing sheet metal off around #00001's vin tag, build a jig to hold the old vin tag in place, cut the vin tag off the pristine '67 donor camaro, and then drop the donor body down onto the #00001 vin tag? ;)

I bet someone's reading and taking notes....

Wouldn't it be easier to just cut all the existing sheet metal off around #00001's vin tag, build a jig to hold the old vin tag in place, cut the vin tag off the pristine '67 donor camaro, and then drop the donor body down onto the #00001 vin tag? ;)
Regardless of what they say they did to restore it I bet that is what they do. Much easier and you could not prove they were lying. I do think it will be a while until it resurfaces. The friend of mine who actually saw the car had it up on his lift and took pictures of everything.

I know too much too!

Wouldn't it be easier to just cut all the existing sheet metal off around #00001's vin tag, build a jig to hold the old vin tag in place, cut the vin tag off the pristine '67 donor camaro, and then drop the donor body down onto the #00001 vin tag? ;)


I am giving them the benefit of the doubt that they will at least try and save all the remaining metal possible. You could save the 1/4
s by buying lower skins and trimming patches to fix the wheel openings on the originals,save the roof skin,tail panel,outer rockers,door jams ect. My point is that if I were doing it I wouldnt seperate the floor from the inner rockers or inner 1/4 structure of the donor car,but rather just seperate all the useable pieces of the real #1 and apply them to the donor. Basically I would cut off the 1/4's carefully,restore them to be like new replacement 1/4's then install them on the donor car. Same goes for the roof skin,tail panel ect.

A car like the real #1 isnt a good candidate for a muscle car metal toe board to tail lights floor assembly,and repop inner 1/4 structure. It deserves real date code correct donor steel. A donor car with the born with fenders'doors,trunklid,front subframe ect would be about as good as it gets for this car.

I bet someone's reading and taking notes....


Lol.....:yes:

Boy! oh Boy some of you guys are just plain MEAN!!! you act like a jilted ex-girlfriend cutting this car down. I think its neat to find the number one car and the fact that is was a race car is even better!! I would restore it back to its race car heritage, forget about being a 6-cylinder I would pay more for a restored number 1 race car than a restored # 1 6 banger

It sold for alot more than anybody thought it would.

It sold for alot more than anybody thought it would.

Wonder if he got the 75K buy it now...

Wonder if he got the 75K buy it now...

My bet is that it didn't even get close to the buy now price.

It sold for alot more than anybody thought it would.
So how much? It wouldn't have to sell for very much to be more than I thought it would bring.

The car will soon be in the GM Heritage Museum.

The car will soon be in the GM Heritage Museum.

Really? Did GM buy it?

I think the guy that bought it was representing GM. I am not sure if he works full time for GM or not, or what his position is. He stated the car would be going to the GM Heritage Museum. But, I heard, GMHM doesn't normally buy cars.

GM Heritage used to buy lots of cars but I think that ended when they filed Bankruptcy. I doubt if they bought it.

GM Heritage used to buy lots of cars but I think that ended when they filed Bankruptcy. I doubt if they bought it.

It will be in that museum soon.

All things considered...that's the best place for it. But i'd love to know; 1.The purchase price and 2.The final tally for the restoration!

It will be in that museum soon.


Soon? A proper resto of that car will take at least 1,500 hours let alone finding the correct dated stuff. KevinK should know if it was bought or not. They bought his '67 Pacer a few years back and he still keeps in touch with folks there.

Soon? A proper resto of that car will take at least 1,500 hours let alone finding the correct dated stuff. KevinK should know if it was bought or not. They bought his '67 Pacer a few years back and he still keeps in touch with folks there.
You are right. There won't be anything "soon" about this car. IF GM has it that is a good place for it.

Wow GM will be displaying a Dynacorn body ?

Let's recap some of the information that has been presented regarding this car: GM might have bought this car for their museum but maybe not because we don't know if the guy who bought it works for them or not and GM usually doesn't buy cars. The car is worth a million, but it wouldn't get past 35k on ebay twice but there are firm 100k offers for it from some unidentified mystery buyers but they backed out for financial reasons. The owner found the original motor and trans, well maybe, because it was never mentioned when it was for sale. It is missing ALL verifying markings, hardware, sheetmetal, frame, etc. that would support that it is #1 except for the VIN tag and it is cut up with a cutting torch like swiss cheese but there is no doubt that it is #1 and it will not be a re-body when/if it is restored. The owner claimed he had a quote from a reputable restoration shop for 28k to restore the car to its former glory (no one seemed to buy that story). And the list goes on and on. I wouldn't touch this thing if I had money to burn.

GM Heritage Collection has about 800 cars and they did buy some from private partys.

That would be a good place for the vin #1 Camaro to retire.
Although there is not much left to it, at least what is left of the car can be used to put together a restored car for display.

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/03/15/general-motors-heritage-collection-an-amazing-collection-few-w/

Let's recap some of the information that has been presented regarding this car: GM might have bought this car for their museum but maybe not because we don't know if the guy who bought it works for them or not and GM usually doesn't buy cars. The car is worth a million, but it wouldn't get past 35k on ebay twice but there are firm 100k offers for it from some unidentified mystery buyers but they backed out for financial reasons. The owner found the original motor and trans, well maybe, because it was never mentioned when it was for sale. It is missing ALL verifying markings, hardware, sheetmetal, frame, etc. that would support that it is #1 except for the VIN tag and it is cut up with a cutting torch like swiss cheese but there is no doubt that it is #1 and it will not be a re-body when/if it is restored. The owner claimed he had a quote from a reputable restoration shop for 28k to restore the car to its former glory (no one seemed to buy that story). And the list goes on and on. I wouldn't touch this thing if I had money to burn.

http://ui31.gamespot.com/1214/deadhorsebeat_4.gif

The owner never said anything about 28k resto, for the record. "Soon" as I used it, meant 2-3 years, just a guess. I am not sure if it's my place to say what it sold for. The buyer and seller made a deal. The buyer left a deposit for the car, verfied it, then delivered the remaining monies, and the deal was done. One thing that is funny is, after a deal is done, how many other parties would have given more etc. etc. etc. It's all baloney until somebody shows up with the money.

I am not sure if it's my place to say what it sold for.

Sure you can.
We are your Team Camaro brethren.
We're family. :)

Sure you can.
We are your Team Camaro brethren.
We're family. :)
yea we'll keep it a secret:thumbsup:

http://ui31.gamespot.com/1214/deadhorsebeat_4.gif
I think that old horse is about dead.

Where do you find the beating a dead horse?? Thats awsome!!!

http://ui31.gamespot.com/1214/deadhorsebeat_4.gif http://ui31.gamespot.com/1214/deadhorsebeat_4.gif http://ui31.gamespot.com/1214/deadhorsebeat_4.gif



:D:D:D

OK pool some cash to get me a posi rear and we will talk! I will give out all the info, even the other offers etc! It's good stuff!

Where do you find the beating a dead horse?? Thats awsome!!!

http://ui31.gamespot.com/1214/deadhorsebeat_4.gif

OK pool some cash to get me a posi rear and we will talk! I will give out all the info, even the other offers etc! It's good stuff!

Well allllright - the horse hasn't kicked the bucket yet !

...and what ever happened?? Did this car resurface? What about 1967 car number 2 or 3 or 4 or 5?