This car appears to have been recently found.
Even if the rest of the car is as rusty as the door jamb, what would it be worth?

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m46/JamesESCA/123377N100001.jpg

wow .. need more pics !!!!!! and HOW SAD that the very FIRST camaro to be made. Remember this is Chevys answer to the Mustang you would of think they would of made a V8 Camaro as the VERY FIRST one !!

I wanna say that car is priceless but then again everything has a price !!!!!!

tag alone would be a few g's

Im crying in my coffee right now over the fact the first camaro produced was a 6 banger. :(

Ist cars of a new model off the assembly line are almost always a very base car with very few if any options. More complex cars (more options and features) come later as the lines get the kinks worked out.

any more info or pictures on the car?

Ist cars of a new model off the assembly line are almost always a very base car with very few if any options. More complex cars (more options and features) come later as the lines get the kinks worked out.

Ah yes, valid point. Which makes me think..if that car is a 6 cyl. with no options.... that would actually be kind of cool. Certainly unique beyond the fact that its the first one produced. More pics would be great.

didn't someone post a similar car thinking it was the oldest one so far .. it was a white one I believe ... it was also a plane jane and 6 banger to boot with hub caps but it ended in 000014 or something. Someone throw me a bone to make me think Im not going crazy or had a weird dreamn or something.

Is it really the first Camaro or is it the first Camaro built at that plant? I thought each plant started each year at 0001 so maybe it's really not the first one. I also thought I read over at CRG that sometimes cars did not come down in the line sequentially based on options etc. So there might have been another one that was first but had a higher sequence number.

The low number is very cool however. Doubt it would bring the money that Rick Hendrick paid for the first two of the new ones but very cool nonetheless. Should definitely be worth more than your standard 6 cyl car though.

This car appears to have been recently found.
Even if the rest of the car is as rusty as the door jamb, what would it be worth?

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m46/JamesESCA/123377N100001.jpg So stop teasing us and tell us where you got the picture and what other info there is about this car.

So stop teasing us and tell us where you got the picture and what other info there is about this car.
Sorry guys, it's not my find and thats all I know so far.
I will invite the current owner over to Team Camaro so we can all find out more.

So what do you think it might sell for once fully restored?
Here is the LA built Fisher body #001 VIN #16 that sold at Barrett Jackson for 75K+, I am thinking this one would be worth more (fully restored).

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/application/onlinesubmission/lotdetails.aspx?aid=221&ln=1029&pop=0&it=1

Here is the LA built Fisher body #001 VIN #16 that sold at Barrett Jackson for 75K+, I am thinking this one would be worth more (fully restored).

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/application/onlinesubmission/lotdetails.aspx?aid=221&ln=1029&pop=0&it=1

thats the one I said in the post above .. so I was off by 2 cars .. give me some credit .. lol

Oh man I was curious to see what other replies have been made since mine earlier today just to see that NONE have been posted since.

WOW you would think that a 67 car #00001 would be the talk of the town here, but obviously its not. I bet if was 1969 camaro #000001 it would probably have 69 replies by now. oh well.

Rob, it was a nice weekend :) The poster wanted to know what it is worth now. That all depends on what is still there and how rusty the whole car is. We dont have enough info to really make the price. There would be a big difference between a rusty car, but everything was there, vs a rusty shell. having the born with drivetrain will also effect price a lot since it is the first Camaro. Then once we have the that info, we can tack on the WOW factor for it being 0001 to our guesses :D

That car is probably extremely rotted out or we would probably see more pictures. Having said that, it would be an incredible car to have and one that GM should have in it's Heritage Center. Too bad they have no money or time to pursue such a car.

Its not that bad, it was turned into a drag car sometime in the past, it has been tubbed, has a flip front end on it, full roll cage, etc. Not much left of it that original except the rear tub and tags.

Car was originally gold according to the cowl tag, and is white now with a pair or rally stripes on the rear deck, and typical drag race car grpahics on the front and sides.

Its not that bad, it was turned into a drag car sometime in the past, it has been tubbed, has a flip front end on it, full roll cage, etc. Not much left of it that original except the rear tub and tags..


http://www.raptorforum.com/forums/images/smilies/cry.gif

Its not that bad, it was turned into a drag car sometime in the past, it has been tubbed, has a flip front end on it, full roll cage, etc. Not much left of it that original except the rear tub and tags.

Car was originally gold according to the cowl tag, and is white now with a pair or rally stripes on the rear deck, and typical drag race car graphics on the front and sides.
Now there's a dilemma restore it original or keep it in it's race trim. Much depends on it's racing history but the fact that it's born with driveline is long gone would have to be a factor also. If I had the funds to have one of the local RTE or Pro Stock cars from the early 70's I would keep it in it's race trim.

Jeff

Its not that bad, it was turned into a drag car sometime in the past, it has been tubbed, has a flip front end on it, full roll cage, etc. Not much left of it that original except the rear tub and tags.

Car was originally gold according to the cowl tag, and is white now with a pair or rally stripes on the rear deck, and typical drag race car grpahics on the front and sides.

NO !! poor car. when my friend wanted to buy my 71 and it was in perfect shape he told me he was gonna to tub it and roll cage it ... I told him "No im sorry im not going to sell it to you now" . and I didn't

Some of the first ads in late 1966 were for the Hugger a plain Jane 6 banger with bumble bee stripe.
9948

67for/me

Here is that other car you guys were talking about. A low vin plane jane. Sold At Barrett Jackson.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2007/01/oldestcamaro---1_450.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.autoblog.com/2007/01/19/2007-barrett-jackson-oldest-production-camaro/&usg=__AXvQJbNA-7MfvWMKxFPUHqVjgX0=&h=313&w=450&sz=133&hl=en&start=9&tbnid=3RkqB2lvHHKDAM:&tbnh=88&tbnw=127&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dermine%2Bwhite%2Bcamaro%26gbv%3D2%26h l%3Den

67for/me

This is a VERY interesting and valuable car. Please make sure your friend joins us here... my $.02 would be that if he is looking to sell the car he would probably be better off selling it "as is" instead of starting a "flip this car" restoration. He won't have to spend time explaining that the drivetrian is not original etc. etc. I assume that because this thread was started here the goal is to sell... Just sell it for what it is... Whoever purchases the car will then have the money to give this camaro the treatment it deserves.

Some of the first ads in late 1966 were for the Hugger a plain Jane 6 banger with bumble bee stripe.
9948

67for/me

They must have the trunk loaded with sand bags...

This is a VERY interesting and valuable car. Please make sure your friend joins us here... my $.02 would be that if he is looking to sell the car he would probably be better off selling it "as is" instead of starting a "flip this car" restoration.

Just to be perfectly clear, I don't know the owner or what his intentions are. He has not posted any more information, perhaps he has been inundated by the collector car community or he is just busy.

I posted because I also believe this to be a "VERY interesting and valuable car".

No one, so far, has thrown out a number of what this car might be worth when fully restored.

If a 1 of 1 1968 Z/28 Convertible is worth more than $1,000,000 and a #16 built Plain Jane is worth $75,000 Then what is the very first production of a legendary car worth, even as a 6 cylinder coupe?

This car deserves to sit in a museum some place, I think it's worth low 6 figures, in the $150,000 range. What do you think?

OK, imagine me holding my breath looking at that VIN... I met a lady a week ago who claims to have purchased the first Camaro out of the Van Nuys plant. I was doubting her at first but as she kept talking about her husband worked there, and they came out and interviewed her for the news, I believed her. Wow, I would love for this car to be a Van Nuys car. that would have been hers. Also, it doesn't matter that it's a 6 cyl. I can't even imagine what this car is worth if it's legit.

What is the lowest production number of a 68 or 69 camaro that anyone knows of?

What is the lowest production number of a 68 or 69 camaro that anyone knows of?

If I understand it correctly, my 68 is LOS 00055, built 5th week Aug 1967, convertible also.

James dug that up in "HwyStarJoe's" Back Yard - LOL

I would think that the history is part of that car, and a serious collector (ok we are all serious :D) would give a large sum just as it sits. If it were mine I would not sell.

I've been wondering if we were going to hear some more about old #1?

"it better be worth 6 figures or we are going underground with it for another decade"

Does anyone have a 68 lower than #55? How about a low number 69? I am curious with the BJ auction of thunderbird #1 that brought so much.

Get it out of the weather for starters. Lets us know, I want it.

Does anyone have a 68 lower than #55? How about a low number 69? I am curious with the BJ auction of thunderbird #1 that brought so much.

Here is a low number 69.. It was NOR 500032. The car was at PPG Nationals in Columbus Ohio this year. I could not get a good picture of the VIN due to shadows. I talked to the owner and he did not realize it was such an early production car.


http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a130/z282nv/2009GoodguysPPGNationals015.jpg

That car is probably extremely rotted out or we would probably see more pictures. Having said that, it would be an incredible car to have and one that GM should have in it's Heritage Center. Too bad they have no money or time to pursue such a car.


The Car is not rusted out. Has a few pinholes in the quarters and some surface rust. Rockers are in great shape! No motor or tranny, I am trying to find the original owner to see if they have the parts!!!!!!!!! Car is in great shape for its age!!!!!!!!!

JS

The Car is not rusted out. Has a few pinholes in the quarters and some surface rust. Rockers are in great shape! No motor or tranny, I am trying to find the original owner to see if they have the parts!!!!!!!!! Car is in great shape for its age!!!!!!!!!

JS
Great!

I see this is your first post, so welcome to Team Camaro.

Please tell us more about your car.

WOW!!!...great thread!!....welcome to team camaro, we are all waiting for more information. this is really neat stuff!!!!

Back in April MarkC hinted around that he had info on this car too and then clammed up. Now "JS" shows up with a couple short sentences and nothing more and has no profile & lists his location as "north America" Come on guys. If it's a big secret then stop teasing us & playing games and tell us about the car, post pics, etc. Is this whole thread nothing more than the drumroll to get the crowd interested so it can pop up on a BJ auction or what ?

The Car is not rusted out. Has a few pinholes in the quarters and some surface rust. Rockers are in great shape! No motor or tranny, I am trying to find the original owner to see if they have the parts!!!!!!!!! Car is in great shape for its age!!!!!!!!!

JS


Well that's great! Let's see those pics!!!

Back in April MarkC hinted around that he had info on this car too and then clammed up. Now "JS" shows up with a couple short sentences and nothing more and has no profile & lists his location as "north America" Come on guys. If it's a big secret then stop teasing us & playing games and tell us about the car, post pics, etc. Is this whole thread nothing more than the drumroll to get the crowd interested so it can pop up on a BJ auction or what ?


I'd like to see pics of the car in the condition it was in when the door jam pic was taken. Why no pics of the rest of the body, especially since it's apparently in "great shape for it's age".

X2 :popcorn:

if pics of this car actually shows up, beer on me. I think I posted on a thread like this about a lady I met. I was sitting on the patio of a Mexican restaurant and noticed she was really looking at my car. We struck up a conversation; she (and others she was with) claims they got the first Camaro from the Van Nuys plant. She was very believable because she knew a lot about the plant. I think she said the car was white. She says she and her husband got their picture in the paper and what-not. she actually got a little misty eyed talking about that car.

On the same subject, maybe someone can help me understand something. Car number 00031 showed on ebay recently with a build date of 09B an mine, which is 00068 has a build date of 08A, both Norwood cars. I PMed Kurt on that and haven't had an answer yet.

by the way, here is the ebay link for car 00031
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1st-PRODUCTION-Camaro-Convertible-EVER-1967-Chevrolet_W0QQitemZ320397575413QQcmdZViewItemQQptZ US_Cars_Trucks?hash=item4a992f04f5&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245

http://dvdtalk.com/forum/images/smilies/worthless.gif

I'm guessing there is no car.

There was an 1968 magazine article on new Corvettes where they showed the new cars off the line. The engineers took these cars on a big road trip to test quality and de-bug the cars. There was about 10 of them and they had a bunch of equipment in the pass side some of it looked to be bolted on to the dash. They took these cars all over the country through hot/cold, hi/low elevation etc. They looked like complete production cars not test mules but I don't know if these cars had vin. no. and trim tags.

My point is that I wonder if the first cars off the line were ever sold to the public or were they used as engineering fleet cars? I have read that engineering had a large fleet of cars but not sure if these cars all had vin. no and trim tags like a production car.

The first 1970 Camaro is said to have been found at Smokey Yunick's shop.
Here is a post on it........

"I am the owner of the first 1970 Camaro to be produced at the Norwood plant (Nov. 69). I bought the car years ago from Smokey Yunick. The VIN is: 123870N500001 and yes I know that is a six cylinder car. However, my car was sent immediately to the GM proving Grounds (Chevrolet Engineering) and became a test bed for many of the racing options. It was then sent to Smokey Yunick and he was instructed to run tests on all of the various components for homologation of 70 and 71 racecars. The FIA required that all sedan-based racecars to be eligible for FIA Groups I and II racing have the major components be certified as "production" items of Service replacement item available "over the counter"
I am interested in getting any further information on this and other similar cars."

There is a car, I have pictures of it, it's VIN and cowl tag but they were not sent directly to me by the owner so I'm not going to post them unless they say its OK. It was a 6cylider originally. The car is/was at the time a strip car painted white with blue side panels, with a tilt front end, shortened rear axle with ladder bars going forward to the subframe. Its been tubbed to fit slicks (would guess they are probably 14 to 16" wide). No pictures of the interior, but it must have a cage in it. No motor, trans and cant tell if its a GM or Ford rear axle.

I don't even know where the car is, although the pictures make it look like its in a typical California/Arizona style subdivision.

Sounds like it needs inners, outers, full floor, full trunk and rails.

.I think my 67 was an early build..Is it the last 5 DIGITS or 6 for the production #..??

.I think my 67 was an early build..Is it the last 5 DIGITS or 6 for the production #..??

Tommy, speaking of numbers what does your screen name mean ?

666 Is the # on my car when I take it to the RACE TRACK...the " NUMBER OF THE BEAST "..!! and the legend part...well..?? thats an inside joke...

http://www.delvalracing.net/board/uploads/post-29-1256414014_thumb.jpg

The first 1970 Camaro is said to have been found at Smokey Yunick's shop.
Here is a post on it........

"I am the owner of the first 1970 Camaro to be produced at the Norwood plant (Nov. 69). I bought the car years ago from Smokey Yunick. The VIN is: 123870N500001 and yes I know that is a six cylinder car. However, my car was sent immediately to the GM proving Grounds (Chevrolet Engineering) and became a test bed for many of the racing options. It was then sent to Smokey Yunick and he was instructed to run tests on all of the various components for homologation of 70 and 71 racecars. The FIA required that all sedan-based racecars to be eligible for FIA Groups I and II racing have the major components be certified as "production" items of Service replacement item available "over the counter"
I am interested in getting any further information on this and other similar cars." I remember an old magazine article many years ago about the auction at Smokeys shop and if I remember correctly this car had a 302 in it at one time also. Smokeys auction turned up all kinds of super rare one off parts like factory smallblock tri-power intakes, etc. I wonder where that stuff is today.

Even if it is the first car produced and tagged at Norwood, without any of the original drivetrain, I fail to see how it is worth so much. Where is anyone going to find a date correct engine, trans and axle to restore it to anywhere near it's original build ? Sorry, but in it's current state, it doesn't excite me much or urge me to get a 2nd mortgage to purchase it.....:sad:

Good point Mitch.
( and welcome back to TC )

I think it still has high value. I can't imagine some big-time collector not wanting that car.

The value is in the tags, not what's left of that body. If another early build 6 cylinder car were located as a donor to restore it to near original condition, it could be worth a bunch. Or, as I suspect could happen, the tags will migrate to an already complete car. The unwillingness to post more pics and info to identify it as is now against the finished product only supports my suspicion. If everyone exclaims it's worth over 100k and there is interested buyers, then it becomes obvious that it is worth spending big money on a "restoration". Most other 6 cylinder cars won't return the investment.

You're going to have to ban him permanently. He came on a GTO forum I visit and spammed EVERY thread !!!:mad:

You're going to have to ban him permanently. He came on a GTO forum I visit and spammed EVERY thread !!!:mad: Who are you talking about ?

Who are you talking about ?
2 posts above...honzou...something. The quote button is gone, so I couldn't bring his post into mine. He's just here to advertise his crap. He's back over at the GTO forum again too....:sad:

Is this the same car that sold on Barrett Jackson recently for around 100k ? I watched reruns this week & there was a white 6 cylinder car that sold that was claimed to be serial number 000001 It looked to be freshly restored.

no, it is not

to put this into perspective,BJ just auctioned the lowest # 57 chevy on TV today.It was a sedan with a 6cylinder in restored condition{very nice} and got $150,000.Not many 6 cylinder 57 150's selling for that kind of scratch.So just because it is a stripper car doesnt men it wont go for big $$$.A rebody is kind of out of the question since the early build is what makes it so special,I am sure every date stamping on the entire body will be scrutinized to establish standards for the earliest build dates.I highly doubt somebody is going to want to have the earliest built Camaro and have body dates stamped in the nooks and crannies that are later then some other early cars even by a day or two.

I think thaat if somebody takes the time to restore this car it will sell for huge bucks at an auction.

So did anyone else see the one I'm talking about that just sold at BJ ? It was advertised as being serial number 1. I believe it was a low mileage car as well. If that's the case then one of these cars has to be a fake. Jim you seem pretty sure of your answer but you leave out details. What do you know you're not telling ?

no, that was a van nuys car

I did see the sale of that car. Both plants would have had a 001 car at the start of assembly.

Everybody wanted to see pics of it and didn't believe its real. Its on Ebay now. I have seen this car in person and can verify it. It is my brother-in-laws. I have sat in this car. The VIN was fully stamped and is very clear. The VIN has been verified by GM to be correct. The mysterious JS that posted back a couple of pages is the owner. He probably got busy and forgot about posting hear. His job keeps him very busy. The car looks better in person. The rust is surface rust and this car could be put back to original without too many problems. Here is the link to the Ebay page.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/First-Production-Camaro-Ever-Built-/330465188948?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item4cf1429c54

someone please save this CAR !!!

Funny this car was built 09B and my 00068 car is 08A. Frank.

funny this car was built 09b and my 00068 car is 08a. Frank.
lul

It is NOT the first Camaro built-it is the first to receive a VIN. That is how the ad reads. There were many pilot '67s built prior to this car and some had VINs assigned afterwards.

Funny this car was built 09B and my 00068 car is 08A. Frank.


Frank, your vin is 100068? what is your body number on trim tag?

lul

?

Frank, your vin is 100068? what is your body number on trim tag?

Yes, my VIN is 123377n100068. If someone can give me an e-mail address, I'll send him pics of the VIN and trim tag so they can post them. You'll notice that the clip that holds the wire harness just by the trim tag is different from anything I've seen before and the headliner bows are not retained by a plastic clip in the middle, a completely different arrangement. My body number, by the way, is 245. My car is a rustbucket needing a lot of metal work, have no idea if it's worth more because it's that early...slowly dying behind my house...too many projects going on...

http://rover.ebay.com/ar/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?mpt=12095083&adtype=1&size=1x1&type=3&campid=5336121784&toolid=10001 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/First-Production-Camaro-Ever-Built-/330465188948?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item4cf1429c54 (http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?type=3&campid=5336121784&toolid=10001&mpre=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Febaymotors%2FFirs t-Production-Camaro-Ever-Built-%2F330465188948%3Fpt%3DUS_Cars_Trucks%26hash%3Dite m4cf1429c54)

Here is the Ebay ad for that 00001 car

Since everyone wants Pictures here ya go


http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt75/bschevyc20/00001/vin.png

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt75/bschevyc20/00001/underaxle.png

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt75/bschevyc20/00001/TT.png

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt75/bschevyc20/00001/rearshot.png

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt75/bschevyc20/00001/rearquarter.png


http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt75/bschevyc20/00001/hoodup.png

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt75/bschevyc20/00001/frontquartershot.png

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt75/bschevyc20/00001/frontofaxle.png

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt75/bschevyc20/00001/fronthoodup.png

limits.....


http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt75/bschevyc20/00001/front1.png

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt75/bschevyc20/00001/backwindow.png

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt75/bschevyc20/00001/2hoodupfront.png

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt75/bschevyc20/00001/enginecomp.png

I hate to be both ignorant and stupid (and I do both well...) but how is this car worth anything more than a beat-up roller?

Sure - it has the first vin out of Norwood - but so what? There's nothing left on the car that's original. I could see if it had the born-with drive-train somewhere - perhaps I could see it if it had just the original motor - but to have nothing - not even interior - sounds like people are trying to add provenance where none is really deserved.

here are pictures of Frank's early Camaro vin and trim tag

How were the bodies stored after they were built? Must have been an extremely large facility/bin holding them. After looking at the body numbers from the 00001 car and Franks 00068 car it looks to have been a first come first serve when planted on the assembly line. Is this correct?

I don't think the condition of the car is that critical. It is the #1 car, and that is what somebody is buying. They will put 50k in it to make it right. If I owned it, I would sell it for top dollar, and buy a restored car and keep the change. When I am driving a Camaro I do not care what the VIN is. And if it's a restored 6 cylinder, I don't care to drive it! If this car were at least a SBC or especially a BBC car, I think the value would go up exponentially. That being said I can't imagine this car doen't bring 35-40k.

How were the bodies stored after they were built? Must have been an extremely large facility/bin holding them. After looking at the body numbers from the 00001 car and Franks 00068 car it looks to have been a first come first serve when planted on the assembly line. Is this correct?

Bodies were not stored. Pilot cars were completed and assigned to engineering, sales & marketing for photography, quality for testing/auditing. When all this was complete some of them were assigned VINs and were sold, others were scrapped.

Even though there never was a 1983 Corvette sold to the public Chevy built about 50 cars; one of them is in the museum. Same process for many years. The CRG has a '67 with a May 66 body tag.

aburgess- The reason it is worth more than a "beat-up roller" is because it is the very first of the Camaros. 1967 was the first year of the Camaro. Norwood started producing before LOS. Yes, it would be a lot of work to put it back to original but not impossible. Fenders, hood, interior,dash, etc. are readily available and aren't serialized to the body. The person that buys this car is somebody who wants to say I own the FIRST Camaro!

William- you are correct. The pilot cars were used for testing, etc. The man that owns this car has talked to GM they told him that the first ten Camaros built were used for testing and that numbers 2-10 were crushed after testing. They said that number one didn't get crushed with the others because many of the executives (President, Vice President, etc.) of GM continued to drive this car.

Even though there never was a 1983 Corvette sold to the public Chevy built about 50 cars; one of them is in the museum. Same process for many years. The CRG has a '67 with a May 66 body tag.

I went to Bowling Green in 84 and toured the Vette plant, the tour guide said there were 2 Vettes built in 83 and one was sitting right there.
Although I read 44 were built for testing but they were probably not street legal or not worthy of the show room by a long shot.

Bodies were not stored. Pilot cars were completed and assigned to engineering, sales & marketing for photography, quality for testing/auditing. When all this was complete some of them were assigned VINs and were sold, others were scrapped.

Even though there never was a 1983 Corvette sold to the public Chevy built about 50 cars; one of them is in the museum. Same process for many years. The CRG has a '67 with a May 66 body tag.

Yes I understand the pilot cars were built and assigned for specific duties, etc. what you said. How about once that part was all said and done? Were bodies built for the consumer and put in a bin like fashion to be put on the assembly line or were they built like you came in at the beginning of a shift and one body rolled out and the car started being put together? Just kind of wondering why a body built before another, in this case Franks 00068 was body 245 and the 00001 was 860. That's 615 bodies apart. I can understand it if the bodies were built and then picked from a bin, not in any order, and then added to the assembly line. I guess I'm not getting this.

no, that was a van nuys car

I met the lady that was married to the guy that bought the first Van Nuys Camaro. She saw my car and started up a conversation. I believe she told me it was white/ 6 cyl. Her husband was a big-wig at the plant. Of course, that's her version anyways.

Yes I understand the pilot cars were built and assigned for specific duties, etc. what you said. How about once that part was all said and done? Were bodies built for the consumer and put in a bin like fashion to be put on the assembly line or were they built like you came in at the beginning of a shift and one body rolled out and the car started being put together? Just kind of wondering why a body built before another, in this case Franks 00068 was body 245 and the 00001 was 860. That's 615 bodies apart. I can understand it if the bodies were built and then picked from a bin, not in any order, and then added to the assembly line. I guess I'm not getting this.

Each car was built to an individual order; bodies were not built in body number order. Bodies were flowed directly into assembly and completed.

http://www.camaros.org/bodynumbering.shtml

Each car was built to an individual order; bodies were not built in body number order. Bodies were flowed directly into assembly and completed.

http://www.camaros.org/bodynumbering.shtml


I think I understand now after reading the link. I can understand why I was confused. Very interesting facts on how things were done.

35K, wonder if they are real bids.............. Still has not reserve! If it does not hit reserve with a few hours left it will hurt the auction.

When the last ebay bid just sits there for days that usually means his buddies were bidding and trying to push the price. It got no bidding action for a long time. Something does not look right about that. Having #1 would be fine but the car looks like a basket case so all you have is the first body produced and not even that.

...an interesting car that's for sure.
Not that it matters much (since all the drivetrain is missing), ...but it appears the subframe is the later style too (early ones didn't have the inboard 'tow hook holes').
...reserve not met at $35K...

Well. it went from 20-35k in a day which looked suspicious. It would not surprise me if the next bid would have sold the car. I think there were some real bids in the 10-20k range.

I think you are right about the serious bidders at the 10-20k level. Notice the seller lowered the reserve too. I think some friends were trying to help him out by pushing the bid. Did you notice that the locations for the confirming numbers are missing too. Everything rides on the one VIN tag. That is too suspect. Hey KevinK7, tell me more about the subframe issue with this car.

I think the car is real. But do you really want to give 35-40k for a car that would normally be 3 or 4k. You are giving 30-35k for the VIN tag!

Not only are you paying that kind of money for a VIN tag but once it is restored you have a very plain (no cool options) 6 cylinder car. Almost everything is missing and to restore a car like this you better have everything right because every Camaro "expert" will constanly be pointing out every little thing that is not correct. I think you would have over 10k just in parts that were period correct.

Just leave it like it is.Why does every car need a concour resto.The current setup is part of the history of the car.

I'm sorry but 20% of this car is about all the original you'd have left if that.
There's no interior, or front clip, no original glass not to mention drive train or suspension. It would be hard to save the quarters and you would need a front sub-frame. You might as well go out and get a Dynacorn body and rivet the vin on it cuz that's essentially what you'd have anyway :sad:

20% of this car is .... original

I bet the other 80% is buried in HWY Star Joe's Back Yard ;o)

I bet the other 80% is buried in HWY Star Joe's Back Yard ;o)



Here we go again!!:beers:

I believe that I would restore, but as the race car it was more than likely most of its days. It would still be vin# 0001, but you could run it and have some fun with it. Maybe make it street legal so you could play with it, but leave it as close to race cars days as you could?

Not only are you paying that kind of money for a VIN tag but once it is restored you have a very plain (no cool options) 6 cylinder car. Almost everything is missing and to restore a car like this you better have everything right because every Camaro "expert" will constanly be pointing out every little thing that is not correct. I think you would have over 10k just in parts that were period correct.

No, you are paying to own the very first Camaro ever produced. It's not about what options it has or doesn't have. I do, however wish it originally came with a V8. I agree it would be cooler. This car is a part of American automobile history! I also have to agree about the fact that Camaro experts would definitely be looking hard to find things that aren't correct, but a car like this (if it is going to be restored) should be done by a Camaro expert in the first place.

I'm sorry but 20% of this car is about all the original you'd have left if that.
There's no interior, or front clip, no original glass not to mention drive train or suspension. It would be hard to save the quarters and you would need a front sub-frame. You might as well go out and get a Dynacorn body and rivet the vin on it cuz that's essentially what you'd have anyway :sad:

This car does have all of the original glass. The windshield and back glass were taken out back in the '80 to keep them from being broken by things like hail. It isn't shown in the pics, but it comes with the car. I have seen it with my own eyes.Why do you say it would be hard to save the quarters? The quarters are in excellent shape. The rust you see is very light surface rust. And since the windshield and backglass were taken out a long time ago, it kept the areas around the windows from rusting out (again, only light surface rust). The body is in great shape! The pics do not do this car justice.

Oh, and by the way. I see many of you doubting the bids. The guy that owns this car would never have friends, family, or anybody else bid to jack the price up. Only a un-honest person would try that. I promise you all that all of those bids were real. In my mind it should have went much higher than that.

What the auction showed last night, was nobody really cared that it was Camaro #1. I still don't believe somebody bid 35 K on it. Why doesn't he just start the bidding on what he wants for it, or put a buy it now on it?

I don't know why he didn't just start it higher. I would have. That may have scared some people and made them not believe it was #1 when they saw the low starting price.

I don't know what he wants for the car but if he had started the bidding higher no one would have bid on the thing at all. I agree with OK69 that the 35k was not a real bid. If it was a real bid he should have made a deal with the bidder fast. Before the bidder figured out what he was getting. It wasn't the starting bid that scared them, it was the pictures. The car is part of history but not much of it is left.

I'm sorry but I don't see it. So whats left after becoming a drag car in 1979 (not much worthy history here) is 2 quarters (if original) 2 doors all glass, and roof. Maybe decklid and firewall (side cowls are missing) So what you have is the unibody minus dash rear frame rails and part of the floor. And from the pics at least one of the hidden vins is gone.
Yes there is value in being the first production camaro, and I think 20k to 25k was it.
It's a shame this car wasn't spared in 1979.

So it's onto 7n100011, hope its a v8.

I assume the car is missing both hidden VIN's??

I believe this car will bid well beyond the price it is at now. There is only 1 first Camaro..and restored and marketed correctly, I believe this car could be worth well over 100k.

Althoughh expensive to restore, it will be much cheaper than having to restore a COPO or even a Z28 in the same shape. One could probably by a very nice low milage 6 cylinder car for under 25k and swap everything to this car.

The CRG has a '67 with a May 66 body tag.


William,

what is the body number of that car??? Is it one of the pilot cars?? VIN or no VIN?? Would the' first' Camaro built then be NOR body number 1 ??
just curious.....

Max

... Hey KevinK7, tell me more about the subframe issue with this car.


Note in this photo (of one of my '67's, Nov '66 build), ...the absence of the (approx.) 3" dia. 'tie down' hole. The earlier subframes were like this, they did not have the hole. The #00001 car in the auction DOES have the holes in the subframe, ...hence I would suspect it was changed out at some point too.


http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m254/HVClassics/67BlackPlate/67camaro042.jpg

The car may be worth 100k when it is restored but you will have a lot more than that invested in it. Besides if you had it restored then took it to a show you would have to stand there and say it is not the original motor, trans, diff., seats, dash, steering wheel, front clip, deck lid, suspension, radiator, rear view mirror, floor pans, gas tank, trunk pan, gauges, wiring harness, hood, air cleaner, heater core, wiper motor, wiper assembly, cowl, wheel rims, hub caps, etc......... That is too much explaining to impress most car people. I agree with 67RS/SS396, there is too much gone to justify some of the values that are being thrown around. If you got it free you will have more invested in it than it will be worth but someone may want that labor of love. I know I have more invested in most of my cars than I could ever receive if I sold them but that doesn't mean I want to grossly over pay for them when I buy them. I hope he finds someone who wants the challenge and has money to burn.

Hey KevinK7, thanks for the photo. I will have to store that tidbit of info away in my brain (what is left of it). I think you are right. The front suspesion has probably been replaced in #1. That would be impossible to correct if someone wanted to restore the car to near original condition. You will never find the correct frame if you had 100 donor cars.

... You will never find the correct frame if you had 100 donor cars.

I was actually looking for one of these early frames for another project I have, ...and amazingly came across one. Thanks to 'TravlinZ28' here on this board :thumbsup:

Note in this photo (of one of my '67's, Nov '66 build), ...the absence of the (approx.) 3" dia. 'tie down' hole. The earlier subframes were like this, they did not have the hole. The #00001 car in the auction DOES have the holes in the subframe, ...hence I would suspect it was changed out at some point too.

Where did you get this information about only the early subframes not having the tie down hole? I have seen many '67s with the tie down holes in the subframe. In fact do a Google image search and you will see that about half of results have the 3" hole.

Where did you get this information about only the early subframes not having the tie down hole? I have seen many '67s with the tie down holes in the subframe. In fact do a Google image search and you will see that about half of results have the 3" hole.

Yes it is true that many(most) '67 did come with the tie down holes, ...however the early cars did not.

I have two pre-Dec. '66 built '67's without the holes, ...have discussed this with others, ...as well it is noted on the CRG site.
http://www.camaros.org/geninfo.shtml#67to68

...If I remember correctly, ...I believe there are even cases where on the same car, ...one side had the hole, ...and the other not.






Q: What were some of the changes occurring mid-year?

A: 1967 mid-year changes included:

•Addition of a factory traction bar (radius rod) to most models with 12-bolt rear axle (circa December 1966).
View CRG Research Report on 1967 radius rods.
•Addition of the L35 and L78 396 engines (circa January and March 1967, respectively).
•Replacement of SS-350 grille emblems with SS emblems.
•Addition of the Z28 (circa December 1966).
•SS nose stripe turned into RPO available to all models (except Z28).
•Frame tie-down holes added to front subframe.

Why do you say it would be hard to save the quarters? The quarters are in excellent shape. The rust you see is very light surface rust.
I was referring to the wheel arches they look like they were made larger and would be a little work to bring them back to the original radius.

It doesn't make a lot of since why they would have gone through the trouble of changing subframes unless they just needed the V8 mounts since it was originally a six cylinder. However, it is possible.

I was referring to the wheel arches they look like they were made larger and would be a little work to bring them back to the original radius.

That it is something I never noticed. It does look like they could have been lengthened a little to fit the slicks easier.

Could somebody give me the measurements for the length (inside edge of lowest point to inside edge of lowest point) and height of an original wheel opening? I will see if I can get him to measure it and see if it has been widened. Put a straight-edge from the two lowest points of the quarters on each side of the wheel and measure from there up to the lower edge of the upper wheel well lip to get the height. Thanks in advance.

I used tape cuz I'm not a photoshop wiz. :o
The green tape shows where I measured.
That's 13 1/4" and 18"

You don't need a measurement to see those wheelwell openings have been stretched.

The measurements on # 1 are 10 1/4" and 15 1/4". So it is about 3" wider than yours, jr68, on either side of the tire. He did say that if it wasn't from the factory like that then somebody did a heck of a job because the wheel well lip doesn't appear to ever have been touched and is the same width from end to end. But even still, if it has been stretched, it's just sheetmetal. Sheetmetal can easily be repaired or replaced.

Where did you get this information about only the early subframes not having the tie down hole? I have seen many '67s with the tie down holes in the subframe. In fact do a Google image search and you will see that about half of results have the 3" hole. My early 67 vert is doesn't have the 3" hole in it. I thought it was changed out, guess it is original as well

The measurements on # 1 are 10 1/4" and 15 1/4". So it is about 3" wider than yours, jr68, on either side of the tire. He did say that if it wasn't from the factory like that then somebody did a heck of a job because the wheel well lip doesn't appear to ever have been touched and is the same width from end to end. But even still, if it has been stretched, it's just sheetmetal. Sheetmetal can easily be repaired or replaced.
It is true that sheetmetal can be repaired but in this case that means that every piece of sheetmetal, except the roof, has been cut or is missing on #1. Not much left of ole' #1 except the VIN tag.

It doesn't make a lot of since why they would have gone through the trouble of changing subframes unless they just needed the V8 mounts since it was originally a six cylinder. However, it is possible.
I thought the frame had been modified a couple of times to mount the ladder bars. They probably modified it to the point that it was easier to get another frame to make it right. Since they were racing this car in the 70's frames like that would have been plentiful in junk yards.
Does anyone know if the leaf springs are the correct springs?

It is true that sheetmetal can be repaired but in this case that means that every piece of sheetmetal, except the roof, has been cut or is missing on #1. Not much left of ole' #1 except the VIN tag.

And your point is...? Haven't you ever seen where somebody rescued a Duesenberg, had to fabricate nearly every piece of the motor, make all of the sheetmetal, and almost every single piece of the car? The car is still the same car, its just been RESTORED. I guarantee that a Duesenberg like that would still bring over a million bucks easy. As a matter of fact, I bet you half of the cars at a Concours d'Elegance car show don't even have 1/4 of the parts or sheetmetal that originally came on the car. But if they are restored nicely, they bring huge amounts of money because of what they are, which is RARE. GM only made one first Camaro! That makes it very rare. Any true car person would see that this car is a major piece of history. The fact that it got turned into a race car back in the day is probably the only thing that saved this original six cylinder car from going to the crusher. Because back then, #1 meant nothing. But today it is one of the most historical iconic cars in existence.

And your point is...? Haven't you ever seen where somebody rescued a Duesenberg, had to fabricate nearly every piece of the motor, make all of the sheetmetal, and almost every single piece of the car? The car is still the same car, its just been RESTORED. I guarantee that a Duesenberg like that would still bring over a million bucks easy. As a matter of fact, I bet you half of the cars at a Concours d'Elegance car show don't even have 1/4 of the parts or sheetmetal that originally came on the car. But if they are restored nicely, they bring huge amounts of money because of what they are, which is RARE. GM only made one first Camaro! That makes it very rare. Any true car person would see that this car is a major piece of history. The fact that it got turned into a race car back in the day is probably the only thing that saved this original six cylinder car from going to the crusher. Because back then, #1 meant nothing. But today it is one of the most historical iconic cars in existence.
Your point is well taken. I also agree that the fact it was a race car probably did save it from the crusher. However, our main discussion is around how much this car is worth "as is" right now. So what do you think it is worth in its current condition?

Well, Haggerty offered to insure it for over a million dollars. Your guess is as good as mine. The current owner has been trying to find the answer to the same question. That is one of the reasons that it was on Ebay.

Haggerty would likely insure it for a million, for some ridiculous premium that would be unaffordable. The buyer of the #1 car will need to be pretty rich. 99% of buyers that spend 30-50k on a car want a nice looking driving car. If you give even 35k for the #1 car, you will have 10's of thousands more to put into it, and its still the 6 cylinder car. Also, it appears the #1 car was likely not even close to being #1 off the assembly line, and that doesn't help anything. That being said, if Leno or someone like that wants it, then it fetches the money.

I can guarantee that the car will bring much more than 35K. And who doesn't have tens of thousands in a full restoration? And the body code isn't number one, but the VIN is. VIN tags are put on in numerical order as the cars go down the assembly line, so it is the first one off the assembly line.

If I bought a brand new car today one of the first things I would look at is the vin. If it ended in 0000000000001 I would notice it right away and have many reservations about chopping it up.

Well, Haggerty offered to insure it for over a million dollars. Your guess is as good as mine. The current owner has been trying to find the answer to the same question. That is one of the reasons that it was on Ebay.
I work for an insurance company and I can tell you that if you want to pay preminums on a million dollar policy on something worth 10k that is fine with us, but you will only get what it is worth if it is lost. You don't get the face value of the policy, you get the value of what you lost. But let's be honest, everything forward of the firewall (including some of the firewall) is not original or it is gone. Both verification numbers are gone, the frame (including the suspension) is not original as shown in the pictures from ebay. All of the interior is gone and the entire drivetrain is gone. Many people have doubts that it is actually #1 and aside from one VIN plate you can not prove it is number. Haggerty would love for you to pay premiums on a million dollar policy then try to collect a million if it is lost given those facts. Let's face it. Everything rides on one VIN plate and I have seen enough fakes to know that some people can fake anything. Too convienient that both verification numbers are gone. Believe me, the idea that this is #1 puts a smile on my face and I hope to see the car in person one day but too much doubt hangs in the air. He should have taken the high bid on ebay and written "as is, no warranty" on the bill of sale.

You say its only worth 10K, but many experts out there that actually know something about cars and there values say otherwise. The car has been appraised by several respected appraisers, and they all valued it at over a million dollars. Haggerty agreed to pay the appraised value if anything happened to the car. What the car got up to on Ebay isn't close to what he has already been offered. It has been verified time and time again to be the first Camaro.

The car sat in field behind a guys shop for over 20 years in race car condition. Look at the pic of the VIN again. Notice the paint cracking and flaking off the VIN. That is because it is the same paint that is on the rest of the car and has been there for a very long time.

It wouldn't be that hard to restore that car back to original condition. Buy a 1967 six cylinder Camaro to use as a donor car and transfer the parts over to it. Have any of you guys ever restored a car before?

You say its only worth 10K, but many experts out there that actually know something about cars and there values say otherwise. The car has been appraised by several respected appraisers, and they all valued it at over a million dollars. Haggerty agreed to pay the appraised value if anything happened to the car. What the car got up to on Ebay isn't close to what he has already been offered. It has been verified time and time again to be the first Camaro.

The car sat in field behind a guys shop for over 20 years in race car condition. Look at the pic of the VIN again. Notice the paint cracking and flaking off the VIN. That is because it is the same paint that is on the rest of the car and has been there for a very long time.

It wouldn't be that hard to restore that car back to original condition. Buy a 1967 six cylinder Camaro to use as a donor car and transfer the parts over to it. Have any of you guys ever restored a car before?
First let me say that I am not accusing the owner of trying to pull a fast one. I wouldn't do that but I am looking at it objectively. For example, if it had the VIN tag and the early style frame that only came out on the earliest cars that would help. But that frame is gone. The existance of a hidden verification number would help but both are gone.
This is not a restoration it would be a recreation because so much is gone.

If it were me... I agree with some of the previous posts. I would restore it as the race car it is.
Either way, it's still the first camaro without having to put a 6cyl back in it.
That being said, it's too bad things were changed in the late 70's.

This is the first production Camaro.
No brass plaque, no ribbon cutting ceremony, no charity auction to the highest bidder, it just happens to be lucky VIN #100001.
Sure, there where many clay models, test vehicles, prototypes, pilot assembly, and even some production bodies before this one. But this is the first VIN'ed Camaro.
It's very desirable and collectible, even as a 6 cylinder.

Here is what I think will happen, and should happen:
The car will sell privately to a well known collector for a considerable amount.
It will be professionally restored to a very high standard, as it came from the factory.
It will be shown on the car show circuit for several years where it will be a main attraction.
Then it will kept in a museum type collection and make occasional special appearances.

As a Camaro fan, I am just happy it has survived and has been found. I look forward to seeing it in person some day.

68 Ragtop, I agree with you completely.

Someone should put this up for a vote - How much (by range) is it worth (to them), how much does originality matter (to them) and how should it be restored (stock, race car, or perhaps left as is).

Someone should put this up for a vote - How much (by range) is it worth (to them), how much does originality matter (to them) and how should it be restored (stock, race car, or perhaps left as is).
Originality matters so I hope someone restores it as close as possible to original condition. In its present condition it is worth 10-15k.

The thing that sucks about this car is this thread. Lets say in 2 years "the first production camaro" pops up for sale. All original. 1 million dollars. etc etc. Nope. We will expose it and confront it. It will never be allowed to sell like the owner will like. It will be ruthless. If it were my camaro it would never have been advertised as a bastard car like it is and always will be for the rest of its life. It would have been sold as a roller with NOS body parts pinch welded in place. Some brazing in places, and leadwork done. Would have banked on it and the truth would go to the grave with me.

The thing that sucks about this car is this thread. Lets say in 2 years "the first production camaro" pops up for sale. All original. 1 million dollars. etc etc. Nope. We will expose it and confront it. It will never be allowed to sell like the owner will like. It will be ruthless. If it were my camaro it would never have been advertised as a bastard car like it is and always will be for the rest of its life. It would have been sold as a roller with NOS body parts pinch welded in place. Some brazing in places, and leadwork done. Would have banked on it and the truth would go to the grave with me.

I don't think that would happen- since you stated all original. The value there is proven and justified.
The debate here is mostly trying to find the value of this particular car.
It's hard since the seller is thinking it's worth a million just because it's #1.
Folks here say it's only worth up to 20k for just a vin tag and what once was #1.

Lemme try this:

you buy the Mona Lisa when its new. (just go with this for a sec)
Some time goes by, you decide to change some colors that you would like on the background a little better.
Little more time goes by you find out the original painting is sought after by many, so natch its valuable... and you have it!
But you changed it to your liking, not the artists original anymore.

Still worth 1 mil?

I think not.
Missed opportunity. Innocently so, since the late 70s or so it was just a used car, it was ok to chop up, but now since it has a little slice of collectability to it owner is attempting to extract all he/she can on a highly modified piece.
Won't work. ( well, somebody will take it, but $ wise ??? )
It's just #1. Thats all.
I'd rather have a COPO, Yenko, etc etc but #1 is just that,
interesting in a way, but, yawn.
Sorry.

The thing that sucks about this car is this thread. Lets say in 2 years "the first production camaro" pops up for sale. All original. 1 million dollars. etc etc. Nope. We will expose it and confront it. It will never be allowed to sell like the owner will like. It will be ruthless. If it were my camaro it would never have been advertised as a bastard car like it is and always will be for the rest of its life. It would have been sold as a roller with NOS body parts pinch welded in place. Some brazing in places, and leadwork done. Would have banked on it and the truth would go to the grave with me.
So true. This car will always have a cloud hanging over it once it is restored because the truth is known. People keep saying they would get a donor car and remove all of the parts and put them into #1. With the amount of parts that would have to be taken from the donor car to restore it why not just put the VIN tag on the donor car and call it good. It is about the same thing.

If this was just any 67 camaro it might bring 1500 bucks. But this car , if legit, will eventually fetch big money. Not a million, but certainly not 10K either. There is/was only one #1 Camaro. If this is really it, If it can be verified that the vin has never been off this car, no matter how little is left, some collector will step up and buy it just because its No 1. The value is not the sum of its parts, missing or not, but solely in the VIN tag. Look how many threads are going on restorations of plain jane base Camaros that were gutted to the bare rockers and beyond. An hour on the phone and every missing piece could be on the way to your shop. Of course it would be easier to swap the tag to another car, but I imagine the attention on this car from this point on will hopefully prevent that.

I've followed some vintage Ferrari restorations, and was amazed how little was left of some of those cars. I recently saw a thread on another site about a vintage race car that was burned, crushed, and then buried for years, and was being rebuilt.

True enough, a serious "numbers" Camaro collector probably wouldn't want it for all the reasons stated, but someone who's collection is not so narrowly focused will have to have it because if it is the first production Camaro.

$1,200,000 , only if the ashtray was never used.

$1,200,000 , only if the ashtray was never used.
You will never know, the ashtray is long gone. So how much without the ashtray?

If this was just any 67 camaro it might bring 1500 bucks. But this car , if legit, will eventually fetch big money. Not a million, but certainly not 10K either. There is/was only one #1 Camaro. If this is really it, If it can be verified that the vin has never been off this car, no matter how little is left, some collector will step up and buy it just because its No 1. The value is not the sum of its parts, missing or not, but solely in the VIN tag. Look how many threads are going on restorations of plain jane base Camaros that were gutted to the bare rockers and beyond. An hour on the phone and every missing piece could be on the way to your shop. Of course it would be easier to swap the tag to another car, but I imagine the attention on this car from this point on will hopefully prevent that.

I've followed some vintage Ferrari restorations, and was amazed how little was left of some of those cars. I recently saw a thread on another site about a vintage race car that was burned, crushed, and then buried for years, and was being rebuilt.

True enough, a serious "numbers" Camaro collector probably wouldn't want it for all the reasons stated, but someone who's collection is not so narrowly focused will have to have it because if it is the first production Camaro.
I am not sure you could ever verify the VIN tag has never been off of the car. The pictures look pretty convincing but my biggest problem is nothing left on the car backs up the VIN tag. No early frame, no verification numbers, motor, trans, anything to support the VIN. The person who buys it is acting on faith. Lots of faith.

Why isn't owner of the car on here to answer some of these questions? 55Htdp, you seem to know him, why isn't he addressing some of the issues? If I were him I would want to set the record straight.

^^ what he said ^^

Yes, I do know him. As I stated earlier, he is my brother-in-law. I thought I had addressed the issues pretty well. What questions do you have that have not been answered? He's been trying to keep me up to date on everything that's going on with it.

For 23 years I've known where this car has sat, but never dreamed that it was VIN #1. The guy that owned it, said that he would never sell it and that the car would go to the grave with him because he had always dreamed of redoing it and racing it again. However, health issues eventually forced him to sell it. My brother-in-law had always wanted it and finally got to buy it.

If you guys have more questions, I'll be happy to answer them. If I can't, I can ask him. Like I said before, his job keeps him very busy as does his family. That's probably why he hasn't been on here but once.

Yes, I do know him. As I stated earlier, he is my brother-in-law. I thought I had addressed the issues pretty well. What questions do you have that have not been answered? He's been trying to keep me up to date on everything that's going on with it.

For 23 years I've known where this car has sat, but never dreamed that it was VIN #1. The guy that owned it, said that he would never sell it and that the car would go to the grave with him because he had always dreamed of redoing it and racing it again. However, health issues eventually forced him to sell it. My brother-in-law had always wanted it and finally got to buy it.

If you guys have more questions, I'll be happy to answer them. If I can't, I can ask him. Like I said before, his job keeps him very busy as does his family. That's probably why he hasn't been on here but once.
Has the car been verified by anyone who is an authority on Camaros?
Are both verification numbers really missing? The pictures indicate the frame is a later production frame which has replaced the original frame, is that true and does any of the original remain? The pictures indicate the dash and its support structure has been removed, true or not? From the pictures it appears the roll cage has been moved because you can see unused holes on the firewall, is that true. Is there any interior (including the steering wheel), drive train, suspension, or frame that is left of the original car? The pictures indicate the floor pan and trunk pan have been cut up leaving lots of ragged holes, what is the state of the pans. The pictures indicate the package tray and the support structure to support the back seat have been cut out, what is the condition of the support structure. Have the doors been "lightened" like most race cars where they cut out metal to save weight. Did they also cut out metal from the trunk lid which is also common for race cars or is it fiberglass? I don't mean to machine gun you with questions but this will give us an understanding of how much of the original car is actually left because from the pictures that were on ebay it looks like most of the car has been removed or cut up.

Has the car been verified by anyone who is an authority on Camaros?
Are both verification numbers really missing? The pictures indicate the frame is a later production frame which has replaced the original frame, is that true and does any of the original remain? The pictures indicate the dash and its support structure has been removed, true or not? From the pictures it appears the roll cage has been moved because you can see unused holes on the firewall, is that true. Is there any interior (including the steering wheel), drive train, suspension, or frame that is left of the original car? The pictures indicate the floor pan and trunk pan have been cut up leaving lots of ragged holes, what is the state of the pans. The pictures indicate the package tray and the support structure to support the back seat have been cut out, what is the condition of the support structure. Have the doors been "lightened" like most race cars where they cut out metal to save weight. Did they also cut out metal from the trunk lid which is also common for race cars or is it fiberglass? I don't mean to machine gun you with questions but this will give us an understanding of how much of the original car is actually left because from the pictures that were on ebay it looks like most of the car has been removed or cut up.

First, who do you consider to be an authority on Camaros? It has been verified by several appraisers who have dealt with pricing muscle cars for years. GM has verified the VIN to be original, placement of the VIN to be original, rivets to be original, and that it hasn't been off the car.

Unfortunately, both hidden VINs were cut off back in the day and replaced by aluminum panels. I asked my brother-in-law about this today and he said he removed the aluminum panels to make sure, but they were cut out.

I'll have to check on the frame. I don't see why somebody would go through the trouble of switching out the frame though. I'll also have to check on the dash.

The rollcage does not appear to ever have been moved. Where do you see unused holes about the size of the roll cage tubing?

The steering column, the trim that goes above the door panels, the window regulators, and the window crank handles are the only original interior items (no steering wheel). Drivetrain was removed when it was converted to a race car and is no longer with the car. As for the suspension, frame, and trunk pan, I attached some pics to answer that question. The floor pans just have access holes cut to adjust the end link eyelets on the ladder bars and part of the trans tunnel was cut out. The rest of the floor is good.

I'll check on the package tray and seat support. I'll also check to see if he has looked under the plastic covers on the inside of the doors to see if the doors been lightened and if metal has been removed from the trunk lid. The trunk lid is steel.

I told you I would be happy to answer your questions, so ask away.

Here is the link to the pics: http://s109.photobucket.com/albums/n48/espics55/Camaro%201/

First, who do you consider to be an authority on Camaros? It has been verified by several appraisers who have dealt with pricing muscle cars for years. GM has verified the VIN to be original, placement of the VIN to be original, rivets to be original, and that it hasn't been off the car.

Unfortunately, both hidden VINs were cut off back in the day and replaced by aluminum panels. I asked my brother-in-law about this today and he said he removed the aluminum panels to make sure, but they were cut out.

I'll have to check on the frame. I don't see why somebody would go through the trouble of switching out the frame though. I'll also have to check on the dash.

The rollcage does not appear to ever have been moved. Where do you see unused holes about the size of the roll cage tubing?

The steering column, the trim that goes above the door panels, the window regulators, and the window crank handles are the only original interior items (no steering wheel). Drivetrain was removed when it was converted to a race car and is no longer with the car. As for the suspension, frame, and trunk pan, I attached some pics to answer that question. The floor pans just have access holes cut to adjust the end link eyelets on the ladder bars and part of the trans tunnel was cut out. The rest of the floor is good.

I'll check on the package tray and seat support. I'll also check to see if he has looked under the plastic covers on the inside of the doors to see if the doors been lightened and if metal has been removed from the trunk lid. The trunk lid is steel.

I told you I would be happy to answer your questions, so ask away.

Here is the link to the pics: http://s109.photobucket.com/albums/n48/espics55/Camaro%201/
From the ebay pictures it looked like an extra hole in the firewall but is actually the hole behind the master cylinder. I guess I need glasses. The real point of our discussion is to figure out what the car is worth. Why not end our speculation and tell us what has he been offered for the car? How much does he want for it?

The thing that sucks about this car is this thread. Lets say in 2 years "the first production camaro" pops up for sale. All original. 1 million dollars. etc etc. Nope. We will expose it and confront it. It will never be allowed to sell like the owner will like. It will be ruthless. If it were my camaro it would never have been advertised as a bastard car like it is and always will be for the rest of its life. It would have been sold as a roller with NOS body parts pinch welded in place. Some brazing in places, and leadwork done. Would have banked on it and the truth would go to the grave with me.


You are just openly admitting that you would be dishonest and perhaps fraudulent in the sale of this vehicle.

Assuming that this car is number 1 (I have no reason to assume it is not) and that it does come up for sale after a resto, the potential buyers should be told the truth about it. Everything form it's history to it's restoration process.

Truth is, we've had enough of people being less than honest about restored camaros.

Many people have stated that this car is not very interesting even if it is #1 because of its poor condition and the fact it is still a 6 cylinder even if it is #1. Well on ebay right now is a real car of value. A true 1967 RS Z-28. Now that is a desireable car. You can talk all you want about this car being #1 but take a look at the 1967 Z-28 which is in great condition and tell me which car you think is a good deal. The buy-it-now price on the Z-28 is 85k. I would spend 85k on that car (if I had it) and still have something that will hold that value. Good old #1 would need a ton of money to restore it. It does not compare in value to the Z and never will. For those who think old #1 is a million dollar car please take a look at the Z-28 and tell us which one you would want.

Well the 67 Z28 is the better car of course, and is the one i'd want too, since I couldn't commit to the money this one will take to restore, but that 67 Z is one of 602, not 1 of 1. You're not going to talk to someone else (hopefully!) who has another #1 67 camaro. A serious collector may already have a few pace cars, 1st gen z28s, and L78 or 2, maybe even a Yenko or ZL1, but he won't already have ole 000001. That's why I think it will eventually bring big dollars.

You may be right. It may bring big money but I think the 67 Z-28 will always have it beat. I wish the guy who turned ole #1 into a race car had figured it out and saved it but junk yards were full of Camaros in those days. A few posts earlier I asked 55Hdtp to tell us what the owner of ole #1 has been offered and how much he wants for it. So far it has been quiet. I really would like to know what it will take to buy it.

Blown525, it really isn't any of your business what he wants for the car unless you are a serious buyer. That being said I will say that he has been offered over $100k. How much over will be left to your imagination. Oh and by the way, he has located and purchased the original motor and transmission for the car.

Can you get some pics of the stampings?...Not that I doubt you, I just think it would be cool to see them if the Vin stamping is intact.

Blown525, it really isn't any of your business what he wants for the car unless you are a serious buyer. That being said I will say that he has been offered over $100k. How much over will be left to your imagination. Oh and by the way, he has located and purchased the original motor and transmission for the car.
I didn't mean to hit a nerve about the price. It really doesn't seem like that would be a big secret since it is for sale. You never know who might be lurking in the shadows and reading these posts. I am sure that people who have the money to purchase and restore this car have been reading all of the forums (including this one). If he found the original motor I think that is great. Now things are moving in the right direction. The original motor and trans will add value to the car but it was my understanding that they were not marked with the VIN's or any special marking that would let you identify them as the originals but they can be identified as period correct. I may be wrong about the markings so I will leave it to the experts. I will say one thing about the "over 100k" offer. Let me guess, someone in Argentina or China said they would pay 200k for it. Just put it on the ship and the check is in the mail. I have had those types of offers before on things I have sold. Are you saying he had a real live cash in hand buyer offer him over 100k for the car? If it was a cash buyer with money in hand he should have taken it. The ebay auction demonstrated the level of interest in the car and it was not 100k. Look, I hope he gets the million for the car that some people think it is worth and the buyer restores it to show quality and I hope I get to see it. Believe it or not I do think it is cool that #1 might exist. I have no ill will towards the seller. I have never met the man. Next time you see him tell him to take the 100k, but only if it is cash.

I will say one thing about the "over 100k" offer. Let me guess, someone in Argentina or China said they would pay 200k for it. Just put it on the ship and the check is in the mail. I have had those types of offers before on things I have sold. Are you saying he had a real live cash in hand buyer offer him over 100k for the car? If it was a cash buyer with money in hand he should have taken it. The ebay auction demonstrated the level of interest in the car and it was not 100k.

No, it was not some overseas scammer. Believe me, I have run across plenty of those idiots trying to screw me too. It was a real offer from a real person. And the bid you saw on Ebay didn't come close to several offers he had from people calling him while the car was listed on Ebay again from real people. I hope you do get to see this car someday in person. It is really cool getting to be that close to a piece of history that nobody even knew still existed. You stand there and look at it and think "wow, this is the first of an iconic line of GM muscle cars". Six cylinder or not, bad condition or good, it is still really neat seeing a Camaro VIN that ends in 00001.

If he passed an offer for 100k of real money, he made a huge mistake IMO. And considering it may or may not have real bids for 35k on EBAY, there is a big gap between those 2 numbers.

I know opinions vary but if this car is ever restored the only original part you will be standing by is the vin tag. I just completely rotissorie restored a 67 rs/ss 396 and I hated everytime I could not keep and reuse an original part on the car. This is why I favor my 67 rs/ss 350 42k mile car more. It is just how it rolled of the line except paint, and added parts by 2nd owner(spoilers and rear speakers).
To me this car is a crap shoot, I would have took the 35k. I do not believe anyone has offer 100k.
Evertime this car comes up it will be know as a rebody.
And as I stated opinions will vary.

If he passed an offer for 100k of real money, he made a huge mistake IMO. And considering it may or may not have real bids for 35k on EBAY, there is a big gap between those 2 numbers.

Thats the day 2 fools met then, the one that offered $100k and the one that turned it down.

Thats funny! It will take somebody with more money than sense to spend a lot on that car. There are just too many nice investment grade cars that look good and are worth the money in the price range of what they want for that car. I would much rather have 69 Z-28 than the #1 that needs a 6 cylinder jammed back in it along with 50k to restore it!

OK69- Like I said before, the bids on Ebay were real bids and not somebody trying to help get the price up. I understand to you $100k is big money. However, there are many others that think that is pocket change. It is also very obvious that you think the best car in the world to have is a '69 Z-28. Me personally, if I was to get a Camaro, I would rather have a COPO or a Yenko any day of the year.

But you guys probably don't believe any of those exist unless they were put directly into a museum when they came off the assembly line. Because if they were restored, had any sheetmetal replaced, had the the rusty seat frames replaced with new, the torn seat covers replaced, the cracked door panels replaced, etc. then it is no longer a COPO or a Yenko, it is now just a "rebodied" worthless car.

By the way, it will never be a rebody. 67RS/SS396- You need to look up the definition of a rebody. Putting quarter skins on and patching a couple of holes in a floor is not rebodying a car.

1969 RS/SS DROPTOP- I don't appreciate anybody calling any member of my family a fool. Also, I never said that he turned down any offer. He has not. He is still receiving offers. Why would you take the first offer that comes when you are still receiving higher offers?

Dude, no offense! What kind of net worth does a person need to have to consider 100k big money? I agree a COPO or a Yenko or Z-28 or SSRS are all very favorable investment grade vehicles! ANY of them. It only takes one buyer for the #1. But nobody delivered that 100k "pocket change" during the auction, and not even 35,100. Honestly, I think the #1 being a 6 cylinder kills it. Who wants to pumpt 50k into a 6 ycylinder car? If its a BBC it brings 35k in a second, probably more IMO.

I own a COPO and a few other odd cars and think # 1 is neat but the combo of how changed it is and being a 6 cylinder really killed how much I would pay for it. I was thinking in the 20's. # 1 probably had some unique assembly details but they are lost forever due to the mods done to it. To do a stud resto you will probably drop 100K easily on it. Would it be worth 100K when done ? Probably. Would it be worth 200K ? Maybe but I doubt it.

Would it really cost 100 grand to restore a 6 cyl powerglide base camaro?
wow.....

Would it really cost 100 grand to restore a 6 cyl powerglide base camaro?
wow.....


All depends on the quality that is wanted,

There is a big difference between a nut and bolt complete resto that a car like this would deserve and a Super Chevy type show resto. Top that will all the sheetmetal this car is going to need and the labor to install it correctly it is going to add up fast.

All depends on the quality that is wanted,

X2!, $100k is not unrealistic for a quality frame-off restoration these days.

If he passed an offer for 100k of real money, he made a huge mistake IMO. And considering it may or may not have real bids for 35k on EBAY, there is a big gap between those 2 numbers.
Dead right. It is hard to run away from the ebay auction. The auction showed the interest in the car (or lack of interest).

I know opinions vary but if this car is ever restored the only original part you will be standing by is the vin tag. I just completely rotissorie restored a 67 rs/ss 396 and I hated everytime I could not keep and reuse an original part on the car. This is why I favor my 67 rs/ss 350 42k mile car more. It is just how it rolled of the line except paint, and added parts by 2nd owner(spoilers and rear speakers).
To me this car is a crap shoot, I would have took the 35k. I do not believe anyone has offer 100k.
Evertime this car comes up it will be know as a rebody.
And as I stated opinions will vary.
I think we should rename this car "Ole VIN Tag".

I see the auction for the 1967 Z-28 on ebay ended and the bidding only went to $42,100. That is a true investment quality car and you think you will get 100k for this car? They have relisted the car.

The classic's market is DOA. A lot of supply, and demand at much lower prices.

I'll agree there are a lot of "what ifs" on this one. Paul Harvey used to say, "You can't un-ring a bell" The car should have stayed out of the limelight until it was at least somewhat put back together. Even 25K spent at a local body shop for a "driver" resto would have made a world of difference. and his timing is terrible with the economy now. He's probably forever missed his chance for the REAL big money the car would have brought at auction around 2004 or so.

Still, I can believe the guy had some decent offers, though likely not to someone who is on here. What i'd be doing is desperately searching for docs from a previous owner. I bet even GM would like to have it back.

I would agree. The big money crowd is getting older and smarter. Timing is everything. 10 years from now, I will be surprised if first gens are not on the decline even more.

There may be a market for this 001 Camaro as some type of transportation museum display car. There are a bunch of museums all over the country that collect antique, vintage, classic, or special interest vehicles.

They buy the 1st or last of production, celebrity cars, cars with some type of interesting history, that they can display.

The Pope's old 1999 VW Golf sold for $244K and have seen other cars that I didn't think were very high value cars but they sold in the $100K to $300K range.

OK69- Like I said before, the bids on Ebay were real bids and not somebody trying to help get the price up. I understand to you $100k is big money. However, there are many others that think that is pocket change. It is also very obvious that you think the best car in the world to have is a '69 Z-28. Me personally, if I was to get a Camaro, I would rather have a COPO or a Yenko any day of the year.

But you guys probably don't believe any of those exist unless they were put directly into a museum when they came off the assembly line. Because if they were restored, had any sheetmetal replaced, had the the rusty seat frames replaced with new, the torn seat covers replaced, the cracked door panels replaced, etc. then it is no longer a COPO or a Yenko, it is now just a "rebodied" worthless car.

By the way, it will never be a rebody. 67RS/SS396- You need to look up the definition of a rebody. Putting quarter skins on and patching a couple of holes in a floor is not rebodying a car.

1969 RS/SS DROPTOP- I don't appreciate anybody calling any member of my family a fool. Also, I never said that he turned down any offer. He has not. He is still receiving offers. Why would you take the first offer that comes when you are still receiving higher offers?
Am I reading right? You told 67RS/SS396 this isn't a rebody because it only needs some quarter skins and a few holes patched? You didn't really mean to say that did you?

Geez, get off the guys back....

Well it is easier to cut some one else , than to realize your original Z, Was a 307, pg car. Thank goodness my Camaro's came with the very RARE, Z, RS, SS, delete options,
It is a lot easier to cut down, than to build up.

Well it is easier to cut some one else , than to realize your original Z, Was a 307, pg car. Thank goodness my Camaro's came with the very RARE, Z, RS, SS, delete options,
It is a lot easier to cut down, than to build up.

You are 100% right. Nowadays those the the BEST options to have. Give me a plain Jane any day. :thumbsup::thumbsup::beers::beers:

1 is still#1. The car is the car . It could be redone (as seen on other members Rebuild of Camaro's a lot worse than this.. The value of the finished product is the Question.Neat to just have it no matter if its original motor & trans or not..

You are 100% right. Nowadays those the the BEST options to have. Give me a plain Jane any day. :thumbsup::thumbsup::beers::beers:
The nice thing about the plain Jane car is the freedom to add fun stuff like stroked big blocks and 14-71 blowers. I would never do that to a car that was original. But if the drive train is long gone and it is a plain Jane car you can have some fun.

Well it is easier to cut some one else , than to realize your original Z, Was a 307, pg car. Thank goodness my Camaro's came with the very RARE, Z, RS, SS, delete options,
It is a lot easier to cut down, than to build up.
Damn it man, I thought mine was the only Z,RS,SS delete around! If it only came with the rust delete option as well!:D

Well has #1 sold yet?

Well has #1 sold yet?
I guess not. He is still waiting for that 100k. I wonder how long he will have to wait.

To each his own. But if I had a suitcase full of C notes just sitting around I would find something else to buy.

Good luck to the owner.

The right way to restore a really valuable car is to buy a very solid donor car with exactly the correct date code sheet metal,and cut out what you need to fix the rare car. It will be hard to find sheet metal with dates that early,and just because of the car's special status the dates are always going to be a point of interest to those observing the car,so what goood is it to have dates that dont mean anything. Another issue with a car like this is that it represents the earliest model of an entire new car run. No doubt changes were made early on as problems were found in the production process,but this car offers no insight to that kind of info since at best it could only be restored using any other 67 Camaro as a referance. If this car had any unique 1 off details that were changed early on the are long gone now. It still is #1, and in a day and age of top value collector cars being built out of rusted out hulks from the cornfields I guess it isnt any different.

The right way to restore a really valuable car is to buy a very solid donor car with exactly the correct date code sheet metal,and cut out what you need to fix the rare car. It will be hard to find sheet metal with dates that early,and just because of the car's special status the dates are always going to be a point of interest to those observing the car,so what goood is it to have dates that dont mean anything. Another issue with a car like this is that it represents the earliest model of an entire new car run. No doubt changes were made early on as problems were found in the production process,but this car offers no insight to that kind of info since at best it could only be restored using any other 67 Camaro as a referance. If this car had any unique 1 off details that were changed early on the are long gone now. It still is #1, and in a day and age of top value collector cars being built out of rusted out hulks from the cornfields I guess it isnt any different.
I had not considered the possible insights that a car like this could offer. Very good point. Too bad this car has lost all of that. The 1967 Z-28 on ebay failed to get past $36k and it is a complete car. This car is little more than a novelty.

I say if it's rusted out then it's worth about $500 bucks.

Blown525, it really isn't any of your business what he wants for the car unless you are a serious buyer. That being said I will say that he has been offered over $100k. How much over will be left to your imagination. Oh and by the way, he has located and purchased the original motor and transmission for the car.
So how is that 100k offer going? Fell apart didn't it. Or it was never real to begin with. It is a good thing talk is cheap.

So how is that 100k offer going? Fell apart didn't it. Or it was never real to begin with. It is a good thing talk is cheap.

Yes it fell apart. $100k never. It has been relisted for $75k or best offer. Seller claims he knows someone to fully restore the car for $28k. Noway thats including parts so add another $10k or more.

Quite honestly, I know who the guy he is talking about is. The guy pretty much builds first generation Camaros and that is it. The stuff I saw looked perfect. He could probably charge more than 28k in other parts of the country with ease. He knows the cars inside and out. I would say that quote is very much legit.You can buy alot of parts for 14k. That leaves 14k for labor. Just a guess.

Here's the ebay auction;

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1967-First-Production-Camaro-EVER-Project-own-history-/110603026846?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item19c074419e

Honestly, if the car was restored and run across Barrett Jackson, I have a hard time believing it would not bring 150k. I think there is a buyer for that car.

In the ebay ad they posted 2 pictures they claim is of the original car
I posted the pictures for future use by Team Camaro members

Would be cool to see this car get restored back to original

I have to admit, I'm really surprised, no bids... Yep, its a hacked up pile, but it's still No 00001.

Is anyone familiar with the appraisal service he used? They have the car valued at 250K...If you could get it for $50K I don't think you'd get hurt, at 75K it gets questionable.

I would agree. I think if the right person sees it, it's sold. Restored the car has to bring over 100k, even in this economy.........

I want to see the quality of that 28K resto.

i want to see the quality of that 28k resto.

x2.

I want to see the quality of that 28K resto.

That guys cars look perfect. I have seen a couple. He restores first gens, SS's RS's or Z-28's, whatever. IF he charged 50k would that make the resto better?

I want to see the quality of that 28K resto.

Can you even use $28K and quality restoration in the same sentence - legally :confused:

No way are you going to restore a car cut up from drag racing for 28K......impossible, especially for someone who does it hoping to make some profit on the job.

This is a historically significant car and when done, especially with the original drive train, should bring big money.

People that restore cars are alot like lawyers. Most lawyers will do anything to make the bill higher. A few will just do the job and get paid.

Minimum 1000 hours to do the job right.

Where is Ram Air Dave. He does resto's for a living.

Ok so you are saying it will take 6 months to restore a car right, for somebody that has done dozens of first gens before?

I too, would like to hear from restoration experts, guys that do this for a living.

This particular car would not be like a restoration where you're hunting high dollar high performance components, Its a 6cyl base coupe, not a ZL1 or JL8 Z28. Drum brakes...open 10 bolt, easy parts to source, The car needs a full floor pan, wheel houses, possibly rear quarters, and of course the front cap, stuff that usually requires replacing anyway. Keeping as much of the remaining original sheetmetal as possible would be my goal. As far as the drive train, I GAVE away a nice running 67 camaro 6cy/ power glide combo..I think a 100 grand resto on THIS car would be at least 50K overpriced, even with a 10K paint job. I've done several 1st gens on a hobby basis, but maybe I'm out of touch on labor rates.

I too, would like to hear from restoration experts, guys that do this for a living.

This particular car would not be like a restoration where you're hunting high dollar high performance components, Its a 6cyl base coupe, not a ZL1 or JL8 Z28. Drum brakes...open 10 bolt, easy parts to source, The car needs a full floor pan, wheel houses, possibly rear quarters, and of course the front cap, stuff that usually requires replacing anyway. Keeping as much of the remaining original sheetmetal as possible would be my goal. As far as the drive train, I GAVE away a nice running 67 camaro 6cy/ power glide combo..I think a 100 grand resto on THIS car would be at least 50K overpriced, even with a 10K paint job. I've done several 1st gens on a hobby basis, but maybe I'm out of touch on labor rates.

That is exactly what I am saying! Buying that drivetrain would be cheap! I am not sure you could get everything you needed and for under 10k!

That is exactly what I am saying! Buying that drivetrain would be cheap! I am not sure you could get everything you needed and for under 10k!

By the time you locate/buy all new GM sheetmetal, all new wiring, all new dash/components, all new date coded glass and chrome and stainless your over $10k easy.

Right, just to be clear, the 10k figure I was talking about was only for paint, not parts and assembly of same. I feel the total figure should still be below 40 grand. The problem is 75K "buy it now" price makes it iffy, certainly if you were building it only to flip. Down the road...yes, But in today's economy I'd be nervous about having $115,000 bucks into it.

The smart move would be for the present owner to build the car (or have it done), then attempt to sell it.

GM did not put a real high dollar paint job on a 67. Wouldn't you want to try to replicate that?

First off I don't believe this car will ever be restored. Did you guys forget the first listing.
There's nothing left original, except roof and doors and decklid.
the rear frame rails are gone, front sub frame is wrong, dash gone,
front cowl gone, hidden vins gone.
This car will be bought private and another early 67 camaro bought and re tag as first camaro.
Look if you goto the bottom of the ocean and remove the name and serial numbers off the titanic and put them on another ship is the new ship now the titanic, I think not!

Oh didn't someone post they found the original engine and tranny? Why is it not listed in the auction?

$28,000 - $10,000(donor car)=$18000- divided by $45.00 per hour = 400 hrs divided by 40 hrs per week = 10 weeks wala rebodied first production camaro.

That would be illegal!

First off the car would need all NOS panels or perfect original panels, I see body and paint burning the $28K EASY! You cannot use a bunch of repro crap to do a car like that. For example, just go find a NOS or uncracked PERFECT 67 dash pad? Your going to be Calling Camaro Specialties or Heartbeat City for every tiny little trinket this car is missing. That stuff is worth huge money and rightfully so. I see so much NOS stuff needed that I think Chill's number of $100K number is light.

Last year we did a 68 RS / SS car, absolute virgin, not a spec of rust, 100% complete except orignal carb and radiator. We used the original seats and never removed the dash from the car! $58K in parts and labor, almost 600 hours and it was already mint. Also scored Platinum at the Winter Nationals and Best Paint!

There are so many people that do not even have a clue as to what all it takes to correctly rotisserie restore a car. $28k is a small start for a correct restoration on this car.

You can spend anything you want on a resto like that. 25-125k probably.

true, and after a point, you're not adding any value to it.

... didn't someone post they found the original engine and tranny? Why is it not listed in the auction?

...

There would be no way to prove it was the "original" engine and tranny ;)

And I could easily see sinking @100K into that vehicle to try to get it back to the 'original' car GM produced ...

Ok so you are saying it will take 6 months to restore a car right, for somebody that has done dozens of first gens before?

I worked in a resto shop and it doesn't matter how many cars you have done.It takes time to do one and do it right.A 6 cylinder takes just as much time to put together as a COPO.If you have never done a car you have no idea how time consuming it can be.$28K would be a nice downpayment on a resto.Also a Z28 , SS or COPO would be easier than a plain jane.Everybody knows the markings correct colors and parts.You would have to do alot of research to do a 6 cylinder car factory correct.Parts would be another problem COPO and Z28 parts are there and people know the numbers.What is the part number for a 67 6 cylinder water pump pulley? How long will it take you to find the correct date code?Somebody has to pay for the time on the phone and internet hunting parts.

Look at the bright side. You can by a nicely restored car for 1/2 (or less) of what is cost to restore a car! Restoration prices were likely based on car values, which have currently crashed. Therefore, restoration costs will come down too, or people will just not have restorations. It's not cost effective now.

But, the number #1 car is likely a different animal. If its value crashed it might be worht 175k restored!

True, the parts for copo /z car are better documented, but are still hard to find due to their limited production. 67 camaro 6 cylinder parts are easy to find, as they were made in the thousands, and there is no real demand for them, not around here at least. Many engines and transmissions were and are still being yanked in favor of v8s. I know of a couple of complete untouched 67 6 cylinder engine/trans combos myself, one has been sitting in storage since 1971. I can't see this car being purchased by the date code crowd anyway. It'll likely end up a display in a museum collection, not scrutinized by a full on camaro collector who requires only NOS parts and factory markings. Who knows what markings what have been on such an early car anyway, all that has been forever lost on this car.

I do agree that the labor will be the significant cost if this car lives again, and it will sooner or later.

Not sure who would pay 175K for the # 1 car being that it is a 6 cylinder. Also being that this is the first one, if you are looking for engine, trans etc for a correct restoration the dates on those 6 cylinder cars from donor cars are probably going to be dated too late.

Because of what the car is, the history, and the current condition. I would think restoring the car to it's drag racing history would be more cost effective than to restore it to it's "original state".
The car will always be the 1st production camaro but it's been a drag racer most of it's life. 28K resto?! I don't think so. 28K rebody? more likely.
So if you do a late 70's era drag racer resto on the car it will still bring a crap load of money and you will have a fraction of what you would have into a ''stock'' restoration. Trying to locate NOS and numbers matching stuff is going to drive you or your wallet to an early grave.
jmo.

Not sure who would pay 175K for the # 1 car being that it is a 6 cylinder. Also being that this is the first one, if you are looking for engine, trans etc for a correct restoration the dates on those 6 cylinder cars from donor cars are probably going to be dated too late.

Leno, Pro Sports players. Somebody that has ALMOST everything!

Because of what the car is, the history, and the current condition. I would think restoring the car to it's drag racing history would be more cost effective than to restore it to it's "original state".
The car will always be the 1st production camaro but it's been a drag racer most of it's life. 28K resto?! I don't think so. 28K rebody? more likely.
So if you do a late 70's era drag racer resto on the car it will still bring a crap load of money and you will have a fraction of what you would have into a ''stock'' restoration. Trying to locate NOS and numbers matching stuff is going to drive you or your wallet to an early grave.
jmo.

I totally agree with Jeff.
It will still be as much of a #1 as it would be with all the replacement parts.
It's stripped down but it's still #1 take it or leave it.
IMO full resto would be a farce.
This car is as far as it will ever go. A faint time capsule, not much of one though.

"A faint time capsule, not much of one though" well said.

Show me a pro sports player that would buy a 6 cylinder Camaro.

I have seen a copo or two and definatly at least one famous race car restored back to "original" with a lot less born with parts then that car has. Imagine a car with a bumper to bumper tube frame,strut front end chassis with tin can floors from the firewall back,most of the firewall gone,all the inner roof and 1/4 structure cut out,the entire rear clip cut apart to make it look like a later year car,and then see the car back to "as raced when new" condition with a stock frame from end to end,stock interior with all the hardware ect. Photo documentation shows it wasnt a rebody,but exactly what would you call it? Same goes for a certain ZL1 that used a "clip" from a donor car. That"clip was every piece of metal from the toe boards to the tail lights,the entire rear structure including the roof,and only the original tail panel was grafted back onto the donor bodyl he car had a glass nose as far as I know too, People are desperate to get their hands on a "super rare car" just to say then own it. Common sense goes out the window.

The car was pulled from ebay so did it sell?

wonder what the final figure was...

I bet it wasn't close to 75k if it sold at all.

Its funny that there was no mention of the original motor/tranny included in the ebay ad.. A few pages back, his brother-in-law said that it had been found and bought also...

I want to see the quality of that 28K resto.

That's what I was thinking...

Who knows, maybe his labor is free and he absorbs most of the parts costs?

Its funny that there was no mention of the original motor/tranny included in the ebay ad.. A few pages back, his brother-in-law said that it had been found and bought also...


Don't you know that there is a fairy Godmother who goes around finding all the original drivetrains of all the valuable camaros? :yes:

I have not researched 6 cyl cars but engine and trans may not be too hard to find.

Would have to check but, you may be able to farm late 1966 to early 67 Nova and Chevelle castings and engine dress parts if they are the same as Camaro?

I don't think they vin stamped the 6 cyl block or PG trans?

A very early Camaro rear may be most difficult part to find.

... I don't think they vin stamped the 6 cyl block or PG trans? ...


I've seen 67 PowerGlides with a Partial ... but not behind a L6 ;)



... Who knows, maybe his labor is free and he absorbs most of the parts costs?

You've been talkin' to my kids huh Dave :p

But .. that is the only way he could do it ... :sad:

Its funny that there was no mention of the original motor/tranny included in the ebay ad.. A few pages back, his brother-in-law said that it had been found and bought also...
True. If I had the original drivetrain I would tell everyone. His brother-in-law also said he had rock solid 100k offers and then he lists it on ebay with a 75k buy-it-now price. Just one more thing that does not add up about this car. I would stay away from this car if I was a potential buyer.

The car did sell. I don't know what it sold for and the buyer wanted to keep it between him and my brother-in-law, so I have no way of finding out.

Blown525, he did have a true 100K offer from a guy. It was not something he or I made up. The guy ran into some financial problems, and he was forced to withdraw his offer. Just because some people like you don't see any value in it, doesn't mean everybody sees that way. To some people it is just worthless gutted six cylinder car and to some others it is the Holy Grail of car finds because it has VIN #1.

As for why the motor and trans was not listed in the description, I think they just forgot to write it in there.

Car would bring 150k at Barrett after resto. In a good market I would say 250k....

Car would bring 150k at Barrett after resto. In a good market I would say 250k....
Maybe if you spent 100k on the resto. You guys gotta stop smoking that stuff.

Hi 68 Ragtop . I think it has a price because it is a vintage. :D

100k resto= 30k actual labor, 70k keeping the car long enough to make you think they worked the whole time.

:thumbsup::D100k resto= 30k actual labor, 70k keeping the car long enough to make you think they worked the whole time.

100k resto= 30k actual labor, 70k keeping the car long enough to make you think they worked the whole time.


$30k would only start the restoration on this car. NOS parts would be high as well. Easy $100k resto.

Yea if it was extremely overpriced.

does the new owner plan to restore the car back to original condition?

Yea if it was extremely overpriced.

You obviously don't know what it takes to restore a car. Have you ever had a camaro fully rotisserie restored with all new NOS parts?

JOE58, I have no idea what his plans are. I don't even know who bought it.

1969 RS/SS DROPTOP, I'm with OK69 on this. That would be overpriced unless you went out and bought all NOS parts and had a very pricey restorer take his precious time to restore it. Why would you go out and buy all NOS sheetmetal when you could buy a gutted '67 donor car a lot cheaper and know its going to fit without hours cutting, hammering, and welding? NOS parts are not the only parts out there. There are many quality reproduction parts out there that not even an expert could tell the difference just by looking at it. To me, a straight donor car would be the way to go. ;)

a gutted 67 donor car is probably a gutted donor because it is used up, bondo, rust etc. Are you going to cut the 1/4's off and re install ? Are you just going to rebody ? Yes you could buy a clean 67 and start from there for sheetmetal but there is still a bunch of labor to do it without simply transferring tags. Then we get to the discussion of at what point is it a rebody....

a gutted 67 donor car is probably a gutted donor because it is used up, bondo, rust etc. Are you going to cut the 1/4's off and re install ? Are you just going to rebody ? Yes you could buy a clean 67 and start from there for sheetmetal but there is still a bunch of labor to do it without simply transferring tags. Then we get to the discussion of at what point is it a rebody....

Finding a '67 with little to no rust shouldn't be that hard if you know where to look. Yes, I'm talking cut the quarters off and floor pans out and weld them onto the other car. Unbolt the front end from the donor and bolt onto the other car. A rebody is where you remove the VIN from one vehicle and put it onto another. Changing sheetmetal from one car to another is in NO way a rebody. The structure, the pillars, the roof, the taillight panel, the doors, most of the floor, the rocker panels, etc. is still there on this car, so there is no reason anyone should ever have to remove the VIN and illegally transfer it to another car. Restorations involving extensive sheetmetal replacement are very common.

In fact, some of the most expensive cars in the world have been restored by using parts and panels that the restorer made himself. For many of those cars there are no NOS parts available. So when they make the parts and they are in no way from that period but replicate the original exactly, does that hurt the value of the car? I don't know about you but restored Duesenberg's and other rare old cars fall into this category, and I have never seen one of them lose value because of handmade non-NOS parts.

If you are going to spend 100k on a resto, you might as well buy 2 or 3 cars in todays market. Those cars will be as good as the one that had 100k spent on it.

I doubt the value of this 6cyl camaro would be compromised by the use of quality reproduction or mint used parts, as long as the final product has nice gaps, and proper fit and finish of all panels. The use of all NOS parts is in many cases, unwarranted, especially with new stampings that fit much better than the old repro parts. But, I don't think cutting the quarters off of another nice original camaro is a good plan either.

The problem with using repop or donor parts on a resto like this is that it takes away from the unique features of this car. The real value of this car might not ever be able to be restored. I am sure that when this car left the factory it had little oddities about it that cars only had for a very short time. Little wrinkles in sheet metal that got changed over production run, changes in how the car was assembled,ect. The date code correct donor for this car would have to be one of the first 500 or so Camaros ever made to get the right details. I dont doubt that the experts on these cars will notice inccorect details. Maybe they changed the way they sprayed on the sound deadener inside the doors or 1/4 to a different pattern. Maybe all the early cars had an inspection mark that only appreared on the first 100 cars. Who knows,those things are lost forever on this car. A car like this needs to be restored to a microscopic level right down to the fingerprints of the original assembly line workers if possible. Maybe park outside the assembly plant and fill an air can with air from that location so you can have numbers matching air in the tires. Now thats a fitting restoration to #1 Camaro.