Over the years things get exaggerated and everyone talks about how they used to run 11's in the quarter mile so I thought I would share with you guys some facts about The Baldwin Motion and Nickey Cars from some road test articles that were done back in April of 67 and May of 69.

Background:

As most of you know Cheyrolet's largest PRODUCTION engine they put in the first gens was the 396 (actually it was a 402 in 69 but they called it a 396). The reason for this is that there was a GM corporation limit of 10lbs. per horsepower and the 375 Horse 396 just BARELY made it under that self imposed limit.

Nickey Chevrolet out of Chicago along with the Nickey/Bill Thomas shop out of Anaheim CA. however would replace the production stock engine with a 427/425 Horse engine and in effect would make you a factory hot rod.

One such car was road tested in the APRIL 67 edition of Popular HOT RODDING. The best street tire quarter mile time for this car was 14.22 @ 105.60 MPH (absolutely no traction!!) BUT with slicks the car ran a best of 11.43 @ 124.73 (WOW!!!).

Interestingly enough the car started out life as a 67 SS350 with NO GAUGES (it didn't have a tach after Nickey modifid it either!!). The car had a close ratio 4 speed and headers that Nickey normally installed on these conversions. It was also equipped with a DUAL carter AFB setup with a tri-power or four barrel set up available as options.

The car weighed 3325 lbs. and the TOTAL cost was $4,000.00. Nickey WARRANTIED the engine for 90 days and the FACTORY GM warranty covered the rest of the car!! This car looked VERY stock and could play the sleeper role pretty easily!!!

The second BIG TIME factory HOT ROD builder was Baldwin Motion out of Baldwin New York. In the MAY 1969 issue of DRAG RACING, a Baldwin Motion ALL ALUMINUM ZL-1 427 69 SS Camaro was road tested.

Baldwin would generally use 396 equipped SS's for their conversions. They did the same in this case by removing the 396/375 horse engine (where is that motor now?) and replaced it with a ZL-1. These cars were different somewhat than the Nickey cars because they couldn't play the sleeper role as easily.

The car had a test weight of 3101 lbs!!! The 427 was actually lighter than a 327. It was equipped with 4.11 gears (stock 3.55 's were replaced) and a Turbo 400 transmisson. The car also had a Holley 950 CFM Holley THREE barrel carb with mechanical secondaries, Hooker headers, traction bars, and Mallory ignition.

Now for the times. The car with the Motion supplied L70-15 street tires (remember these?) ran a best of 13.0 @ 115 MPH (no traction again!!). BUT, the car with slicks ran a best of 11.48 @ 122MPH (Awesome!). Furthermore, in the test it got a average of 9 miles per gallon. Not bad for a car that had 575 estimated gross horsepower!!!

There you go. Tell me again that story about how you ran 11's in the old days!!!

Doug,

Good suggestion. I posted it on the high performance modifications section on that board.

Thanks!!

By the way Doug, look at Joel Rosen's response to my post on the nastyz28 site.


[This message has been edited by sr71bb (edited 03-16-2000).]

If you post this question over on www.nastyZ28.com (http://www.nastyZ28.com) also, Joel Rosen himself visits the page from time to time, and you might get some comments from "The Man".

From what I have read, they were a handful!Too bad we can't go back in time, and pick out exactly what we want.

Update: I just saw the post by him, although I don't think a pink polka dotted one would fly too well. But hey, if you had the money to buy one, and it's what you wanted, they built it for you!

[This message has been edited by Doug Garland (edited 03-16-2000).]

Any car painted the way Motion did them had to be fast!!

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Hugger Orange & white 69 Camaro with supercharged 350, Tremec TKO, and 3.73 12-bolt

Very interesting post. I have a 69 camaro with a 396(402). I wish it had the Bladwin conversion. Of course, I probably couldn't have afforded the car when I bought it 2 years ago if it had it. I wonder what those cars are worth now? How about others like COPO and Yenko?

Well, it all depends if you have any documentation to prove if the car is legit. As far as price range, it is hard to tell, as so few of these cars sell. The Yenko Camaros, in pretty good shape (mild restoration), can run anywhere from $50,000, on up to just shy of $100,000 (wild restoration). It all depends on the buyer. The Motion cars are real hard to tell, as they rarely sell, due to their low numbers, but their prices fall pretty close to those of the Yenko Camaros. The COPO Camaros are quite a bit cheaper, with restored examples anwhere from $30,000-$50,000. If you'd care to see these cars in person, check out this link: Supercar Registry (http://www.yenko.net)

Note: the prices of these cars are hard to guess, and just that...GUESSES! These prices are pretty general, and are close, but maybe not exact. So please don't flame me if you disagree!

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Rob Clary
'70 LS-6 Chevelle
Numerous Yenkos
Interested in COPOs, Yenkos or other dealer built muscle cars then go here: www.yenko.net (http://www.yenko.net)


[This message has been edited by Chevy454 (edited 03-17-2000).]

Thanks for the info.

I am under the impression that the 69 396 was at 396 cid but it was not until 1970 that the displacement was increased to 402cid. Who's got input.

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Tim
67 ss/rs, MODIFIED
http://www.geocities.com/sixt7ssrs/
IM - sixtsevnss

They're restoring a Balwin Motion 69 on 'Dreamcar Garage' on Speedvision. I think they have some information on the Speedvision web site.

I have had personal experience with 2 super cars in the last 15 years. In 1980 we purchased a 71 motion Chevelle SS. This car was quite unusual in that it had a dealer installed 454, turbo 400 and a 456 geared 12 bolt in a SS body with a bench seat and colum shifter. That car ran 12.30s in street trim, not bad but far from the stries that float around these days. The secound car however was a 68 Dickie Herrall Nova. This car was origionally shipped through COPO to Fred Gibbs Chevrolet and then to Dick Herrell Performance Center in Kansas City where it was transformed into a real Super Car. 427, Full maunual powerglide, 456 geared 12 bolt with c clip eliminators and a 3 piont roll bar. We never ran this car in the 1/4 but it ran 6.90s in the 1/8th. You do the math. If only I had not let that one get away.

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sixtsevnssrs, you are correct' early '69 cars had the true 396 396. it was only the very late production cars (remember there was no 70 model due to the restyle in 70 1/2 and they kept selling the 69 model in 70) that had the new for 70 402 396.


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To see a pic of my car, click here... pages.prodigy.net/mtbmtb/rf396ss.jpg (http://pages.prodigy.net/mtbmtb/rf396ss.jpg)

Just to clarify...
1969 models were built until the first week of November, 1969.(or so)
Engines built with a three letter suffix are likely to be 402's. Kurt S. might shed some light on the subject.
The biggest engine you could get installed at the FACTORY, was the 427. Only in '69 were the COPO 427 cars built.
The first '70 was built about Feb. 15th, 1970, hence the 1970 1/2 moniker.
In 1970, Motion-Baldwin would build you a car guaranteed to run in the 11's. They took cars and put LS6 crate engines in them, and made some other mods. If you couldn't run 11's, they would send their driver to run the car. If it still wouldn't run 11's, they'd buy the car back.