I just bought a 69 camaro v-8 coupe that is a good project car. While I have been building my 67 camaro I have played around with the idea of building a 302 clone car and decided to do it when I ran accross the 69 I just bought. I don`t want an exact 302. I want to build a little bit of a different one that suits my taste, but still is a 302 cubic inch motor. I am not familiar with the principles of the smaller v-8`s. I have dealt with mostly the larger one`s in my time. I have just bought the new Holley Stealth Ram for it, so I want to go with a fuel injection on it. I also have an ati procharger that I bought a couple of years ago that I want to use on this motor as well. What I need to know is some recomendations on aluminum heads and cam size. I do have a compcams 282s laying around that is slightly used. I also will be putting a 6 speed manual transmission in it and would like to have a recomendation on rearend gear size for a 12 bolt posi.
Also, I don`t plan on keeping the car after it is finished, so to let everyone know it will be for sale. Although, it won`t come cheap.
thanks guys

No comment!! pdq67

Also, I don`t plan on keeping the car after it is finished, so to let everyone know it will be for sale. Although, it won`t come cheap.
(***scratches head***) Huh? I'm with pdq67 on this one.....no comment.

hmmm, not quite the response I expected to hear from this site

Originally posted by makoshark:
hmmm, not quite the response I expected to hear from this site Well it just seems like you will be going through a lot of money, blood, sweat, and tears to build a 302 that's not really a highly desired engine (for non-Z/28 camaros, even Z/28 clones), to turn around and sell it. I guess I'm trying to say that the 302 isn't goint to be as valuable to a prospective buyer if its: (1) not a true DZ engine and (2) if it's not in a true Z/28 car.
For example, I think most guys would rather buy a clone that has a good running 350 in it than a "302 clone". Externally, they will look the same, neither the 350 nor the "302 clone" will say DZ on the block.

Unless you already have the 302 parts, it would be much easier and cheaper to build up a stout 350, 383, or 400. It's your car, I don't want to steer you from your dreams, just giving my 2 cents.

As far as aluminum heads, I put AFR 190s on my 302 and it runs great. Some will say the 190s are too big, but I chose those for future room to grow, for when I build something with more cubes (hint...hint).

As far as cam, it really depends on what you want the car to be best at, i.e. everyday driver, weekend warrior, full drag racer, pump gas friendly, etc...

yes it can be costly if buying all this stuff new. I am a bargain hunter and I buy stuff whether I need it at the moment or not if I can get a good deal on it. this is my hobby and I enjoy it thoroughly. there is nothing wrong with making a little money at it too. I will have alot less than normal in this car and as of right now it is for sale, but I just may keep it. who knows.
I want to build something different. I just got down building a 383 with a TPI for my 67. I wanted a good strong street motor with lots of torque for it, so that`s what I came up with.
But now I want to build this 69 with a different flavor with lots of rpms. I am just a bit confused with this motor on head size and cam size with having the super charger on it.

There was an article in one of the mag's years ago where they built a 302 clone and added a blower or whatever and ran the sucker around the one lap or whatever. Mighta been the Hot Rod tour???

Do a search on it and learn what they did.

I ran a homemade 301 and loved it but it was nothing like what you are trying to do!!!

The best modern Z- motor is a 400 block with a 283/302 crank in it for a 320's motor!! Just build the sucker to be able to run, and for more then the quarter mile, at 8,000rpm+ and you will have it!!

And an old Isky Z-30 solid cam with at least 11 to 1 CR. is not far off the mark!!!!

pdq67

PS., a friend of mine had a '69 Z and told me that it was great running across the bottom road north of town at 7,000 rpm+ with 3.73's at 140!

I was just on that road last weekend in my corn-popper!!

Originally posted by makoshark:
yes it can be costly if buying all this stuff new. I am a bargain hunter and I buy stuff whether I need it at the moment or not if I can get a good deal on it. this is my hobby and I enjoy it thoroughly. there is nothing wrong with making a little money at it too. I will have alot less than normal in this car and as of right now it is for sale, but I just may keep it. who knows.
I want to build something different. I just got down building a 383 with a TPI for my 67. I wanted a good strong street motor with lots of torque for it, so that`s what I came up with.
But now I want to build this 69 with a different flavor with lots of rpms. I am just a bit confused with this motor on head size and cam size with having the super charger on it. If it's something you enjoy doing and are going to make some money from it then, by all means go for it. How could you go wrong?

pdq67, mentioned 11:1 pistons, but 11:1 pistons and superchargers don't go very well together from what I understand. If you're going to definitely run the supercharger, I'm pretty sure that you're going to have to keep the compression low, like 8:1.

If you don't go with a supercharger, then take pdq's advice and go with 11:1 compression. Those small cube motors really need the compression to make them run.

I believe there are cams out there that are designed specifically for supercharged engines, but I'm no expert at that.

As far as heads go, I think you should be fine with something in the 160, 180, or even 190 range. I don't think I would go any higher than 190s. Also, you would be fine with 2.02" intake and 1.60" exhaust valves.

You'll have to determine what compression you want to run so that you can come up with a combustion chamber size and piston to give you your desired compression.

I'm sure there are guys here running similar setups, so hopefully they will chime in.

From what I have read, heads are always the limiting factor when supercharging an engine. "Correctly" supercharged engines usually run heads that would ordinarilly be "too big" for that size engine n/a. I don't want to give you any specific cc numbers, because I don't want to guess and be wrong if I have never gone that route. Just remember that a supercharger is trying to force air into your engine, and it will need larger ports to accomidate(sp?) the massive amount of air.

Part of the less than enthusiastic response you are getting is because of the dreaded "Z28 CLONE" in your title. There is a great deal of prejudices againt clones, especially combined with the desire to build it to sell. It implies perhaps unintentionally that it will be sold as a Z28 later on. Perhaps to increase the perceved value. This applies to Z's, Yenkos, COPO's and ZL1 clones, although the ZL1's are impossible to clone and pass off as real as the VIN's are known and published.

As long as a clone is never passed off intentionally as a real car there shouldn't be any real problem with building a car anyway you want.

One of my questions would be, is when is a Z28 clone, a Z28 clone? A Camaro Coupe with a 302 is not a Z28, A Camaro with a 302 and a six speed transmission is not a Z28, a Camaro with rally Stripes, and Z28 emblems is not a Z28. These are cars inwhich the sum of the parts does not equal a Z28.

Another would be, why? A 302 is about the last motor anyone would select if they were building a street car. Their worth is only apparent when matched with an original car. They are fine engines for their intended purpose, which is high RPM road racing. They have no torque or HP below 3500 rpm. Don't make a good weekend cruiser. Doesn't add any real value to a clone, especially if your going to put aftermarket intakes, carbs etc. into it.

You can make a more fun to drive car with a 350, or a 383 or 400.

Just my $.02 worth.

thanks for your opinion guys on my build up. my questions though were directed to point me towards helping me decided what parts would best fit what I want to do. I can see that some people on here are more worried about bashing someone`s goals rather than help them. I have no intentions of trying to pass this car off as a REAL Z/28. I am not a dishonest person. I just have an idea that I want to put together and have fun with. I guess I`ll start calling manufacturers and get their recomendations. thanks to the people that actually tried to help

Nobody's bashing your plans, it's just that you haven't given a whole lot of info on your goals other than it's going to be a Z28 clone, with a 302 and a 6 speed. I can throw a set of stripes and emblems on a 6 cylinder with a powerglide and call it a Z28 (I've seen it on Ebay).

What's your end use, week end cruiser, 1/4 mile drag car, SCCA road racer, Street light racer (also frowned on along with clones)?

Do you care about having 6" of vacuum at idle, and a 1200RPM idle speed or do you want something that will idle smooth and pull 15" of vacuum?

What kind of chassis are you going to run, Airshocks with N50/15 tires out back and E70/15s in front, or a lowered canyon carver with 18"x8 wheels.

If you've got engine ideas, throw them out, you'll get all the feedback you want, some good, some bad, but that's how you get the best info.

ok, well thanks. I will try and give you my plans for this car. it will not be a weekend cruiser type car. that is what my 67 is for. nor will it be a drag or street racer type of car. I guess it will be along the lines of a road course car that can handle the street. suspension wise I was thinking along the lines of a front coilover setup like detroit speed sells and possibly a custom 4 link in the rear, minitubbed and tied together with frame connectors, late model camaro/vette brakes on all 4 corners and a roll cage. I want the motor to achieve the highest vaccum possible. I am not hear looking for horsepower and torque numbers. I just want suggestions on a solid roller cam, aluminum head size and rearend gear size. for the heads, I was thinking along the lines of afr 190`s. I have the 195`s on my 67, but wasn`t quite sure if the 190`s would be too large for the 302, although I will be putting the supercharger on it. would a 3:73 gear be enough gear for this setup. keep in mind I would like to keep this car as streetable as possible.

I might recomend a more typical naturaly aspirated 302 IMHO. If you want a roller cam, I like the Comp XR288HR10 Part number 12-433-8. It realy wakes up the bottom end without compromising the top end. I have not actualy tried it but it looks awesome on DD2K as compared to the stock configuration. Obvoiusly you would need all the parts to match up with it including the dual oversize valvesprings, etc. Better heads are sure to help.

Apples to apples it has 50-60 Ft-Lbs more torque between 2000 to over 4000 RPM and it has more torque and power anywhere below 6300 RPM. More peak HP too. Add some better AFR 190's and 450 HP is shown on the graph. Nice combo to try if I ever get tired of driving around with the stocker smile.gif Probably need a very stout valvetrain to turn those RPM's though. Man. what a ride that would be :D

-Mark.

I ran the combo I`m thinking about on dd2000 and came up with over 800 hp at around 8000 rpm and I don`t remember the torque, but it peaked at 6000 rpm. I ran afr190 heads, but didn`t have a cam file, so I just used a high performance dual purpose cam on the software. it`s definately a screamer, but I am still debating how streetable it really could be. seems like if it saw alot of street time at cruising rpms, then I might be having spark plugs fouling out all of the time. I still really want to try this setup though.

Imho, a good streetable engine is a 2000 to 6000 rpm engine!

One with about 9.5 to 1 CR. or so, maybe 10 with good aluminum heads.. And a street cam like a CC 282S solid, but in the design you want, be it hy, hy-roller, solid or solid roller!! And there are better, modern designs nowadays vs the older 282S, but it's spec's will get you in the ballpark...

But the thing here is streetability so there goes superchargers, high compression and a "balls out" cam!! Gas can be used but the biggest hassle with it is feeding the bottles!!!

Now don't get me wrong here b/c even Big Red is street driven so you kinda have to use your own judgement on how little streetability you will put up with and still keep it on the street...

Good luck with whatever you end up doing...pdq67

I agree with you pdq67 on a good street motor within 6000 rpm. I built my 67 motor to be very stong in that range. although, this is something I am wanting to try and do. I have the 282s cam and have driven it and loved it, but I don`t really think that cam has what it would take for an 8000 rpm supercharged 302.