Anyone out there try beehive springs on the standard street AFR195's? If so which parts-springs, retainers and cups did you use?..I am having trouble finding sizes that work..calling Comp did not help as they seemed to be just guessing.

i am running afr 195 with same cam XE282R, AFR recommneded running 1.530 dual springs and keep it under 7k,,

ZDLD17,

If you are running 1.53" OD springs, then you must have had the stock AFR 1.45" spring pockets cut for the bigger springs.

I was wondering if anyone got the beehives to work with the stocK 1.45 spring pockets.

Actually I requested the 1.4 springs as I was running them with current cam , AFR recommended for XE 282R to have a larger springs 1.5,, thus they would assemble it all together and cut my heads to cc chamber I wanted .. When I asked about HydrRev Kit,, salesman indicated that if I would stay below 7k ,, with the 1.5 springs set at 145# closed pressure,, I would not need revkit...They build them so I went with it.. Turn Key out the door was 16 Franklins.

If it is a XE282R (and not an XR282HR), then that sounds like a solid roller. The lifters are not as heavy as a hydraulic roller, thus less of a need for the rev kit which keps the heavy roller lifters from flying off the cam lobe at rpm. Hydraulic rollers have more problems reving.

Did it again,, cam # is XR282HR, I used the light weight rollers

I don't know if I'm making progress on this subject or not. I called Comp Cams and was told to use spring locator part number #4712-16. They have a 1.4 outer diameter and are to be used with a .690 inner spring diameter. Sorta matches the 1.45 AFR pocket size and the .885 inner diameter of the beehive spring. Otherwise, I'm looking into custom made spring locators. I have the beehive spings, part number #26918-16 and 10 degree retainers, pn #794, here waiting, but the locators are back ordered through Summit. Won't know if if all goes together until the locators arrive. By the way, I'm planning on ditching the Hydra-Rev kit at that time.

Why are you ditching the Hydra-rev kit? Is it hurting anything? Isn't it an extra measure of insurance?

I didn't noticed a whole lot of change in my upper RPM limit with the Hydra-Rev. Plus it's a pain to put in and take out. But mainly, if the beehives do produce the intended results, I want to know it's them and not the Hydra-Rev kit. Then again, if I can't turn 6500 rpm with the new hydraulic roller and behives alone, it'll go back in.

I made the switch to the beehives on my 383 and valve float went from 6100 to 6600, so they do work. I also just left the regular spring locator that came with my trickflow heads, so there is nothing holding the bottom of the spring, but they dont move around. Comps hyd. rollers use very agressive lobes and tend to float them sooner. If you want a hyd. roller that revs get a Lunati, way more rpm.

My concern with the beehives is that if you break a spring, unlike with the extra insurance of a dual spring set up, you will destroy your cylinder.

How much extra rpm do you think going with titanium retainers would give with the standard springs?

If I am fighting valve float with a mild hydraulic roller, more than adequate valve springs, and a rev kit, how the heck do they justify the bigger profile HR cams, especially on a big block with heavy valves? I imagine that you could only rationalize if the bigger cam was in a bigger CI engine so that peaker power was never more than 5500-5800rpm tops.

I'd like to see titanium roller lifters. Hey if you already have $400 in band aids (beehives in rev kit), why not fix the source of the problem?

67RS502: do you run a rev kit with the your 383?

67RS502,

which beehive are you running on your 383..comp has 3 or 4 part #'s at the moment. I thought I recall that you were running #12620. These springs have 155lbs seat pressure and open at 377 lbs. That is a lot for your mild cam. What installed height/ seat pressure are you running them at?

What size are your spring pockets in your heads?

Do you run a rev kit, too?

Sorry it took me so long to reply, but I was out of town this weekend.

I wouldnt worry too much about breakin them, because thats what some new
cars use.

On a regular spring you'll gain about 100rpm from what I've heard, not much,
with titanium ret.

What rpm are you floatin at?

Just because a cam is bigger, doesnt mean that its gonna float. Its the lobe
intensity that matters (springs and lifter brand), not the "size" of the cam.
My 502 cam is 252/263dur. 612"/611" lift, and floats at 7000,
(with regular springs) my 383 is 224/224, and would float at
6100 before the spring swap, and 6600 after. Yes my 502 has way heavier and
massive valve train then the 383, but can rev because of the softer (lunati) ramps.
I have it chipped at 6800rpm, shift around 6700-6800 (peak power is 6200)
The 383 cam (comp) is very aggressive, duration at 200 is 157, and lift is 568",
so the ramp speed is way faster on it. Also I'm running Crane lifters on the 502,
which are good for 7200rpm, and the 383 has comp lifters - which I wish I didnt buy.

Carbon fiber lifters would be cool, wish someone would come out with some...

Comp #918 springs, they are they are 125#seat /318#open. Installed at 1.85"
from what I remember, because I had to use a bunch of shims. Spring pockets
are around 1.55-1.57" from what I remember. I'm using the locators that came
with the heads "big", so nothing locates the bottom of the spring, its kept in
place by the top of the spring - like a pyramid.

No I dont use rev kits, as they are expensive, a pain, and dont show much rpm
gain if any... not worth the $ or hassle for me.

I'll have to check all the #s I gave you at home, since I'm at work now, as I'm
going off the top of my head.

I have the 282hr cam in a 355 with 11:1cr with 6.250 rod. I am using cast iron Bowtie 2 head with 2.02I, 1.55E and 184cc Intake runners. Exhaust has been professionally ported. The beehive springs do help SOME, but nowhere near what Comp advertises. With my previous 929 comp spring my rpm limit before valvle float was 6300. With beehive and AFR rev kit, its now 6800.

Everyone that I've talked to usually pics up 400-500rpm with the beehives.
This depends on what youre upgrading from, I went from the 987 springs
to the beehives and picked up 500rpm. I'm sure if someone had a better
spring and valve control to begin with, they would see less of a difference.
If youre floatin the valves, and want more rpm, I'd suggest staying away
from Comp as their lobes are too aggressive and will float sooner.

67RS502, Comp has an new beehive, #26120 that has a 1.445 diameter, 155lb on the seat with an installed height of 1.880 and 377pounds open pressure. The 26918 beehive is 130 lbs on the seat with an installed height of 1.800 and 318 open pressure, and a 1.06 diameter.

I agree, the rev kits do little to improve valve float.

I have a comp cam with a similar profile to yours, and similar springs specs when you had the problem, so I would go with the 918's if it helps you, otherwise I would go with the heavier 120's. I wonder if my high boost is exacerbating problems, though.

Jaybird: I consider 500rpm very significant as it would put me past where I need to rev. I would be happy.

I also heard from another person that those with an MSD ignition may be experiencing high RPM miss (rather than valve float) if the ignition is not grounded directly to the block. I never heard about grounding ignitions directly to the block though.

Good luck. However fo rme only 500 rpm increase with the beehive and rev kit was somewhat disappointing. I'm glad t oget 500 more rpm. Better than nothing, just not what the comp guy I spoke with had told me.

I should have yanked the hyd roller out and put a street solid roller and turned it 7500 like I wanted. Oh well, live and learn smile.gif Good luck with you build.

I talked to a CompCams phone jockey yesterday to try to get some advice..totally useless..he was obviously just reading from a chart and was actually recommending slightly lighter springs than what I had to address the valve float. At this point I am making it rule to only do business with small companies that can provide friendly expert tech support. I'm done with trying to seek advice on my engine part tech issues with a 16-year old kid or a 60-year old grandma that some times answers the tech lines.

I did talk to AFR about their springs, and they felt that I may need to bump the seat pressure way up because of the high boost. They recommended going to their #8015 spring which is 140 lbs on the seat, 350 lbs open with a rate of 350. To make this change, I will have to cut my spring pockets for the 1.53 OD springs, and replace all the valves with slightly longer ones. Since my AFR heads only have a few hours on them, this quite an additional expense.

Can anyone exlain to me why I need to go to slightly longer valves when you go to a heavier spring?

Do you think it would be worth it to go to titanium valves? I know they are pricey, but it should have a big effect on valve float, perhaps?

Just do the beehives if they will give you the rpm you want.
What rpm is valve float now? Look into the boost thing, and if
it affects valve float / rpm, and then choose a spring.
You would need longer valves because of the a taller installed height,
for coil bind. Titanium valves are lighter, but arnt gonna make as big
a "mass" difference as the beehives.

I asked AFR about people using the beehives on their 195 heads and he said some folks are but advised strongly against it, because of the risk of breakage and destroying the cylinder with the single spring. Of course he wants to sell me his parts.

My current concern is that the 918 beehives are only 130 on the seat, not much different than the 125 lbs I have now, if my issue is the high boost overpowering the seat pressure.