View Full Version : 68 396SS Suspension and Steering Upgrade Project for Betsy
68Betsy May 12th, 09, 06:09 PM Hello all, I am starting a project and want to document every detail for everyone. I hope I help someone who finds themselves in my situation someday.
To start off, I have a 68 396/325 4spd Muncie convertible named, Betsy, I purchased about 3 months ago from a dealer in New Jersey. I think the upper and lower control arms, shock, coil are original as with the manual steering setup. Two days ago I was driving down the highway at 70 MPH when the front left tire blew. I have no idea what exact damage was done, but before I find out I am just going to replace the suspension and steering anyway since the Idler Arm is leaking, the steering box is shot, and the front suspension I think was already semi warped. The following is what I will be documenting:
1. Manual to Power Steering conversion 396 w/o AC
2. Manual Steering setup to Power Rack and Pinion
3. Upper/Lower Control Arms to Tubular DSE with QA1 shocks
It seems quite simple right now, but here is a list of my initial worries
for 1.
--I have 3" Hooker headers and it seems like a power box won't clear the headers, but i think there is a way to attach the box to the rear bolt of the lower control arm which removes the worry for header clearance
--I have bought everything except the pulley and the power steering pump. I will get the pump first, but I am not sure which pulley will match either the keyway or pressed pump and which way is better... can anyone help me with this?
for 2.
--do i have enough header clearance or do I have to change the header routing to ensure clearance of the rack and pinion setup.
for 3.
--is there a way to install the QA1 setup in the DSE arms without any welding due to the way the shock fits in the lower arm? I think I figured this out when I purchased the arms but we will see!
Here is a list of the items I bought today from year one and should arrive within 2-3 weeks:
Unisteer Power Rack and Pinion
Master Cylinder
Power Steering brackets, hoses, box(?)
QA1 coil and adjustable shocks for BB
DSE upper and lower control arms with Delalum bushings
I will have a more complete list when I can find the documentation.
Also I have the pix here, I will post them immediately after I post this.
I hope this will help people.
68Betsy May 12th, 09, 07:23 PM left front tirehttp://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n158/hooliganlv/DSCF1109.jpg
front of the left side front subframe coil and control armshttp://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n158/hooliganlv/DSCF1113.jpg
brake reservoirhttp://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n158/hooliganlv/DSCF1114.jpg
manual steering box with small header clearancehttp://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n158/hooliganlv/DSCF1115.jpg
top side of upper left control armhttp://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n158/hooliganlv/DSCF1116.jpg
steering column at firewallhttp://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n158/hooliganlv/DSCF1119.jpg
damage done to body by blown radial tirehttp://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n158/hooliganlv/DSCF1120.jpg
dirty little idler armhttp://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n158/hooliganlv/DSCF1121.jpg
left side outer tie rod and coil and control armshttp://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n158/hooliganlv/DSCF1123.jpg
right outer tie rod and portion of the Pitman arm, coil and RUST. uck, might need a front subframe someday or maybe blow the rust off this onehttp://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n158/hooliganlv/DSCF1128.jpg
68Betsy May 13th, 09, 09:42 AM Here is a complete list of components I purchased. This should be the all encompassing list minus a power steering pump and pulley. I bought a new air cleaner and 14x3 drop base just for fun... obviously those things are not needed for the conversions I am attempting. Also note the need for the spanner wrench and another header gasket just in case i need to lower them out of the way on the driver side.
AIR CLEANER SET 65-72 BIG BLOCK OPEN ELEME
94.50 UPS 05/12/09 BO S HD .000
1 ACB396 14"AIR CLEANER BASE BLACK 65-72 CHEVROLET BIG BLOCKS
.00 UPS 05/12/09 BO CMP 3.000
1 ACL396 14" AIR CLEANER LID CHROME 65-72 CORRECT OPEN STYLE
.00 UPS 05/12/09 BO CMP 2.000
1 A212CW AC DELCO AIR FILTER VARIOUS GM
.00 UPS 05/12/09 BO CMP 3.000
1 DE22 TUBULAR UPPER CNTRL ARM PR 67-9 F/68-74 X
685.00 UPS 05/12/09 B/O 20.000
1 1C59-031201 LWR CNTRL ARM STK SPNGS-PR 67-9 GM F & 68-74 NOVA
530.12 UPS 05/12/09 B/O 25.000
1 QA24 PRO COIL SYSTEM BIG BLOCK VARIOUS GM MODELS
449.00 UPS 05/12/09 B/O 30.000
1 T114W SPANNER WRENCH
23.35 UPS 05/12/09 B/O 1.000
1 RW65 PWR STEER PUMP ADJ BRKT BB 67-8 CAM,65-8 IMP,68 NOVA
50.35 UPS 05/12/09 B/O 2.000
1 RW1461 PWR STRG PMP CRADLE BRKT 67-8 CAMARO & 65-9 IMPALA
80.95 UPS 05/12/09 B/O 5.000
1 NG1114 MASTER CYLINDER-NEW
86.35 UPS 05/12/09 B/O 10.000
1 MRG7654G MR GASKET HDR INSTALL KIT 396-454 BBC ROUND HEADERS
26.95 UPS 05/12/09 B/O 1.000
1 801054001 POWR RACK & PINION KIT-BLK 67-69 CAMARO, 68-74 NOVA
589.50 UPS 05/13/09 PICKED 70.000
1 BG111 POWER BRAKE BOOSTER VARIOUS GM APPLICATIONS
215.10 UPS 05/13/09 PICKED 15.000
Mkelcy May 13th, 09, 10:23 AM What prompted your decision to go with the rack, rather than an upgraded steering box and power steering pitman arm? Was it header clearance or something else? I ask, because the reviews of the rack and pinion conversions have been mixed and there are lots of folks running big blocks, headers and power steering boxes.
You might want to do some reading on the rack conversions here and on Pro-touring.com and Lateral-g.net.
68Betsy May 13th, 09, 11:51 AM well all my steering equipment now is rusted, shot and warped. i will need power steering so to do without the power steering box, increasing header clearance and overall decreasing the weight all seems just like a better idea. As it is, my manual steering box is about a quarter of an inch from the #1 header
jeepman1120 May 19th, 09, 03:23 PM I am have the same problem we bought our 67 with 396 4 speed and manual steering and its hard for the wife to drive so i started sourcing parts i have a stock power steering box and can't seem to find headers that will fit both jegs and summit said that patriot makes a set that is supposed to work put they don't so now i got yet another set of headers that don't work. I decided to look into the rack setup and am getting mixed reviews. i really don't want to spend the money if i am going to have the same problem. Let me now what you come up with
68Betsy May 19th, 09, 03:53 PM I just got the power rack and pinion and the power brake booster in today. The first two parts I received so far! Jeepman, as I was looking at the instruction manual for the Unisteer rack and pinion, it said "you are limited to specific shaped headers." It then goes on to say they used the Patriot H8012 headers on their big block. I have 2" Hooker headers and I don't see any issues yet since I will be removing that manual steering box. I will keep you posted. Everything else should arrive within the next 2 weeks and that is when I plan on installing everything.
In other news I purchased a:
DSE cast iron power steering pump
6" V-Groove pulley
mount
-6 pressure line
hose kit
...yesterday and should be arriving in 2 days.
FINALLY, after reading the Unisteer Pwr R&P instructions the last couple of items it looks like i will need are:
Unisteer Column Adapter kit (part #8020820)
BB 3-joint steering shaft (part #8050490)
Also the instructions say that we need to TRIM?? the steering shaft and DRILL?? through the u-joint yoke, and DIMPLE?? the column shaft?
Could anyone help me on this? I thought this was entirely bolt-on.
68Betsy May 19th, 09, 03:58 PM One more thing. The tool to attach the DSE power steering pump to the pulley is available to rent out at almost any auto parts store. The tool's ID number is KN2897
68Betsy May 20th, 09, 09:38 AM Okay, I talked to Unisteer today, and I do need those parts. So today looked like the last day of ordering parts. I can't wait until everything gets in so I can work on the car! Here are the final items:
Unisteer products from above
Baer proportioning valve (to proportion the pressure between the front and rear brakes) (part #2000035)
front brake line kit for 67-69 camaro with power disc brakes (part # RS4S)
i got the stainless steel version
68Betsy May 30th, 09, 12:45 AM UPDATE:
Today I removed the upper and lower control arms, coils and shocks, drag link, and tie rods. It was pretty straight forward, but with 40 year old bolts it was harder than I thought.
After removing the shock, busting the tie rod ball joint, and painfully removing the sway bar link, I attempted to use a spring compressor that would not fit into the LCA hole. I then went the old school way and put a 2.5 ton jack under the LCA (just enough without putting pressure on the LCA), busted the UCA ball joint, then slowly lowered the jack to the floor. It wasn't as scary as other people made it out to be. I thought it was simpler to do it with the jack than with a spring compressor.
The big problem I faced was trying to back out the LCA rear bolts. They were horrible! Since you can't reach the head of the bolt I opted to use a air hammer. I busted the idler arm ball joint to make room, and after a little air hammer session followed by a hammer and punch session, it came out.
Another issue is that I heard of people having to remove their headers to remove the UCA. That is untrue. You can leave your headers where they are.
Tomorrow I will take pics and then continue to remove the manual steering box and master cylinder. Then it will be INSTALL TIME! yay!
I tried to bolt on the power steering pump adapter to the block, but unplugged holes on a 40 yr old block will not let bolts go in. So i sprayed some WD-40 in the holes tonight, and I might have to do a little "finesse"ing to get them in tomorrow.
Then I will work on attaching the Unisteer 3 joint deal to the column adapter to the column. lol. I will then put the Unisteer R&P on as I put on the new LCA, UCA, and QA1s, and attach the brake booster and master cylinder. After that all that will be left is attaching the hose lines and bleeding the systems!
Wish me luck! You think I can do it all in 8 hours?
Tom P May 30th, 09, 08:27 AM I am have the same problem we bought our 67 with 396 4 speed and manual steering and its hard for the wife to drive so i started sourcing parts i have a stock power steering box and can't seem to find headers that will fit both jegs and summit said that patriot makes a set that is supposed to work put they don't so now i got yet another set of headers that don't work.
I just completed a conversion to PS on my '69 BB 396. The Patriot shorties will not work, however the Hooker Comp PN 2457 clears. The AGR box is an alternative and bolts in using factory hoses. Also, while you are in there, verify you have the correct frame stands and motor mounts. Now would be a good time to install new mounts. They will effect header clearance at the PS box
Here is a link to my post with photos
http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=157760
68Betsy May 30th, 09, 05:06 PM I put the column adapter and the 3 joint to the R&P today. My headers have plenty of clearance. I took the master cylinder off, and am having quite some trouble installing my new brake booster. it is the big one. it touches my valve cover and I can't find any wiggle room to tighten down the bolts to the firewall. I took it out for now. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to put that brake booster in efficiently?
68Betsy May 30th, 09, 05:08 PM oh also I attached the QA1 shocks to the DSE stock lower control arms. You have to drill out the T-bar holes in the LCA to 3/8 in order to put the new bolts in.
68Betsy Jun 1st, 09, 08:16 PM Well, this weekend I learned the hard way to convert to power steering. If you have a 396 and you plan on converting to power steering, the first thing you need to figure out is if you have a long or short water pump. 1967 and 1968 396's had short water pumps which can only put the alternator on the driver side (without doing your own fab work). So this limits which power steering pump you can use. The DSE TC pumps will not work (bolt on) due to the alternator clearance and pulley alignment unless you convert to a long water pump and get an passenger side alternator bracket or get a real small alternator and turn the DSE ps bracket spacers. Now my disclaimer is that I am only talking about V-belt setups and original 67-68 396's. The type of power steering pump that can fit are those tear drops which I think are Saginaw P. I think there is another type that can fit, but I am only positive on the teardrops. We will see when I put it all together, but you need a 2 groove crank pulley as well.
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