has anyone run this system yet?? any pros and cons??

Anyone? I have been trying to research this also.

Interesting thread over at Pro-touring on the subject:
http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53718

thanks.. guess i should have looked harder...
the pricing for retail is close to $2300.00 i had a customer price it from my speed merchant here in mobile...
i am really looking fwd to installing this on his 79 camaro 383 stroker..

Let us know how it works out.

i will...
it is a system i am interested about installing on my 67 vert as well...

my friend/customer has purchased one of these from a car show recently ..paid $2100. for it.. i am supposed to be installing it monday.. i will give you all an update on how long and how well it runs...the car currently has a 383 stroker w/750 edelbrock carb...runs strong now....guess we will see what happens....lol

Is that one of them thar plug-n-play type systems?

I think so, self tuning, supposedly good for up to 650hp by upping the fuel pressure to 60psi.

Hmm...well I guess we'll have to wait for some feedback.

Hmm...well I guess we'll have to wait for some feedback.

Yep hoping for that as well. Maybe some mags will do an article (hint hint Steve).

i will try to keep you all in the loop on the pros and cons of intalling this system...i hope it is as good as they say...

didn't car craft or hot rod do a write up on a few of these recently??

WE ARE INSTALLING SYTEM THIS MORNING... PICTURES WILL BE ADDED AS AN ATTACHMENT.. SO FAR INSTALL IS EASY..did not like running flexible fuel line whole length of car so we added a 3/8 metal fuel line to carry fuel....

here are some pics of the system as it is intalled...so far no hiccups...
see attachments

So...you just bolt it in and it knows the optimal fuel and spark parameters?

It will have a baseline tune that comes with it. It will learn your driving habits and the engines needs over time...Paul.

so far we are bolting up and making new fuel lines...i did not want to use rubber line the length of the car...
i know it has some parameters for startup.. you do have some adjustment for setting up from there..

That would make sense...it has to have some baseline settings then if it could revise them that would be cool for fuel anyway...not sure how it could manage spark aside from a preset tune.

as we move fwd..because we did not like using the lines provided..even though they are high pressure ..we prefer metal lines the length of the car so we are taking longer on the install than what the kit says it should take..5hr install has turned to 8.5 due to fabrications....we plan to be able to start the car this morning..
moderators if you want to move the posts to another forum???

This thread is in the EFI forum...where would you want it moved to?

well seeing as how earlier there was reference to pro touring.. good info there...

HOORAY!!! stystem installed...runs good..idling at 650rpm a/c on in drive

Any more updates

any more updates
x 2

Thanks for posting Kevin...I like this system. Not sure if it can support my 625HP motor, but I would like it to. I like the idea of making AFR changes on the fly, like if your making a sustained highway run, you can lean that sucker to 16:1 as your going...and then bring it back to 14:1...love it!

sorry i have not posted again...saw very little interest in what i had posted...
anyway! we have installation done...played with fuel pressure and air fuel trim .adjusted afr to 13.8 for now.....got rid of slight stumble on take off...idle is good and consistent..with or without a/c on..waiting for fred to tell how mileage has done increase or decrease....
customer stated that it runs alot crisper and is more driveable than the edelbrock 1406 he had on there...remenber this was a 383 stroker with a 700r4 trans...i drove before and after...have to say..as far as power it is good...also, let me tell you the guys at FAST tech center are great...give them good info,and they can really help you...system is slightly different than a gm fuel inj. system..i will be happy to send more pics or info on our install..thanks guys..i appreciate your interest and feedback..

one last thing... we purchased from radio shack a 9pin ibm cable extension cable so we could run the live data screen inside..to watch and adjust sytem...this helped us tremendously , befare it was alot of stop and go and adjustments...

Kevin, you may think there was little interest, However, I can assure you there are ALOT of people interested in this.

I for one. I dont know if it can support my HP and will keep looking. I here FAST and MASS FLO are the ones to look into unless you are good enough to build your own system from scratch. Let us know about mileage and perforamce issues if you have any.
Thanks!! :D

Definately interested here, thanks for sharing your install story and pics!

i appreciate your comments harley,
i am waiting for my friend/customer to drop by and let me know..if you have concerns for hp and fuel supply call fast, i believe their number is 877-334-8355,i do know that when we upped fuel pressure and adjusted afr the system was plenty rich...
i definitly will add more info in the next day or so...thanks again

ed, great looking car and what an awsome web presentation of your rebuild, i am not as good at computers to do anything like you have shown us..
i am very interested in how everything turns out on this install for selfish reasons...lol
i wanted a system that will work on my car as well....my rebuild is on a 67 convertible...coming along very slow as $$$ have dried up...so my goal of having her on the road by nov cruising the coast is very slim. ..lol

I wonder if this system could handle a shot of nitrous (dry shot) like newer FI cars ???? Something to think about :hhhmmm:

fella's keep my friend that has the fastEZ system in your prayers..he has diabetes that is kicking his butt...he has not driven it since he left the other day...
i will give you all more info as we get it on the camaro and the fast ez system...

I'll be thinking of him. I lost my oldest brother to Diabetes . Tell him I wish him well.

wayne, i am sorry to hear that your brother passed on...my stepdad lost to diabetes as well...when unchecked for too long it can be a real serious problem...
what part of mass. are you in??

I'm from the SE corner Fall River right near the RI border. It is a tuff disease My mother had it and my daughter has it sense she was 15. She's thirty two now. I worry about her everyday.

my prayers are with you and your family...diabetes and cancer ...two very tough diseases...
my oldest son live in worcester/grafton area....he is in process of buying a house with a garage so i can take him his 72 rs camaro...he actually turns 25 in sept....so grundy or hagerty will insure it for him then....

Anymore updates? Didthefuel pumpe etc work as well they were saying. Meaning no running out of fuel in corners etc.

dave? so far the only problems we had were because the pump was mouted higher than they recommended...using logic...we figured the fuel pick up tube came out of the top of tank we could mount it closer to the top of tank...starting was an issue..lowered pump down some and corrected the problem...
my friend has been having some serious issues with his diabetes and has not driven it as much as wanted to...
i will give more updates real soon,

Thank you for your input and I wish your friend the best of luck with his diabetes.

thanks dave, i know he reads this time to time...i know he appreciates all the good thoughts and prayers..

Interesting updates here on Fast EZ , I would like to see some back to back mileage testing against a streetable carb. I have a 3310 and would consider Fast if the mileage potential was better than 22+ mpg.

I had an earlier Edlebrock Proflow 3500 multiport, it gave equal mileage in my TriFive but was a dog on performance.

Sounds like this unit does not need a differant chip for longer duration cams? Keep the updates coming. Thanks.

i promise i will..as far as mileage and such..each case obviously will vary some..due to all variables...
i am anxious to know as well..fred had told me he was going to try to get it out and drive it...let you all know asap..
thanks for keeping up...i wanna know as well..it really is a nice system

Hey Kevin, any updates? I know your buddy is ill, so it may be a while.

Thanks
Vince

hey vince..will try to get the info asap...i am curious as well...

hey there all,
just a quick update on the fast system....the 79 camaro has been setting in my friends garage since june 18th...saturday he went out and it started easy and idled well...he drove it about 20 miles to a car show and then home...still on his first tank from when we installed system...will give mileage ratings and all as they happen...i am impressed the system ran well after sitting and no hiccups yet...

glad to hear that your frined is doing well!!!

what would the total cost of the system be?

i believe fred picked up his system for about $2000.00 .. if you install system yourself you can save money...

I wonder if this system could handle a shot of nitrous (dry shot) like newer FI cars ???? Something to think about :hhhmmm:

According to their instructions, no.

• Using nitrous oxide injection with the EZ-EFI™ system is not recommended. Keep in mind that the ECU is using closed loop fuel control. If will faithfully do all it can to keep the air/fuel ratio at the targets you’ve set. If additional fuel is delivered through a wet nitrous system, the ECU will see that the air/fuel ratio is richer than you’ve requested. The ECU will begin reducing the amount of fuel it is injecting itself to compensate for the extra fuel from the wet system. The result could be a dangerously lean condition. Technically, it would be possible to temporarily adjust the WOT air/fuel ratio target to a suitably rich mixture if a nitrous system was going to be used. However, this should only be attempted with great caution and is NOT recommended. Keep in mind that the richer air/fuel target will be in effect whether or not the nitrous system is activated. This can adversely affect how the engine runs and how the ECU learns.
• The EZ-EFI™ system is intended for naturally aspirated engines only – no turbos or superchargers.

http://www.fuelairspark.com/ezefi/

http://www.fuelairspark.com/Instructions/Files/FAST4-152%20-%20EZ-EFI.pdf

Hi just wondering if there are more updates on how the system is performing. Also wondering if you had to add in some type of fueltank vent or if the cap was good enough. Thanks.

i have sent fred an email asking him... as stated earlier he is battling diabetes so he has not driven the car as much as he would have liked,,,

Hopefully he's doing well. Thanks

thanks i will pass it along...from what i hear they are talking about doing something with his leg..

There was a post over on Lateral-g last week about a test on the FAST system. It did well. Do a search over there. I'm sorry but I do not know how to attatch a link.:beers:

There was a post over on Lateral-g last week about a test on the FAST system. It did well. Do a search over there. I'm sorry but I do not know how to attatch a link.:beers:

Here you go..

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=20078

2000+ grand for a TBI setup is ridiculous. I would not even ponder it. It is ancient technology and is not better than a carb other than you can change AFR depending on load.

No computer can learn by itself optimal settings period for fueling and spark it needs tuning. All OE computers control fueling using short term and long term trends to optimize fueling. After a few key cycles it will bias the fueling maps which it is possible to learn because it has no way to control spark but all basic PCM's do this. This is nothing special.

Modify an ls1 or lt1 computer to run it man. Seriously this is the only thing I would even consider. For the Lt1 all you need is a MAF ECT and o2's possibly maf to control fueling. It can be done without using the optispark. I would have to look into it more but you do not need to much to run it.

The LS1 conversion you can do at EFIlive and it would be 50x's better. I am doing it right now on my LT1 and it is only about a 800 dollar converison then harness and pcm and sensors and coils so about 1800-2000. Knowing this I don't know how a TBI could be considered. THE LS1 coil per cylinder is far superior. it will need knock sensor and so on because its controlling spark.

A more difficult conversion but an unbelievable performance upgrade.

2000+ grand for a TBI setup is ridiculous. I would not even ponder it. It is ancient technology and is not better than a carb other than you can change AFR depending on load.

No computer can learn by itself optimal settings period for fueling and spark it needs tuning. All OE computers control fueling using short term and long term trends to optimize fueling. After a few key cycles it will bias the fueling maps which it is possible to learn because it has no way to control spark but all basic PCM's do this. This is nothing special.

Modify an ls1 or lt1 computer to run it man. Seriously this is the only thing I would even consider. For the Lt1 all you need is a MAF ECT and o2's possibly maf to control fueling. It can be done without using the optispark. I would have to look into it more but you do not need to much to run it.

The LS1 conversion you can do at EFIlive and it would be 50x's better. I am doing it right now on my LT1 and it is only about a 800 dollar converison then harness and pcm and sensors and coils so about 1800-2000. Knowing this I don't know how a TBI could be considered. THE LS1 coil per cylinder is far superior. it will need knock sensor and so on because its controlling spark.

A more difficult conversion but an unbelievable performance upgrade.
Michael, how did your conversion go? I was looking at the ez-efi but also considering other options.

Michael, how did your conversion go? I was looking at the ez-efi but also considering other options.

Steve,

I was looking at it as well but now am seriously considering the Retrotek Powerjection III system which is now marketed by Professional Products. It has been around longer than the EZ-EFI (in the Powerjection I form) and has a MAP sensor so you can go boosted or use NOS. You can't do that with the EZ-EFI. Also, it looks like you can do more tuning with it and do custom maps. Plus, the wiring is a bit cleaner as the computer is inside the throttle assembly.

I priced out the full system plus what I'd need to do to my fuel system to retain the stock tank and came out at about $1800. I believe it is closer to a port injection system than it is TBI as the injectors are in the plenum rather than above the throttle blades.

You can download the instruction manual at the link below and read up on it.
http://www.retrotekspeed.com/products/powerjection-iii/powerjection-iii-system.html

Thanks for your input Steiner, I have had one question haunting me which is the fuel lines, supply and return and sending unit. I have the stock size stainless after market line, stock sending unit and of course no return line. I know fuel pressure has to be increased and a return line run back to the tank but does that mean I have to change my sending unit and existing stock size stainless fuel line?

I will look at the other system.

Thanks

Its still a tbi setup if the injectors are not in the runners.

THe setup went well... I am actually just getting to run my LT1 on a LS1 pcm. Cost like 900 bucks. I had a pcm laying around and I did the harness.

The thing has way more tuning options and maps. You can do alot more control not to mention I am running the coils per cylinder.

EFI-live sells a conversion kit for SBC's. Its about 500-600 and allows you to pick up your crank signal from the engine and run coils. Go pick up a holley intake and rails or something similar and put your injectors in it and run your harness and golden. Same price and way more tuneability and power being PFI and Coil per cylinder. Also there are alot of aftermarket kits to run the ls1 gauges in a first gen.... Best of all worlds. Yet the same price if not cheaper than these 80's technology fuel injection selling for 2 grand.

Thanks for your input Steiner, I have had one question haunting me which is the fuel lines, supply and return and sending unit. I have the stock size stainless after market line, stock sending unit and of course no return line. I know fuel pressure has to be increased and a return line run back to the tank but does that mean I have to change my sending unit and existing stock size stainless fuel line?

I will look at the other system.

Thanks

I sat down a couple of days ago and drew mine out. I just put in a brand new tank coated with bedliner, new sending unit, and new stainless hard line. Then the FI bug hit.

I am going to use my existing tank and hard line. I'll take the sending unit out, drill a hole, and add in another 3/8 or -6 line and run it parallel to the existing sending unit line (corner of the tank). That will be my return and I'll connect my existing hard line to it. The return does not have to be high pressure rated. The line coming off the regulator at the fuel rail will connect to the hard line at the front crossmember.

I'll mount the fuel pump at the tank and use the existing sending unit line as the feed to the pump. Then I'll run high pressure -6 line along side the existing hard line from pump to filter to fuel rail at the throttle body. The Powerjection is good to 600hp and -6 or 3/8" line is rated to 500hp but can probably support more than that as it is a continous rating. I don't plan to be much over 500hp and don't plan to be into that much as my car is not raced.

JimM is using this setup with the stock tank and sending unit with no problems. He told me he only gets starvation issues with hard cornering once fuel level gets down to two gallons. He used a 3/8" hard line bent to the spec of the original 1/4" vent line (some cars were equipped this way).

The tank also needs to be vented so I'll probably add a zig-zagged line with charcoal filter at the top of the fuel filler neck.

I believe you only need to worry about high pressure connections between the pump and fuel rail. Some say the flex line will bleed fuel smell but I'm going to try it. A lot of flex line I have seen is rated for "most fuels". I found one rated for "all fuels including nitromethane and methanol" and 1000 psi rated. I also found a teflon hose specifically for fuel injection but it's a little pricier. You can bend your own stainless for about half the price of flex hose BUT you'll have to factor in the cost of getting something or someone to double flare it. There are some sleeve and nut systems but I don't know if they make them for stainless.

Thanks for the info Steiner. If you could post a picture of the sending unit with the return drilled and I am curious to the venting, a picture of that would also be helpful.

Thanks again

Thanks for the info Steiner. If you could post a picture of the sending unit with the return drilled and I am curious to the venting, a picture of that would also be helpful.

Thanks again


These are all just plans right now. I just purchased the Powerjection III and don't have it yet. It will probably be at least a month before it gets installed with the way my schedule is. I'll do what I can to document the install. I'm still driving around on my setup now and it'll at least have to wait until this fresh tank of gas I just put in today is gone.:)

A new motor is going in next year and will require a new carb larger than what I've got now. Since that was going to run at least $400-$500 plus getting it dialed in, I figured I'd go ahead and try injection on my current motor and then move it to the new one since it's self learning.

why not do port injection if you are going to go through all the trouble. Night and day performance.

does anyone know if this product (fast ez) will work with a big mutha thumper?

does anyone know if this product (fast ez) will work with a big mutha thumper?

it will tune itself, mostly, so it should work fine.

only limit is 600hp max.

I would love to get a dual setup with these babes...

1800 bux each is a bit expensive if i say so.

Is there anybody out there that thinks these $2K+ EZ EFI setups are a little overhyped? It's been proven in several magazine that they don't provide any more power to the wheels than a carb, so is it really worth all that money and wires running everywhere and electric fuel pump requirement, etc, etc, just for slightly better throttle response and a few MPG at best? The 'easier starts' advantage is not valid because I have a standard Holley 750 with an electric choke and the car fires right up everytime and the electric choke gets me through cold mornings easily and I don't see how or why I need to improve there. I've looked at these systems a number of times as my interest was peaked also and I'm just wondering if it's all marketing hype. Also was wondering if a drop base air filter assembly will fit on these units as many of us need a drop base to fit our cleaners beneath our hoods. That might seem minor but having to use a smaller air filter could kill some important CFM.

well, with my carb, i always have in mind that it might run to lean, and the idea that i leave hp on the table because of a, not just right tuned, carb.

So this system would be ideal for me, for one thing that im too lazy to learn/properly tune my carb.

And, if im right, i hate to pump my carb 2-3 times for startup, and thats not with e.f.i.

I'm curious. You have a "Pro-touring" car and you're not for EFI?

Today it was 20°F here is Wisconsin. I have a ZZ502 in my '69 with a Holley C950 MPFI. I went to the shop where my car had been sitting for a month. I turned it over, it started, and idled on the first crank. Really...can a carb do that?

But beyond that, I love the throttle response. This motor started with a Demon Carb and I couldn't be happier with the results after the switch. If you can wire a first gen car, you can wire an EFI setup. It's really not that hard.

Especially after Holley just released their new EFI systems.

Has anyone been able to substantiate that you need to change the original 69 fuel tank venting, in order to make this work properly? I am considering going efi but the cost and mods are adding up quickly.

Has anyone been able to substantiate that you need to change the original 69 fuel tank venting, in order to make this work properly? I am considering going efi but the cost and mods are adding up quickly.

good question I would like to know also, just purchased the ez efi

My system said the vented cap was not sufficient and that the tank had to be vented, so I don't know whether it would have worked or not. I only had the single line sending unit, not the one with the vent tube. I JB-Welded a small elbow made from 3/8" tubing in the filler neck and mounted a charcoal canister ($15 on ebay) in the trunk. A line runs from the elbow up to the canister then a line comes back down from the canister exiting by the filler neck and I put a cheapie fuel filter on the end to act like an air filter. Most of you guys probably care a lot more about aesthetics than I do though.

Here are some pictures:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/12176273@N05/sets/72157622933647762/

A vented gas cap vents INTO the tank, EFI needs venting OUT and IN from the tank :) I have read where the original senders have been drilled for the fuel return and venting, but since original fuel pickups are not sumped, you have to worry about fuel starvation when you have low fuel levels.

Steiner that looks very clean nice job. I am still hoping to hold off for a tank that will solve it all at a reasonable price. Too bad the spectra tanks appear to have issues. Some of the manufactureers hot line techs will say it should work with stock venting but then again thats not real world testing. Thanks for your help. How is it working with your stock tank and low mounting of the fuel pump? I do a lot of drag racing and am curious about quick starts with about 1/4 to 1/2 tank of gas.

Is there anybody out there that thinks these $2K+ EZ EFI setups are a little overhyped? It's been proven in several magazine that they don't provide any more power to the wheels than a carb, so is it really worth all that money and wires running everywhere and electric fuel pump requirement, etc, etc, just for slightly better throttle response and a few MPG at best? The 'easier starts' advantage is not valid because I have a standard Holley 750 with an electric choke and the car fires right up everytime and the electric choke gets me through cold mornings easily and I don't see how or why I need to improve there. I've looked at these systems a number of times as my interest was peaked also and I'm just wondering if it's all marketing hype. Also was wondering if a drop base air filter assembly will fit on these units as many of us need a drop base to fit our cleaners beneath our hoods. That might seem minor but having to use a smaller air filter could kill some important CFM.

I completely agree. A TBI is a glorified carb that can only gain you mpg under light loads because of being able to go lean.

My 383 starts right up like 3-4 cranks in 20 degree weather with a 248/252 cam at .050 . I am running a holley pro-systems 950. I can guarantee i make as much power if not more than a TBI setup with no tuning needed and a fraction of the cost. The only really reason I can see why ppl would do it is because its self tuning. Hard starting problems and get a choke, really whats another second or two turning over the engine.

If you are worried about going lean/rich put a wideband. I have a PLX devices wideband on both my cars 200 bucks and peace of mind. BTW going lean will not cause any power loss rich will. Which ironically is what we do for protection at WOT. Fuel burns more completely and faster and hotter under leaner conditions. When you hit about 12 to 1 A/F combustion quality starts to become significantly effected. Its a sqrt curve which starts the downward curve around 15 to 1 and really turns downward sharply around 12.

I am an avid FI enthusiast and if I wasn't staying old school technology would have done it in a minute. This would have been like i stated earlier a GM controller running MPFI and coils per cylinder. It might cost you 3000-4000 but the performance difference will be unbelievable and the ignition system will be fault proof. If you are a good DIY could be done for about 2000 if not less.

Steiner that looks very clean nice job. I am still hoping to hold off for a tank that will solve it all at a reasonable price. Too bad the spectra tanks appear to have issues. Some of the manufactureers hot line techs will say it should work with stock venting but then again thats not real world testing. Thanks for your help. How is it working with your stock tank and low mounting of the fuel pump? I do a lot of drag racing and am curious about quick starts with about 1/4 to 1/2 tank of gas.


No problems as of yet with the stock pickup, however I don't drag race so I don't know how it would launch with some real power. The first startup I only had two gallons and it ran but starved when I got on it going to the gas station so I turned around and poured a couple more gallons in. I've since run it down to around 4-5 gallons with some spirited driving and haven't had an issue yet. My fuel gauge is pretty pessimistic so I read about an 1/8th tank when I've really got about five gallons. The last time I filled up it was doing fine and it took 13.5 gallons to fill.

I'd just make a guess and say if you're going to run a stock pickup and drag race that between 1/4 and 1/2 tank would be safe. It would most likely be trial and error. I guess you'd have to decide whether spending the extra money to sump the tank would be worth the little bit of weight savings over carrying more fuel.

I decided to keep the stock sending unit after talking to JimM. He said he had no problems until getting really low on fuel although his system runs at a lower pressure. The funny thing...well, not really funny...is that the way he and I are doing it seems to have less issues than the $500 tank.

By the way, the Summit fuel hose works awesome. There's no gas smell leaching through it as it uses a 100% synthetic nitrile inner lining and their hose ends work great with it. I'm using the hard line as the return. I cut off the sending unit line a few inches from the sending unit, barbed the end of it with a double flare die and used a worm clamp for the hose, and ran that to the pump (you only have to worry about high pressure fittings after the pump). Then I bent up a piece of 3/8" line so it would run from the hard line to the tank, drilled a hole in the sending unit, and JB-welded it in so it extends maybe two inches into the tank and dumps.

it will tune itself, mostly, so it should work fine.

only limit is 600hp max.

I would love to get a dual setup with these babes...

1800 bux each is a bit expensive if i say so.
why does everyone claim only good for 600hp. I ordered it last week and the engine builder told me I will have no problem on my 572 that is approx 750hp. I was told I had to go with 55lb per hr injectors and the aeromotive fuel pump

Even the manual states 650 if you raise the fuel pressure.

lot of cash for a throttlebody and some wire's but i do like the system just have sticker shock i was thinking 1200. to 1500.

My main reason for wanting to change is dirvability and ease of starting. My 650dbl pumper flat out performs but when not started regularly leaves alot to be desired. sometimes it runs great other times i have to blast it down the highway for a while. Not good if you just want to go across town for a cruise night.

I'm curious. You have a "Pro-touring" car and you're not for EFI?

Today it was 20°F here is Wisconsin. I have a ZZ502 in my '69 with a Holley C950 MPFI. I went to the shop where my car had been sitting for a month. I turned it over, it started, and idled on the first crank. Really...can a carb do that?


Is it a requirement to have or be a fan of EFI and be considered pro-touring? Trust me, I'd love to go EFI if was worth it. I have done tons of research on it and I'm quite interested in it. I was just questioning the real benefits versus the large cost, wires running everywhere, and fuel delivery requirements. Also I had a question about whether a drop-down air filter base would clear this setup which I didn't see anybody respond to. That might seem like something simple, but being able to run a large air filter is important and I've never seen it addressed anywhere for this FAST EFI setup. If I couldn't run my 14x3" filter with this product because my air filter base would not fit down over it, I simply wouldn't want the product. I don't see an issue with the Retrotek unit, but this FAST unit looks like there could be problems. Just curious.

I don't quite get the very low temperatures that you do as I live in San Diego, but I do know that I let my car sit for long periods of time quite often and it fires right up every time with 3 presses on the gas pedal and my electric choke keeps it idling with no problems until it warms up. The coldest I've run the car is in 50 degree weather. Is EFI going to make it a little easier to start the car and run smoother at low idle with better throttle response, yes, I don't doubt that. Is it worth it? That was my question only.

well, with my carb, i always have in mind that it might run to lean, and the idea that i leave hp on the table because of a, not just right tuned, carb.

So this system would be ideal for me, for one thing that im too lazy to learn/properly tune my carb.

And, if im right, i hate to pump my carb 2-3 times for startup, and thats not with e.f.i.

Understandable. I run a FAST dual Air/Fuel metering system in my car, so it's made it a lot easier to tune my carb exactly. Those things aren't cheap either, but I found a hardly used one on Ebay for $300 and it's been worth every penny. Without it, I'd just be guessing, and my guesses usually suck.

Unless i missed something , the ezefi system does not control ignition timing which is leaving alot on the table if you ask me. being able to control the timing makes a big difference. This system is catering to the crowd that wants an ez installation and a low price, not necessarily max performance. The tbi I could live with but not the lack of timing control.

Doug

Wow. I was thinking of putting a fi on my car. After this thread it seems like it wpuld make more sense to swap to a ls and just go from there. I want a turbo in my car and it seems to be getting more complicated by thw second. Thanks to everyone for theor input on this thread.

A used classic FAST system with wideband would be a good starting block unless you dish out the coin for an XFI. an efi turbo setup is a little complicated but people do it all the time, just read up on it, you will get there. there are some good turbo sites out there...

Doug

Anyone interested, there is a Group Purchase on FAST EZ EFI here

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?p=1380293#post1380293

We just installed the Ez EFI on a 68 Camaro with small block. Great kit and instructions, the computer is small and easy to mount, wires all labeled, and it started right up and ran smoother than before with steady idle. We already had an HEI distributor in it so the lack of ignition wasn't an issue for us. This is a pretty stock SB 350 and the EFI should make it a sweet car for cruising around or the occasional autocross. It didn't set our eyes to burning when warming up like the old carb did. We haven't driven it on the road yet, but soon. It appears the 14" air cleaner we have will fit, I laid it on the TB during mockup. It's a Moroso style air cleaner.

The throttle bores are 1 3/4" with no venturi's or booster nozzles to hurt flow, so it will pass enough air I think. Any HP limits are likely on the fuel side, either pump or injector flow.

Did you use the stock tank? I have to change my tank because it is leaking and cant afford the efi til next year. Thanks

Yes, stock tank and then drilled a hole for the return line, installed a -6 bulkhead fitting with stat o seal. Stat O Seal is an aluminum O ring bonded to the inside of an aluminum washer. I put the fitting in from the inside through the fuel pickup hole on top. I stuck a small long screwdriver through the hole and dropped the fitting over it and pulled it in the hole. Then held the fitting on the outside and put on the retaining nut.
David

Update
Drove the car yesterday and it drives great! Tinkered with the settings and greatly improved idle quality by setting base idle up a little higher, this is the idle stop screw adjustment on the throttle body. If this is set too low, the Idle Air Control works too hard and the idle hunts up and down.

Leaned cruse down to 15.2 from 14.5 starting point, I felt a tiny bit of surging so went to back to 14.8 for now. Leaned out idle from 13.5 to 13.8, need to play with that more.

Acceleration and throttle response is outstanding!
David

Update
Drove the car yesterday and it drives great! Tinkered with the settings and greatly improved idle quality by setting base idle up a little higher, this is the idle stop screw adjustment on the throttle body. If this is set too low, the Idle Air Control works too hard and the idle hunts up and down.

Leaned cruse down to 15.2 from 14.5 starting point, I felt a tiny bit of surging so went to back to 14.8 for now. Leaned out idle from 13.5 to 13.8, need to play with that more.

Acceleration and throttle response is outstanding!
David

good deal David. Yeah, on the idle deal, you want it to idle off the throttle blade setting when fully warmed without using much of the IAC or idle timing compensation. That way you get full use of both. I usually warm them up, turn off the idle timing compensation, command an idle speed way low (like say 400 rpm) so the IAC shuts down, and then set my idle speed with the throttle blade screw. Make sure to double check your tps settings afterwards, and then change the desired idle speed and idle timing compensation back on and you're good to go.



Jody

Jody,
Thanks, the EZ EFI uses a target and bar graph, you turn the idle speed screw until the bar is somewhere lined up with the target area. The way they do it seems to have the IAC open more than at idle, then you line it up on the display. It did seem to help to be on the high end of the setting. Then the menus make you do a TPS calibration. They do show you IAC counts though so you know where you are.
David

Jody,
Thanks, the EZ EFI uses a target and bar graph, you turn the idle speed screw until the bar is somewhere lined up with the target area. The way they do it seems to have the IAC open more than at idle, then you line it up on the display. It did seem to help to be on the high end of the setting. Then the menus make you do a TPS calibration. They do show you IAC counts though so you know where you are.
David

thanks David, I have never even seen the software for that one. The stuff I posted works with most aftermarket systems, but obviously not all.

Jody

Hi David;

I plan to put the EZEFI system in my 69 with a GMPP 350HO as soon as it gets a little warmer here in Colorado. I'm putting a new fuel tank, sender, pickup and fuel lines with return in when I do the project. So I'm wondering if you think the stock tank, with the 3/8 return and stock venting via the gas cap is going to work well with the pump from the FAST kit? I'm concerned about adequate venting and starvation with an OE tank setup. I've been thinking about going to a Ricks FI tank with the in-tank pump.. but the cost is really high on these ($1100!).

thanks
Bob

No, stock vented cap will not work, because the OE caps vent INTO the tank (vacuum), EFI need venting to outside (pressure and vacuum)

I just drilled and tapped a barbed fitting into my filler neck at about 1 oclock position a few inches back from cap, and added a hose,

Bill

I just drilled and tapped a barbed fitting into my filler neck at about 1 oclock position a few inches back from cap, and added a hose,

Bill
where did you run the hose? is anyone using a carbon filled vent tank?

where did you run the hose? is anyone using a carbon filled vent tank?

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1393265&postcount=32

On our 68, I also installed a gas cap from Air Ride, this cap is not vented but the new filler neck has an optional vent tube in it. A stock cap should work,it's vented in both directions or fuel could not be pumped out without collapsing the tank. The cap does hold in a pound or so of pressure on the tank to prevent the fuel from evaporating out.

The cap does hold in a pound or so of pressure on the tank to prevent the fuel from evaporating out.
David, does that statement apply to the Airride or the stock cap?

hey guys,the "i hate chemicals" fiance is complainin 'bout the "smell of gas" with a carburetor...which is tuned fine..not running rich etc. for the folks out there with ez fast, do you find it cuts down on the gas fumes when idling/warming up? tx chris

hey guys,the "i hate chemicals" fiance is complainin 'bout the "smell of gas" with a carburetor...which is tuned fine..not running rich etc. for the folks out there with ez fast, do you find it cuts down on the gas fumes when idling/warming up? tx chris

I have the same problem wife and daughter hate the gas smell Reminds me of andy griffin show when barney buys a car and there all riding in it complaining about the gas smell and barney said of course it is gas it runs on gas. If ez will fix the gas smell I will buy two tomorrow.

Gas smell is a little less with the EzEFI, but still there, but a cat converter is what really helps reduce it. The Air Ride gas cap itself is not vented, but they make a vent hose that screws into the filler neck. They also have a non vented version that must depend on a separate vent out of the gas tank like later models that use a charcoal canister.

I ordered one of these kits today, its going on my truck(not my 69) and it has a 454 in it, merlin heads etc, neat little street motor. Its replacing a new 950 ultra hp that i am tired of fighting with...we will see how it goes!!...

Welp...my kit came in and got it installed, my 1968 chevy p/u has a aftermarket rear mounted tank(had to run both fuel lines) with a 468, dart heads, eddy rpm, i cant remember the exact cam spec but its a comp cams hyd flat tappet low 600's, 110 center line and mid 240's at .050. It produced a max of 8 inches of vac with a new 950 hp ultra on it for exhaust it has 2 inch hooker super comps, the rest of it consists of a tci super street fighter t-400 and a 3500 stall with a 373 rear.
It took me about 6-8 hours to install everything, all is soldered etc. The directions are fantastic, just follow them. The only issue i have been having is finding CLEAN key on power, any of the points at the fuse box results in a o2 dtc, but when i put the key on power wire right to the battery all is perfect, no dtc's. clean power and grds are KEY. My idle went from 1000 in park to 800, the throttle response is wicked. all and all a fun weekend project. Its my first time installing a kit like this and it seems solid.

Kelly

Welp...my kit came in and got it installed, my 1968 chevy p/u has a aftermarket rear mounted tank(had to run both fuel lines) with a 468, dart heads, eddy rpm, i cant remember the exact cam spec but its a comp cams hyd flat tappet low 600's, 110 center line and mid 240's at .050. It produced a max of 8 inches of vac with a new 950 hp ultra on it for exhaust it has 2 inch hooker super comps, the rest of it consists of a tci super street fighter t-400 and a 3500 stall with a 373 rear.
It took me about 6-8 hours to install everything, all is soldered etc. The directions are fantastic, just follow them. The only issue i have been having is finding CLEAN key on power, any of the points at the fuse box results in a o2 dtc, but when i put the key on power wire right to the battery all is perfect, no dtc's. clean power and grds are KEY. My idle went from 1000 in park to 800, the throttle response is wicked. all and all a fun weekend project. Its my first time installing a kit like this and it seems solid.

Kelly

Sweet! Keep us posted how the drive feels.

That is so cool, and yes keep us informed on well it runs with some run time on it. I am planning on this same kit for next spring since I have to save the money to do so. It will replace the Holley 770 Avenger and though I am having no issues with it, I want better starting, throttle response, warm up, mpg's, cleaner and more efficency than the carb gives and I really like the no laptop needed. :hurray:

Welp...i can say that i am done with carbs...never thought i would say that, i remember when i started my apprentiship as a auto tech in 86 at a toyota dealer and fuel injection was coming out, all the techs(and myself) who cut out teeth on carbs thought what a dumb idea, it will never last, how is a guy supposed to fix this crap..etc.

I have no idea why i have spent THOUSANDS on carbs, last year i bought a holley 950 ultra hp and used it for 1 summer and it ran alright after lots of time, money and gas..lol.
Then i got a deal that i couldnt pass and thought why not, lets give it a go. I have driven the truck about 6-7 times with the injection and it just gets better and better, i hit the key, as soon as the starter cranks it running at 1000 rpm, 30-40 seconds later its at a 800 rpm idle, it doesnt matter hot or cold it really is awesome.

The power feels great, and the throttle response is so nice, my plugs are tan now. it uses less fuel as a added bonus. I was able to drop at least 150 rpm in idle speed which to me is odd?? but i like it. It takes a bit of "tuning" with the throttle blades to get the iac counts where i wanted them, and after speaking to MAtt at fast that is normal on larger motors with large cams, that took me all of a 1/2 hour.

So if someone is thinking about it, go for it. Next year i am going to install the same kit on my 69 camaro that has a mild 396 in it, it has a m21 and i am looking for a smoother take off and this kit will give that to me.

kelly

I know what you mean although I've got the Retrotek Powerjection III. Started doing break-in miles this week on my new engine and trans. It'll pull fifth gear which is a 0.64 OD and a 3.42 rear at 1400-1500 RPM. Try that without EFI if you've got a decent cam. I'm going to have to move out to Montana....this thing does 100mph at 2800 RPM now and feels like it's just bubblin' along.

I bought it because I was going to need a new carb anyway so that plus dyno time to get it right kinda offset the cost. Ran it on the engine that was in the car for a little while to try it out. I never did spend the time to get it right since that engine was coming out but here are the plugs out of that engine.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4021/4590832471_277a551a78.jpg

It's really good to hear how well you like efi. I, like you, have been reluctant to switch to efi, but with the aftermarket stepping up and making systems that are easily installed and require no lap top to get it started is great. I really like the look of the Powerinjection III setup and after seeing and talking to those of you who have made the switch, I am really leaning towards that system. I saw on one of the tv programs where Professional Products is coming out with a device that will pulse the fuel for their system to eliminate the need for a return line to the fuel tank which will further simplify insatllation, it's due at sometime this year. :hurray:

I know what you mean although I've got the Retrotek Powerjection III. Started doing break-in miles this week on my new engine and trans. It'll pull fifth gear which is a 0.64 OD and a 3.42 rear at 1400-1500 RPM. Try that without EFI if you've got a decent cam. I'm going to have to move out to Montana....this thing does 100mph at 2800 RPM now and feels like it's just bubblin' along.

I bought it because I was going to need a new carb anyway so that plus dyno time to get it right kinda offset the cost. Ran it on the engine that was in the car for a little while to try it out. I never did spend the time to get it right since that engine was coming out but here are the plugs out of that engine.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4021/4590832471_277a551a78.jpg

how do u like the powerjection III? i was thinking about FAST EZ but i like what i read about he powerjection? any probs with the system? would u buy it again?

if you were running a sumpped tank could you use the factory sending unit with dual lines for the fuel system? using the 3/8 for return and the 1/4 line for a vent. would a length of hose and a small K&N filter do enough venting?

the fuel pump would be fed from the bottom of the tank.

or can you run the return to the bottom of the tank sump as well?