On my previous track outing I ran a Team G intake with a 4-hole spacer. Ran a best of 12.41 @ 112.07 on 26" tires. Last night I switched back to the Holley 300-36 dual plane (no spacer), changed to a 28" tire, and installed an electric fan. Went 12.01 @ 112.76. 60's dropped from 2.08 dead-hook to spinning 1.74! That's a whopping .34 improvement with a 2" bigger tire to boot!

Just my $.02 but the dual plane just band-aided a poor combo. Your heads are choking the motor and the cam/rockers are WWWAAAAYYYYY too big for those heads at that compression.

Put the single-plane back on(w/o a spacer) with some 1:5 rockers and back off the lash a couple thousands and I'll bet you'll see more performance than even the dual plane.

The fact that you went to an electric fan would have probably nocked off .15.

Then there is the matter of moving from a drag radial to a real slick.You probably should have went to a M/T 26-8.5 and worked on the suspention a little bit more.

Also,it is now late in the year and for the most part the cool air is better.This will also increase your performance.

There are lots of people writing in about there new best times.

[ 10-25-2003, 05:23 PM: Message edited by: thrasher ]

Poor combo? If you crutch a "poor" combo with a certain selection of parts that produces good performance, then doesn't that make it a "good" combo? In my ignorance I guess I never considered that a 12.01 second (1300' elevation), 350-powered, 3200 pound full-trim street car that runs on 91 octane might be a poor combo. Is it optimum? Probably not, but then how many are? After all, this is a hobby site and most of us are balancing work, family, and budgets against our hobby.

"Your heads are choking the motor and the cam/rockers are WWWAAAAYYYYY too big for those heads at that compression."

How can you say this? Do you have the flow chart for my heads? What is the valve event timing for my cam? What would you recommend for an intake closing point that will work with a 10.3 CR and 91 octane, that would make the single plane ET better than the dual plane?

For what it's worth, I did run the Team G without the spacer and with the 1.5 rockers and ET suffered. MPH was off by over 5 at the 1/8.

Would a 13:1 CR, 5500 RPM stall converter, 4.88 gears, transbrake, and a 500 pound weight loss favor the single plane? I dunno, maybe. But for now I'm firmly planted in the dual plane camp for a mild street/strip proposition.

[ 10-25-2003, 08:06 PM: Message edited by: Fuji ]

My experience with Team Gs has been very bad. Every car I had one on went faster with a dual plane includeing a Super Comp dragster with a 6000 convertor. On a street strip car I can see no reason at all to ever run one.

oger-
Was there a particular one that didn't work or have you tried more than one.

Which part numbers??

Congrats. :D Your car is quicker with the dual plane. Do you want to get an 11-second time slip or go back to running mid-12's? It doesn't sound like there's anything to debate to me. ;)

Impressive performance......not that I'm at all surprised. ;) As for the comment about the dual plane being a crutch for a bad combo......I'd have to disagree. My combo is/was very much optimized and was still able to pick up .03 in 60' and .05 in the 1/8th mile going from a Victor Jr. to an RPM AirGap in controlled testing. My combo consists of a 4.56 gear, 4500 flash stall and the dual plane still made a significant improvement in ET. It's all about 60-foots in a street/strip ride and you cannot pickup on the back half of the track what you loose in the first half Don't forget that.

No doubt about it the dual plane intakes being produced today are going to net you quicker performance in a heavy street/strip ride.

BTW, I do support the comment about going back to 1.5 rockers and backing off the lash a few thousands. That's quite a bit of duration for a 350. My roller cam has less duration. :D

Sounds like to me you just picked up a bunch of midrange grunt!!

pdq67

40 Coupe,

I agree with your comments on the cam. I bought it for a 383 I have in the works. I still needed some parts for the 383 when spring arrived, so I threw the all parts for the 383 on my spare 350 short block and went racing for the summer. I would not have picked this cam for a 350. This winter will see the completion of the 383 (complete with the Holley 300-36!).

Very impressive times there Chris! If I was you though, my only complaint would be that it didn't run .02 quicker...then you would have 11's :D Very few 350's can touch those numbers...give yourself a pat on the back!

Of course, now you guys are causing ME problems. I have a 7530 weiand team g on my 388. I chose it because not many people use it (just to be a little different). Now I am seeing why.

Congratulations on your new best times! :cool:

Your MPH stayed nearly the same which IMO is an indication that your tire swap really made a big difference in your 60' performance which in turn improved your ET.

When we switched from flex fan to electric on a friend's car we picked up .5 MPH. Depends a lot on how good or bad your flex fan was to begin with (his flex fan was pretty good, some can soak up 25HP when compared to an electric).

As for which intake is better on your combo who knows --- it's impossible to tell for sure which change made what difference when you make 3 changes at the same time.

The bottom line is this . . . if you are happy with the changes you made great! It's YOUR ride and what YOU are happy with is what counts. There is no ONE part that is correct for every car and every combo, sometimes you have to experiment to find what works best for YOU. Don't be afraid to try both intakes on your new 383 when you get it all together.

Good luck!

Right On!! Great new times, Congrats.
I don't doubt your car ran quicker with the dual plane. In my opinion your 350 is over cammed (for the compression) which softens up the bottom end, on top of that you had a single plane which just added to the problem. As Eric mentioned your MPH is about the same, this just shows that you made up the time in the first half of the track. You made several changes at one time, so don't give all the credit to the dual plane. The reason you dead hooked before is because you didn't have enough torque down low to spin the tires. Those are impressive times for a N/A 350, on pump gas, so who can argue? Once you build your 383 come back and talk to us, I am willing to bet it runs better with a single plane (go with a Vic Jr, sell or trade the team G). The 383 will have the torque down low to get you out of the hole and the single plane will let it pull all the way to the end. For every one going to a dual plane in place of a single, there is someone doing just the opposite. The new dual planes are much better than the old ones but, I know my car got wuicker/faster going from the RPM Air Gap to the Vic Jr. as have a few other guys on this board. Bottom line is do what work for you and your combo. With that big solid cam and 4.10's that is crying for a single plane (and compression or cubic inches). I would be interested to know your shift points as well? What is your RPM like when you cross the line?

Fuji,

Let me clarify my comments here so there is no confusion.
1. 180cc heads are pretty much a high velocity low rpm set-up and are generally all done by .500 lift.
2. The dual plane has longer runners and smaller diameter which compliments the small heads(it's not air quantity it's quality).
3. A Victor Jr. is a far better single plane than the Team G and better than some dual planes.
4. The tire change and electric fan and other unknown variables could have contributed more to the performance gain than the manifold. Not a valid comparison.
5.250+ duration on a 10.5 compression motor bleeds a lot of pressure out of the cylinders (cyl. pressure makes power).
6. A vacuum secondary carb is more suited for a dual plane than a single plane.
7. Low end torque has it's place but how long is your motor at 2500-3500rpm during a drag race?

I ain't knockin your performance just your theory.

Some great discussion and debate going on here! Thanks to all who jumped in with opinion and experience. I'm reminded to keep an open mind. The Team G was borrowed so maybe I'll go ahead and try a Victor Jr. on the 383 once I get it all sorted out. 10secSS - Thanks for the clarification and observations. My head porter says he's taken 180 Dart IE's to 210 with no trouble. Do you think that would be good move? I plan to use the same cam and heads on the 383.

Which Team G are you using? There are four different types, which claim a max RPM from 6500 to 8200RPM.

I've had good luck with the Team G that peaks in the low 7000RPM range on larger engines, but I don't know how it would work on a 350. Ports are a bit large.

Whistling....

Any body got a NICE Dual plane that they are looking to get rid of? Cause Im SURE Running a Team G!!! lol graemlins/clonk.gif

Ok ok ok.... My motor has NEVER been tuned. So far be it from me to make an argument either way. the Variables NOT mentioned is Temp...Track Condition....Tires...ECT. I still tend to think that the Dual plane is better!

... Wait... Hold up... Gear set says... Oh well out with that theory....

I am willing to bet the house that with a nice V.J. and the same set up, you'll do just a hair better in the whole RPM Band.

But whoa... what an improvement!!!!

Fuji,

I would be looking for flow numbers of 280I-190E at 600 lift with a smooth transition from .050 on up. A Victor Jr. port matched and a 750dp would nice on a 383. Personally, I would go with a solid lifter cam of about 510-520 lift and 235-240 duration at .050 for a 10.5 compression motor with a 2500-6300rpm power range. A 3500rpm stall convertor, T350, 3.73 gear and drag radials would make a 3200-3500# car a real street-strip terror.