http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31146562

"THEY KILLED IT IN 1970"http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/fighting/fighting0004.gif

"THEY KILLED IT IN 1970"http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/fighting/fighting0004.gifTrue so True.:yes:

If they build the current Camaro for just a few years and then drop it, they will become top collectors cars of the future.

They have already put the Z28 and Convertible on "hold".

I can see alot more restriction placed on the auto makers to produce more fuel efficient vehicles. If thats the case, you can kiss alot of the performance cars like the Camaro and Challenger goodbye. I would think that the 2010 V8 Camaro will be a desirable car in the future and one of the last cars built for performance.

I hope the Camaro stays around for a while. The V6 is a 300 hp motor that gets 30 mpg. Fuel efficient and a Camaro. Sounds like a good plan to me.

The Camaro will survive. Only it will be electric and front wheel drive.:D

I think the perfomance cars will stay I just think you will pay the price in the future like the luxury tax on the high end SUV's...

The next generation camaro will look and act like a prius I predict.......

Sales will dictate. There will always be a select group who can afford these luxuries.

capt

thank's to the fine goverment we got

If they build the current Camaro for just a few years and then drop it, they will become top collectors cars of the future.

That didn't happen with the Holden/GTO.

That didn't happen with the Holden/GTO.


JMHO, but the problem with the new GTO is it looked too darn much like a Cavalier. :sad: My good friend Brian owned an extremely nice Yellow 6sp GTO and it was an amazing car, performance & handling wise, but it just lacked IMHO the styling. I think if they would have captured the essance of the original car they would have been a huge success.

I feel the same way about the new Camaro. It is an Awesome car, but then there is that little styling issue again. :( People either love them or hate them, I havnt really made up my mind yet which side of the fence I am on, but I really wished it resembeled a 67-69. After all they are about the most popular collecter car out there and I have yet to ever met anyone that didn't want to own one.

Anyhow that's my .02 worth,
:beers:

That didn't happen with the Holden/GTO.

If they would have just imported the Manaro as is and not let someone mess with it I think it would still be selling.

Sorry about the earlier political comments, I'll just say I really miss the 1960s era of American cars!

It's unfortunate but I don't think the Camaro or Challenger will be around for more than a couple years. I hope I'm wrong, but they came in at a really difficult time. And I love Camaros, but am one of those who is 'on the fence' about the new ones as to the styling. Step in the right direction, but the latest generation Mustang I think was the design that really hit the homerun.

It's unfortunate but I don't think the Camaro or Challenger will be around for more than a couple years. I hope I'm wrong, but they came in at a really difficult time. And I love Camaros, but am one of those who is 'on the fence' about the new ones as to the styling. Step in the right direction, but the latest generation Mustang I think was the design that really hit the homerun.

What are you basing this on? The exterior styling design factor? If these cars were only available in high dollar, V8 performance configurations, I might agree.

They can't keep up production Vs. orders.... sounds like it shoud have stuck around (the Vette did :clonk:) But I guess thats why the GM's and CEO's make the big bucks :rolleyes:

i sure hope not.i am getting to really like the new camaro.wish it would have look a bit more like the 69 model but its growing on me.the six is really fuel efficent.imo

I think the price alone will kill it, saw a loaded one on the lot for 40K. What happened to the poor mans corvette.

They should not kill it, its the only thing they have thats selling. If production was up they could sell even more. Just my .02.

I think the price alone will kill it, saw a loaded one on the lot for 40K. What happened to the poor mans corvette.

Some dealers are marking them up and that's hurting the customer and GM both but if you look at msrp you can't touch a new Vette for Camaro prices... The base Vette msrp is $49,515 with a 430 hp LS3. A base SS is $31,040 with a 426 hp V8 and you can get a base V6 for $23,040. That means you can get a Camaro that will hang with a Vette all day for $18,000 less and you can still have a fun driving experience for $26,000 less than the Vette.

"they killed it in 1970"http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/fighting/fighting0004.gif

you have got to be kidding. Ever drive a 70 z ?? Will out perform a 69 in all areas

L78 - don't sweat it, some guys just crave the drama, all he's saying is "he likes the 1st gen best...

Some dealers are marking them up and that's hurting the customer and GM both but if you look at msrp you can't touch a new Vette for Camaro prices... The base Vette msrp is $49,515 with a 430 hp LS3. A base SS is $31,040 with a 426 hp V8 and you can get a base V6 for $23,040. That means you can get a Camaro that will hang with a Vette all day for $18,000 less and you can still have a fun driving experience for $26,000 less than the Vette.

Every major product to hit showrooms has had a markup at a small percentage of dealers, GM, Chrysler, Ford, all of them. This is nothing new.

I think the price alone will kill it, saw a loaded one on the lot for 40K. What happened to the poor mans corvette.

As for the Camaro being expensive, price out the Mustang and the Camaro option for option and tell me what you think.

Every major product to hit showrooms has had a markup at a small percentage of dealers, GM, Chrysler, Ford, all of them. This is nothing new.

I don't think that makes it ok... There is a bigger picture and dealerships that mark up cars during these times are not helping their own cause for the long haul... Right now around here there are Camaros sitting on some dealership lots unsold with $5k or more markups. There isn't one out there to be had for MSRP because they have all been sold and the dealerships selling at MSRP have waiting lists. The marked up ones sit and customers go elsewhere and it's not always a GM dealership. It doesn't sound like rocket science, volume is key to GM's recovery...

GM is in the business selling new cars. They won't pull the plug until they can't sell anymore or have something better.

One way to look at selling above retail is this: most of us have no problem walking into a dealer and trying to get a lower price. What is the difference?

I don't think that makes it ok... There is a bigger picture and dealerships that mark up cars during these times are not helping their own cause for the long haul... Right now around here there are Camaros sitting on some dealership lots unsold with $5k or more markups. There isn't one out there to be had for MSRP because they have all been sold and the dealerships selling at MSRP have waiting lists. The marked up ones sit and customers go elsewhere and it's not always a GM dealership. It doesn't sound like rocket science, volume is key to GM's recovery...

There are PLENTY to be had at MSRP, anyone can walk in and place their order for one. While there are not enough out there yet for dealers to stockpile on their lots, GM is catching up on ordered cars at the moment.

Especially when dealer sales are down, many are struggling to make ends meet. Especially now I don't blame a dealer or two for marking the car up and trying to make a few extra dollars. If people didn't buy cars at marked up prices, dealers wouldn't try to sell them for that price. Basic economics :cool:

GM is in the business selling new cars. They won't pull the plug until they can't sell anymore or have something better.

One way to look at selling above retail is this: most of us have no problem walking into a dealer and trying to get a lower price. What is the difference?

Again it's the bigger picture, GM has requested dealerships not mark up the cars in an effort to keep sales volume up and make the cars available to more buyers. It's basic business, Summit and Jeg's are thriving business' because of volume and lower prices at the same time mom and pop speed shops have been forced to close their doors.

There are PLENTY to be had at MSRP, anyone can walk in and place their order for one. While there are not enough out there yet for dealers to stockpile on their lots, GM is catching up on ordered cars at the moment.

Especially when dealer sales are down, many are struggling to make ends meet. Especially now I don't blame a dealer or two for marking the car up and trying to make a few extra dollars. If people didn't buy cars at marked up prices, dealers wouldn't try to sell them for that price. Basic economics :cool:

Well around here dealerships are telling customers they have reached their ordering limits for the year and they will not be getting more Camaros this year. At the same time I can find you 5 2SS cars just sitting because of the markup. There is always someone willing to pay to have what they want but the economic times and the finical position of GM don't support marking up cars as a business practice. Besides the Camaro is intended for the general population not those with bottomless bank accounts... Keep in mind all the Mustangs sitting around with hugh factory rebates right now. If a guy can't afford the Camaro he wants his next option is to find a car kinda like the Camaro that he can afford...

I'm not against free enterprise but if GM doesn't succeed the dealerships that sell it's products won't succeed. We've already seen plenty of GM dealerships closed around here and I don't think the owners and their employees volunteered to shut their doors. Dealerships are not independant business' in the big picture they are part of the GM team.

I am not sure many car dealers could grasp that concept. I did business with dealers for 13 years. They are by and large one of the most agressive businesses around. That being said, maybe the "Saturn" approach could help GM survive.

I tried a week ago to find an SS in town. I was told the wait was 12-16 weeks and they had 50 orders waiting. It seems GM does not have the capacity to build them.

I tried a week ago to find an SS in town. I was told the wait was 12-16 weeks and they had 50 orders waiting. It seems GM does not have the capacity to build them.

The Oshawa assembly plant is putting out approximately 2,700 new Camaros a week. (450 a day, 6 days a week) I ordered mine on 4/24 and took delivery last Wednesday 7/1, just a little over 9 weeks. The reason dealers are waiting on them is allocation. If your particular dealer has no allocation, you could wait weeks or months until GM puts your order into cue for production, until the dealers next allocation to comes up. The delay is allocation not production. Once the order is accepted by GM, you'll see your new Camaro within 6-8 weeks now.

My dealer sold me my car for msrp, not a penny more. There are dealers out there who are not raping customers with a $2k-$10k "market adjustment" mark up, you just have to look around, ask questions and get the msrp thing in writing. Go over to www.camaro5.com (http://www.camaro5.com) and read some of the horror stories of the dealer agreeing to msrp at the time of order, then when the car arrives the gouging games begin.

I bought a 2LT/RS and have to say it's probably the best quality car I've ever purchased and I'm 58. The fit, quality, interior, exterior, engine, audio system will rival anything in it's class and price range out there today. Leather interior, heated seats, heated mirrors, sport suspension, sunroof, HID headlamps, Boston Acoustics audio, XM radio, V6 (304 hp) 6 sp auto trans, traction control, etc etc for less than 32K. I don't think GM is going to kill this one anytime soon.

As for the Camaro being expensive, price out the Mustang and the Camaro option for option and tell me what you think.

The camaro cost more, you can get a base mustang GT for MSRP of 28K for a deluxe and 29,955 for a premium. The base Camaro 1SS is 30,245 before you start adding options. Im sure you can get a mustang higher, but what is going to be sitting on the lots is what matters. I have yet to see a GT at the 40K mark.

So, in my opinion when the average joe is driving from car lot to car lot and sees the average optioned Camaro at more than likley 5K more than the GT it will be an easy choice.

The camaro is once again more than the mustang and will again lose the sales battle to the mustang.

Looking up a Mustang GT premium I see a price of 30,995, not 29,995. But in either case the price difference is small, then when you compare what you get for the money, just on the surface, the Camaro has 426 hp vs 315, 420 lb/ft torque vs 325, the camaro has a full independant rear suspension.

But you would end up owning a Mustang. Cheaper yes, but there is a reason why.

Obama won't kill the camaro. No one will do anything to further damage GM. Guaranteed.

... in my opinion when the average joe is driving from car lot to car lot and sees the average optioned Camaro at more than likley 5K more than the GT it will be an easy choice.

The camaro is once again more than the mustang and will again lose the sales battle to the mustang.

Uhmmm - evidently the "average joe" isn't doing as you seem to think :noway:
Or - haven't you read ;)
The CAMARO outsold the Mustang last month - by a bunch! - http://jalopnik.com/5305620/camaro-bests-mustang-in-june-sales
The Challenger was outselling it also for quite a few months ...

Ford's sales projections for their 2010 'redesigned' Mustang don't seem as bright as one might expect - specially from them.
Seems like they realize, as others are starting to, that they led sales in a market with only one (1) player - and now that there are a couple other excellent players, and folks are shopping their competition, they may not be on top again - for awhile ;)

Also, Challenger has been selling quite well, and also had outsold the Mustang for several months in the begining of the year - until the Camaro came out anyway ...
Challenger is one of Chrysler's top producing units at this point - I dougbt they would be killing it anytime soon ;)

Uhmmm - evidently the "average joe" isn't doing as you seem to think :noway:
Or - haven't you read ;)
The CAMARO outsold the Mustang last month - by a bunch! - http://jalopnik.com/5305620/camaro-bests-mustang-in-june-sales
The Challenger was outselling it also for quite a few months ...

Ford's sales projections for their 2010 'redesigned' Mustang don't seem as bright as one might expect - specially from them.
Seems like they realize, as others are starting to, that they led sales in a market with only one (1) player - and now that there are a couple other excellent players, and folks are shopping their competition, they may not be on top again - for awhile ;)

Also, Challenger has been selling quite well, and also had outsold the Mustang for several months in the bigging of the year - until the Camaro came out anyway ...
Challenger is one of Chrysler's top producing units at this point - I dougbt they would be killing it anytime soon ;)

Actually, I knew the camaro outsold the mustang last month and is that a surprise to anyone. It is the latest gotta have it car and has been out of production compared to a mustang that never stopped. You may be willing to take the jump that a super hyped camaro will continue this trend, but I am not.:noway:

But you would end up owning a Mustang. Cheaper yes, but there is a reason why.

Obama won't kill the camaro. No one will do anything to further damage GM. Guaranteed.

I actually own a 06 Mustang GT and I think its a great car with great value. I have never owned a foreign car, but I have no problems parking another great AMERICAN product next to my 69.

... I tried a week ago to find an SS in town. I was told the wait was 12-16 weeks and they had 50 orders waiting. It seems GM does not have the capacity to build them.


Gary - FYI, I found a couple in the Bay Area a couple weeks back - including a really nicely equiped Black SS at Winter Chevrolet in Antioch/Pittsburg.
Here is the link to their info - http://www.winterchevrolet.com/inventory/details.php/VIN_2G1FK1EJ6A9117075/ID_winterchevrolet/UI_detail_new2

I think the manager (Ed Small) said they had a couple others on the way in that weren't spoken for also ...

just look at the rear quarter and think 69 camaro!

John, I was just looking to look. I still have not seen an SS on the street.