Was hoping for a little guidance here . . .

I have a no-name $120 gear reduction starter on my 383. I know its a cheap one, but I'm not entirely sure its the starter that is giving me a hard time anyway.

When I drive the car and shut it off and try to restart it, I can hear the solenoid solidly "click" (it doesn't chatter like a dead battery, just one click) but it doesn't turn over. I can try the key over and over, even jiggling the key and it doesn't make a difference.

BUT. If I short the big post to the "start" post with a screw driver, the starter immediately turns over. Then the key will work from inside the car.

My question is this - do you guys think it is a faulty starter solenoid or a bad ignition switch? I am using the original ignition switch.

one more thing. the starter is at least 1/2" away from the engine and headers, I really doubt it is a heat soak problem.

This sounds like classic solenoid failure, but since you're using an aftermarket starter I can't be sure, since I've never looked at one closely. My guess is that the contacts in the solenoid are pitted, corroded or dirty. When you jump straight across with the screwdriver you are bypassing those contacts, and presto!

This is common with original equipment starters but less common with mini-starters. I can say that mine does this after running hard. I am planning to add a Ford starter relay to the circuit so this problem will go away.

Esentialy, if you can jump the terminals and make it start, I would suspect a high resistance in the starter circuit. Add the Ford relay and see if it cures it.

-Mark.

Try a new neutral safety switch first if you have one of those, or the ignition switch may be pitted and passing too low a current.
David

I have a cheap mini starter too, it makes a loud click almost every start, I was told this is normal.

By the way Eric, I looked at your homepage with all your car pics. Your car looks wonderfull, I love how that K&N filter setup looks.

Thanks Nitrous 383, I apreciate the compliment. Have you got your car back to the track yet? I thought the time posted in your sig was old --- I don't remember.

I forgot completely about the neutral safety switch. Since it was originally a column shift car I have the original safety switch jumpered out and am using the safety switch in my Hurst ratchet shifter.

BPOS, I think the only things I would be jumpering out by using a hot wire on the start post is the ignition switch and the neutral safety switch. All the contacts inside the solenoid would still be used even with a hot wire.

I suppose the F**d switch would work too, at least for a while. I might have to save that for last . . .

Thanks. I let you guys know what I find. I'm betting ignition switch . . .

Nope, havent been to the track yet,it keeps getting rained out. I must say the car feels so much faster and smoother now(NO WHEELHOP), Im hoping for 12s with street tires and pump gas, my posi broke so im one leggin it. Believe it or not, this car flat gos without posi, I preloaded the traction bars a ton and the car does the mopar lift hardcore. I got a new Accel billetech HEI, changed to ACDelco FR3LS, the engine loves it. Now I just need to swap out the stock 30gph fuel pump for a high volume, Ill post new track results asap for sure, I can hardly wait.

I have a cheapie gear reduction starter on my '67 too and it "clicks" often too. When I restore the car I've decided to go w/ an OEM starter. I agree w/ you about it not being heat soak. I researched that issue because my '79 suffered from that. With heat soak, there is no audible "click" . As a side note, I installed the kit form M.A.D. and the mombo welding cable lead and that problem is no more on the '79. In your case, I would suspect an ignition switch, but these types of intermittent problems can be tough to solve. Good luck.

jumping the solenoid with a screw driver is the same is turning the ignition tongue.gif if it starts that way then the ignition is f graemlins/angry.gif ed Take a jumping wire from the battery and touch the solenoid with it and if it starts then the ignition or the wire from it is bad!!Also like dave says check the safety switch! Nick

I would not totaly disagree with that post. From a practical standpoint, finding the source of resistance can be frustrating. The ignition switch, the neutral safety switch, all the connections along the way, etc all contribute to reduced voltage at the "S" starter terminal. The replacement ignition switch is readily available but not everything in the circuit is. If you can do the screwdriver thingy and get it to crank, you can either trace down the high resistance in the circuit and fix it, or do the Ford solenoid trick and be done with it. The Ford solution is admittedly a band-aid but it does solve the problem. You can trip the Ford solenoid on much less available voltage than the GM unit and use the Ford piece allows you to bypass the whole high resistance GM enchalada. smile.gif

-Mark.

I still suspect a starter rather than an ignition circuit problem. The reason is that after he performs the screwdriver trick the key works again. The screw driver trick completely bypasses the key/starter circuit, and provides vitually resistance free battery voltage to the solenoid, (especially if you're using a Craftsman screwdriver :D ) which is often just enough extra oomph to make a marginal connection adequate. In a former life I was a GM tech for a short time. We saw this problem frequently, and more often than not it was a bad solenoid. Another possibility would be a bad winding in the armature. (I'm working from memory here - it's been 23 years!)

This isn't to say it couldn't be a bad ignition switch - it very well could. It wouldn't be too hard to isolate it either way. Try removing the switch and jumping across it from that end of the circuit.

And if I wind up being wrong - well, it wouldn't be the first time!

Good luck!

[ 04-15-2003, 08:37 PM: Message edited by: BPOS ]

I agree it could be LOTS of things not just a switch or any one thing.
I repair a lot of farm vehicles and our pickups get dirt in the switches and a little spec of dirt, corrosion, or wear on a contact can insulate enough to cause the problem.

If the screwdriver trick makes it turn over, I'd suspect excessive resistance in the starter circut. I wish I knew an easy way to test for it, like a voltage drop test, but I don't have a spec for it.

If you have a neutral safety switch you can bypass it and see if that takes care of the problem.

On GM starters, I've had pretty good success using a Standard Motor products #SS200 solenoid. It fits any Delco standard "old style" starters. A friend just told me of having hot start trouble with his Mercruser/chevy powered boat, I gave him an #SS200 to try on it.
GM used to have a reduced strength return spring that helped, I don't have the part number anymore.

I've had lots of trouble with two identical gas engined International Harvester flatbed trucks hauling produce to market (delco starters). The driver would stop to get a soda on the way back from town, and the rig would not start. He'd call me, and by the time I got there it would have cooled enough to start up. Very frustrating

I've only had one case where the ign switch was the problem, MOST common was the neutral safety switch, second most common was the solenoid, followed by an internal starter problem like bad brushes or armiture,which makes the starter real jerky with lots of clicking of the solenoid, sometimes the pinion end bushing gets worn and the armiture drags but this makes a growling noise.

I ALLWAYS clean the battery terminals and ground when there is a problem right off, and load test the battery before "digging in".

If your dome light is on and goes dim to out when you crank the starter, you either have a bad battery, bad cable connection, or the starter is bad internally and drawing exccessive amps.

A trick for a bad neutral safety switch is to jiggle the shifter when cranking or try starting in neutral instead of park.

Wouldn't you know it, I drove the car 3 days in a row and the problem hasn't reappeared.

When it does come back, I will watch the dome light and try jiggling the shifter. Now I am keeping my voltmeter in the car and will compare battery voltage to voltage at the solenoid next time it happens. If voltage is much lower at the solenoid with the wire disconnected, I'd think that would confirm a high resistance starter circuit, right?

It might just be worth my while to replace the solenoid anyway and rewire the neutral safety switch in the shifter. If I remember, I used a light gauge wire, like 18 maybe, to wire the neutral safety switch to begin with. Maybe that is my problem.

Fixed the problem. Looks like we were all wrong.

The starter needed to be shimmed. I eliminated everything but the starter so I replaced it with an identical model. Well the new starter was worse than the old, did the same thing only it did it every time whether I used the ignition switch or a hot wire. I pulled the dust cover and saw that the starter gear would not disengage the flywheel. It took .045 in shims to get it right.

BTW The starter is supposedly made by Hitachi and is supposedly a pretty decent piece.