My 434 sbc build up is finally coming togehter. I decided to go with the solid roller by udharold.

I was playing around with virtualengine2000 and found that the rpm airgap made more torque and HP then the vic jr overall! At 3500 RPM it made over 100 ft/lb more of tq.Although it lowered my RPM range by about 500.

airgap made 571HP/575TQ
vic jr made 568HP/507TQ
Does that look right?

Not sure how the airgap will match up to the afr 220 heads intake runners.

Dart little M zero deck .041 quench
4340 eagle 4" stroke
4340 h-beams 6"
je pistons 10.73 to 1
afr 220cc heads
mighty demon 750
pro magnum 1.5 rollers
lunati/udharold solid roller custom grind 582" 254*/262* @ .050
isky red zone lifters
1-3/4" headers 2.5" flowmaster w/h-pipe
msd ignition
intake will be vicjr or airgap

http://home.hawaii.rr.com/rayzors1/434airgap.jpg

http://home.hawaii.rr.com/rayzors1/434vicjr.jpg

Thanks in advance for recommendations/comments
Ray

That seems like the program is a little hard on the TQ figure for the Vic Jr. It will be less for sure, but not by 75 ft./lbs at 4500. I am a big believer in dual planes for street applications and smaller cube engines, but a 4" stroke small block is going to make massive amounts of torque from right off idle. You probably want to go single plane to help that big engine breathe because there will be no lack of torque down low.

I did the Performer RPM vs. Vic Jr swap on mine and lost virtually nothing on the 60'. I made it all up and then some by the 1/8th and picked up a nice bit of mph. Driveablity and throttle response seem about the same too.

If it was a flat tappet 350 I would say go with the RPM but with a roller 434 I would recomend the Vic. Jr.

I agree with above. With my 412ci, it made good torque with the Performer RPM, but I didn't notice any torque loss when I switched to the Team G and it gained a bunch on the top end.

Thanks guys!I figured that the specs on the vic jr seemed low compared to the air gap numbers.I was planning on the vic jr as it would be a better port match with the afr 220's then I bought this software dyno and had to think twice.(the airgap 4-corner water outlet is nice,wish the vic jr had it)

Thanks again for the input.Your actual experience on the street/track is the real proof Just another reason team camaro is so valuable graemlins/thumbsup.gif ! Ray

Originally posted by Silver69Camaro:
I agree with above. With my 412ci, it made good torque with the Performer RPM, but I didn't notice any torque loss when I switched to the Team G and it gained a bunch on the top end. Really? Can you please post the ET slips to back up your claims? ;)

I picked up .03 in the 60'and .05 at the 660' stripe swapping from a Vic Jr. to an RPM. It is a revelation to many that increased torque below converter flash point is important. ;)

Originally posted by 40Coupe:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Silver69Camaro:
I agree with above. With my 412ci, it made good torque with the Performer RPM, but I didn't notice any torque loss when I switched to the Team G and it gained a bunch on the top end. Really? Can you please post the ET slips to back up your claims? ;)

I picked up .03 in the 60'and .05 at the 660' stripe swapping from a Vic Jr. to an RPM. It is a revelation to many that increased torque below converter flash point is important. ;) </font>[/QUOTE]I know your car improved with the swap, but even you must know that you didn't pick up 75 ft. lbs., right? That was the point he was making, the program loses 75 ft. lbs. at 4500 rpm which is no where near reality. A gain of 75 lbs of torque would have netted you quite a bit more than .05 in the eighth.

Jody

I know your car improved with the swap, but even you must know that you didn't pick up 75 ft. lbs., right? That was the point he was making, the program loses 75 ft. lbs. at 4500 rpm which is no where near reality. A gain of 75 lbs of torque would have netted you quite a bit more than .05 in the eighth.

JodyI'll respond to that by saying I don't race a computer sim program, G-TEC, rear engine dyno, engine dyno, or "my butt tells me it's quicker" dyno. The only way to quantify and measure performance improvements is on the drag strip.

However, I agree that it's unlikely that any intake swap is worth 75 lb/ft at any RPM range.

I do know for a fact that for relatively heavy street/strip rides that dual plane intakes ET quicker if the car can hook it. Those here that have picked up going the other way did so because they weren't hooking in the first place. Just ask.

What really gets me is people who think softening the launch makes their car quicker. I run 9" tires and personally I enjoy punishing them. Hit those ba$tards as hard as you can and hang on!! :D

Absolutely agree. You, Ed, and others have proven that a lot of the mainstream thinking in what works and doesn't is not correct. You should be proud of how your car runs. I was mainly looking at the projected 75 ft. lb. loss between the two which I don't think is correct.

Take care.

Jody

Jody's right, I was just talking about the loss of 75 lb-ft.
My personal belief is that there really isn't a general "trend" on which manifold is better. With so many variables such as cam timing, displacement, gearing, traction, etc, it's impossible to determine which manifold better without any track testing. Car A may work well with a dual plane, but car B may work better with a single plane.

It's all in the combo!

Originally posted by Greg O:
That seems like the program is a little hard on the TQ figure for the Vic Jr. It will be less for sure, but not by 75 ft./lbs at 4500. I am a big believer in dual planes for street applications and smaller cube engines, but a 4" stroke small block is going to make massive amounts of torque from right off idle. You probably want to go single plane to help that big engine breathe because there will be no lack of torque down low.

I did the Performer RPM vs. Vic Jr swap on mine and lost virtually nothing on the 60'. I made it all up and then some by the 1/8th and picked up a nice bit of mph. Driveablity and throttle response seem about the same too.

If it was a flat tappet 350 I would say go with the RPM but with a roller 434 I would recomend the Vic. Jr. Well said. I agree.