Got my firebird chassis dynoed today, was a little disappointed but i did some great tuning! A guy from here and team chevelle by the name of Onovakind67 runs a chassis dyno shop near the bay area in CA. I would have to say that I highly recommend to anyone near the bay area that they give him a call, it was a very fair price, and they took their time and helped me out a bunch!
I have a 71 firebird with a pontiac 400 in it, it has medicore stock pontiac heads with a bowl blend/short turn, screw in studs, and a new valve job with standard "big" valves. 1.5 roller rockers, extreme 274 cam, 9-1 compression,
peformer rpm, 750DP, hooker headers, MSD, richmond five speed.

here are the numbers
Max power; 285 = 340 flywheel(my guess)
Max torque; 360 = 420 flywheel
So my torque was pretty good but my Horsepower was lagging, I guess that is a characteristic of pontiacs; long stroke, small bore.

this was the best out of three runs, at about 4000rpm and up the graph line got all squigly and they pointed out that i was probalby running into some kind of detonation, which was taking away from my power. also when touching the distributor to change the timing He got shocked, so we think my MSD spark plug wires are grounding out or something??? So i think there might still be some more power to be had. But the tuning part was great, turns out I was way too lean in the secondaries, and my primary squirters was way too big, so i change from 78 jets to 82's in the secondaries which gave me exactly 13.1 AF ratio at WOT, much better, then when i got home i changed the "brown" acc. cam in the primary accelerator pump to a "pink", this car feels like a totally different car> wayyyyyyyy better!!! I still think there is some more HP in it but in the next month or so, out comes Pontiac, in comes the Big Block 600+ HP 454!!
Also my friend with his 98 WS6 firebird with 3.73 gears, throttle body, air lid, chip, and borla cat back exhaust made
305 Horse
313 Torque
, so he only had about 20 more horse than me, but i have 40 more torque! plus i still think i could get to 300HP with a little more tuning

.

Were you gonna say something smart ehh?? ;) go ahead i don't get offended easily.

no, he was going to put in his .02 but he decided to save it for his first motor.

Maybe Camaro was jelous of the 454 upgrade and noticed there was no period to the end of story and didn't want to hear any more. I could take that attitude for fun. Maybe it's an attitude floating around as a possibility here in my chuckling room. Hehehe but never fear I wont be jelous. I'll just romp and stomp when the lights turns green and leave that BB behind. Sounds about right for bracket racing right.
Anyway I hope that 454 has all the right stuff in it already being 600hp. I've thought about going BB but man heads and such are killers for prices.

2 cents tongue.gif , I know what you mean, I just spent nearly $2200 on some AFR heads, i am hoping for around 620-640 horse a.k.a. burn too much rubber

What is your 454 combo Cody? 620-640 HP is a pretty serious 454. I've caught bits and pieces of your project from various posts here and there, but what is the "final" combo? Heads, compression, cam, etc.

Not bad at all on the Pontiac motor. really. Pontiacs have dinky intake valves and long strokes so they do make lots of TQ. Besides that, people often think they have a lot more HP than they do and get surprised when they put their engine on a dyno. BTW drivetrain losses with an automatic are probably closer to 20 or even 25%

I just dont get why your spending money to dyno your current pontiac engine while you're building another engine.
Maybe instead of listening to the bull**** AFR told you, you should have taken a tip from Tom Baird (mc71454) and used the canfeilds he is currecntly using, since of course you HAD to have aluminum heads.
Who are you to make fun of me? You dont even know where to buy CORE plugs for a big block chevy at!!
Try Federal Mogul, heck even easier, OPEN JEGS.
hey look!!! i can find em!!! part number 787-830002
Want me to explain how to install them to, tough guy?

As for Dceresa, thats a bit of a smart *** comment from someone who hires out to an idiot to have his engine built. Ever think that you might want to check up on the guy before hand??

Personally, I work at the machine shop where i'm doing my engine work as well. I work along side the owner/machinist and have seen first hand the excellent work he does. I am one of 3 employees working there, one is my brother and one is his son.

Hey CNC your right but i am able to learn from my mistakes and move on. Don't be so bitter about everything christ, you work in a machine shop you should be the happiest kid on the playground.

then what the hell are you jumping all over me leaving a dot for?
I decided it was unnecassary to say, until you people jumped all over me.

I am a little bitter myself lately, you just seemed to have an attitude about everything. But i guess that's why I'm here, to learn, so i'm going to stop stepping on this thread and start searching for some good tips on R&R ing a small block. I'll mind my own business for a while.

honestly, i have a lot things on my mind, and alot of things have been bothering me lately, that of which have nothing to do with this board, just boiled over onto it.
I'll delete my comment if needed.

Hey cody, my dad can beat up your dad! :rolleyes:

Anyway, ever take your firbird to the track?

how about building a larger tin indian engine,
kemo-sabi,like a 455,or a 428?
they all would bolt in,and look like the stock,
400 cubic inch engine! ;)

Look at the wrecking yards for mid to late '60's full size cars,like Bonnevilles,Safari wagons etc
up till 1972 should still have decent compression
{always wanted to get a '67-69 Firebird,and do this,LOL}

another perferctly good, informative thread ruined by juvenile arguments. Save it for the playground after school boys.

its okay i asked for it! :D anyway, enough of the s@#$ talking, thanks for the part number, i will look into that, I got the chassis dyno, because once the pontiac comes out I would like to sell it since it has low miles, and i wanted some numbers.
the 454 combo is;
454 .060 over=468, four bolt main
GM forged crank, 3/8 forged dimple rods
SRP 28CC dome pistons/plasmamoly rings
10.7-1 compression/8.15 DCR
Ultradyne 288/296 solid cam on a 112LCA with 612/630 lift
AFR 305CC rectangle port head= peak flow 360@600 lift on intake, 275@600 on exhaust(flows more but my cam only has about 630 lift)with very excellent low lift numbers
balanced and blueprinted(zero deck, align honed,.....)
VIctor jr.
Holley HP950
Super comp 2 inch headers
Milodon oil system;pan,windage tray, pan baffle
dr. gas X pipe; 3.5 into X, 3 inch out to 3 inch ultraflows
Richmond five speed(hopefully sell pontiac motor and buy six speed)
Big old fat fuel system
and of course NO TRACTION!
CNC In response to your AFR comment please do yourself a favor and read this thread!! If you did any research you would see Canfields are a good starting point, if you want to spend a bunch on porting but i wanted a bolt on head, and the canfields flow much less, have a weaker casting, and are all around a step down.
http://pub136.ezboard.com/fbulletinboard16340horsepowertalk.showMessage?topi cID=1190.topic
thanks for the responses.

Wait a second, hey CNC can you read? i didn't say freeze plugs!!! that is a freezeplug kit, i am talking about the water passage plugs at the bottom of the block and all of the other miscellaneous plugs that go in the exterior of a big block, not oil gallery and cam plugs!

Caveman...if you can find a good 428 poncho motor in a local junk yard ill buy the whole active board a round of beers. Its the best motor pontiac built outside the RamAir V wich never actually hit production. But there arent alot of them. I agree though i think its way cooler to see a pontiac with a pontiac motor instead of a small or big block chevy. Im not knocking putting a BBC in it, but no one does poncho motors anymore, and the aftermarket is there for them you just have to find it. Im just a Pontiac fan at heart...sorry i got carried away ill shut up now smile.gif

"water passage plugs at the bottom of the block"

the exterior of the block?? humm smart guy, what would they be called?? oh yeah CORE PLUGS!

I have one of the sbc kits, and they include the exterior, large plugs, cam plugs, and other msc. interior plugs.

open mouth, insert foot!

[ 04-19-2003, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: CamaroNOTcamero ]

You know ive been quiet about this crap but ive heard about enough out of you CNC i dont care if people voice their opinions. In fact even if i think its wrong i still dont care, but when your getting so nit picky as to what certian water/oil/freeze plugs are called just for the sake of rubbing it in somones face.....who cares, every thread i see you in your cutting somone down, or bitching about somthing else. Let the guy chassis dyno his poncho motor. Maybe he did it so when he sells the motor he can give anaccurate power figure and prove it...thats a big selling point, so lay off. Hey man, just cause you can maybe machine a SBC dosent make you Smokey Yunick.... it means you know how to run a machine, so quit being a jerk. Sorry but i had to throw my 2 pennys in on an already ruined thread.

And most of these jerks on here who claim i dont know what i'm talking about dont know how to run any of them, further more, the above guy doesnt know where to find "freeze" or "core" plugs, thinks that the price tag on the heads determines how well they will preform, and spends more money to dyno an engine he's selling.
I will not now or ever take any abuse from Cody, and keep in mind i edited my first post, he asked for it with his response.
You're not selling the whole car, its a waste of money.
I'm glad you met Onovakind, he's one of very few on this board that i have alot of respect for.
I'm walking away from this board for now, so let out a hurrah. I may stop back time to time for small questions, but the next post i put in this Performance forum will include ET's.
Expect that somewhere about the start of next racing season.
Until then, good day!

This ones done!!