Hello, I am trying to get a little info about my car. It looks like is was originally a manual since it still has the clutch pedal. It has multi leaf springs with 5 springs. It has a cowl hood, the hinge springs are 26 coil and measure aprx 9 1/4" in length. It currently has a 327 which I am almost positive isn't the original engine. The rear is an unoriginal 10 bolt. Thanks for any help you can give
Ryan.

http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs114.snc1/4955_526054416651_108000272_31276822_3865017_n.jpg
http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs114.snc1/4955_526054421641_108000272_31276823_6052096_n.jpg

Where does the speedometer cable exit the firewall? Between the steering column and the fender or on the other side of the steering column higher up near the shift tunnel?

Ryan,

Do you know how to find the hidden VIN on the upper cowl? I'd suggest you take a look and see if it matches the VIN you posted in the photo. That VIN is an August 69 car but the trim tag is from February 69 so something is a little fishy.

Oh boy, no I do not know where the hidden VIN is. I would definitely like to check it though.

Ryan, look through this page: http://www.camaros.org/numbers.shtml It should explain what you are looking for. As Dave said, the VIN is for a car built way after the tag says it was built. Hopefully the hidden VINs match the VIN on the dash.

Oh boy, no I do not know where the hidden VIN is. I would definitely like to check it though.

http://www.camaros.org/numbers.shtml#PartialVIN

This will show you where it's located. Sometimes you can see it with a bright flashlight without removing the upper cowl panel. Hopefully you can see it and see if it matches the VIN in the photo.

BTW, it's the cowl partial VIN you are looking for. The other one requires you to remove the heater box cover...not an easy job and more than you need right now. Let us know what you find and we can point you in the right direction.

Ok, I went and checked and its pretty dirty under there. Is it basically four bolts to remove the cowl cover? Also what is the best way to remove the wiper arms. That is probably a stupid question but I don't want to tear anything up.

Ok, I went and checked and its pretty dirty under there. Is it basically four bolts to remove the cowl cover? Also what is the best way to remove the wiper arms. That is probably a stupid question but I don't want to tear anything up.

To do it right and not damage the paint you need a tool specifically designed to pull the wiper arm straight off but if you are VERY careful you can do it by hand. Just remember that they are spring loaded to apply pressure to the arms and it can surprise you once it releases......not a big deal but be careful of the paint. After the arms are off you remove the four screws and the panel slides forward and out.

Are the tools available at a parts store or is it something you have to order? I can't seem to get it. My paint isn't nice at all but I still don't want to scratch it.

You should be able to get the tool at NAPA or someplace similar. Not to put the fear of God into you, but if your VINs don't match, someone has more than likely switched the VIN plate on the dash (not real likely, but you never know). Does your registration match your VIN? Odds are that someone has switched the trim tag out.

The title matches the trim plate on the dash. I am worried the car is stolen now and I can't get my darn wiper arms off hahaha. Then if the Vin on the dash matches the hidden Vin, and that means the trim tag does not belong on the car, how will I be able to decode my car?

More than likely your VINs all match, so don't panic just yet. If the tag has been changed, you won't be able to decode your car without some investigative work or original documentation for the car. Pop the rear seat back out of the car when you get a chance and see if you can find a X1, X2, X3, etc written in chalk on the bulkhead between the rear seat and the trunk. After you do that and confirm your hidden VIN under the cowl panel, we can help you more.

Yeah, the Vin thing worries me because I have a baby on the way and I need to sell the car. So I just want to make sure everything is good to go before I sell it. It is a basket case but I don't want to rip anyone off.

Where do you live Ryan? Maybe there is someone local to you that is a TC member that can lend you one or help. More then likely you have a Pep Boys, Advanced Auto or NAPA somewhere nearby and they should have the tool. It's pretty simple and shouldn't cost more than $10.

If you search the forums for "wiper arm removal" there are some good explanations but no pics. This one shows the inexpensive tool.

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=61941&highlight=wiper+arm+removal

Like Brian said...don't panic yet....get them off and see what you have first and then the folks here can give you some suggestions.

Ok, I am going to go get the tool today. I don't feel as dumb after I searched and saw that everyone has trouble getting them off. I will let you guys know what I find. You guys are a huge help. Thanks.
Ryan

Alright guys, the good new is I got the wiper arms off. After driving around town I found noone had the tool. Bad news is, the vins are not the same. the hidden vin is 9N602067. Please instruct me on what I should do now.

Not Good. The vin plate and hidden vin mismatch puts you in quite a predicament. Can't legally sell without disclosing what you know and few buyers are going to touch such a car unless buying for parts or turning it into a dedicated racer.

The right thing to do is contact your DMV and see what they recommend. Likely they'll want to send someone to verify the hidden vin and run a stolen car check against it. If there is a stolen hit on the hidden vin you'll lose the car. If no stolen hits come up there may be some process through your DMV to get this issue resolved. At least then you might have something on paper to assist with a private party sale.

How long have you owned this car? Do you have the previous owner's information? He/ she might be able to provide some info that could be helpful.

I have owned this car since 1996, I was 14 when I bought it. My dad is the one who did all of the wheeling and dealing. As you can imagine I don't have any of the previous owners info. My luck it is stolen and I will lose it. Here comes the fun.

I'm sorry you are in this predicament Ryan. This has happened to a few others on this forum though I can't recall their outcomes.

Could be a legitimate reason the hidden vin and attached vin plate don't match. Some state vehicle regulations permit use of junkyard bodies as "replacement" parts for titled vehicles with extensive damage. Could be someone in the last 40 years grafted the dash & vin you have title to onto one of these "replacement" parts.

Have you ever looked for or found any evidence of previous major bodywork anywhere on this car? Do you recall the state it was purchased in if different from your current location?

It has def had bodywork. The passenger rear floorboard is wrinkled up pretty good. So it has obviously been hit on that side. I also remeber years ago I went to get it aligned and they couldn't get it perfect. They told me they thought maybe the frame or Control arm were bent. As long as it's not stolen then I will be ok with it. It needs major bodywork so I wasn't hoping on getting a lot of money out of it. I am going to have a frind of mine who is a cop run the 2 different VIN's for me.

I wish you the best of luck... :(

Best of luck Ryan, let us know how it turns out.

Good luck with it Ryan and I hope it turns out well for you. Your cop buddy is probably gonna have a hard time since he/she probably can't run a 13 digit VIN so it'll come back negative either way. Your best bet may be going to the DMV or finding the previous owner.

You might wanna PM "Kurt S" and see if he has any info on either VIN. He is one of the guys that maintains a huge database on first gen Camaro's for this site and CRG. He might have some info for ya.

Dang, Ryan, I figured someone had just switched the trim tag. I'd say now the VIN on the dash has been changed :angry:. Hopefully the car comes back clean and you don't have too much problem with it. Best of luck! Where are you located?

More than likely your VINs all match, so don't panic just yet. If the tag has been changed, you won't be able to decode your car without some investigative work or original documentation for the car. Pop the rear seat back out of the car when you get a chance and see if you can find a X1, X2, X3, etc written in chalk on the bulkhead between the rear seat and the trunk. After you do that and confirm your hidden VIN under the cowl panel, we can help you more.


Brian

Where can I find out what the X1, X2, and X3 mean that are written in chalk? I have an X2 written in chalk on my original driver side tulip box. What does that mean or signify for my '69 Camaro? SEE PIC BELOW>
(sorry to hi-jack)
THanks~!

Brian

Where can I find out what the X1, X2, and X3 mean that are written in chalk? I have an X2 written in chalk on my original driver side tulip box. What does that mean or signify for my '69 Camaro? SEE PIC BELOW>
(sorry to hi-jack)
THanks~!

Todd,

That marking probably doesn't mean much. The markings on the rear seat bulkhead were for the line workers to know what the trim was on that car as it came down the line prior to them putting X codes on the trim tag. I think some cars have the marking along with the trim tag. An X1 would signify an X-11 car, X2 is an X22 and so on. I think your car is an X1 so it might have an X1 on the rear seat bulkhead, depending on it's build date. You can do a search and get good info on it.

Todd I dont see the X at all in your pic, That big huge X shaped bend is in the sheet metal. I only see a 2 there.

Todd I dont see the X at all in your pic, That big huge X shaped bend is in the sheet metal. I only see a 2 there.

Yeah, I know... I was hoping that large "2" would have some meaning. Oh well... My car was built in Aug of 69, and I didn't find any markings on the rear bulkhead when I last checked. Thanks....

Dang, Ryan, I figured someone had just switched the trim tag. I'd say now the VIN on the dash has been changed :angry:. Hopefully the car comes back clean and you don't have too much problem with it. Best of luck! Where are you located?

I am located in St Joseph, Mo. As long as its clean I will be ok. If they just took my car away, well I would probably just cry, then want to shoot the guy who switched the tag out. I was only hoping to get $6-7000 for it at most. Although that may have been a stretch. Would it still be worth something to someone who would want to make it a pro-touring car or just an unoriginal hotrod? Also from the 5 leaf springs, and the cowl hood is there any info I can gather? Does that mean it was a V8 12 Bolt car?

I am located in St Joseph, Mo. As long as its clean I will be ok. If they just took my car away, well I would probably just cry, then want to shoot the guy who switched the tag out. I was only hoping to get $6-7000 for it at most. Although that may have been a stretch. Would it still be worth something to someone who would want to make it a pro-touring car or just an unoriginal hotrod? Also from the 5 leaf springs, and the cowl hood is there any info I can gather? Does that mean it was a V8 12 Bolt car?

No Real way to tell at all what that car was with a switched Vin , The Hidden Partial dosent tell if it was a V8 or 6cyl car and you cant go by the Switched Dash Vin, The 12bolt, Multi leafs could have been added Later in an attempt to make a SS Clone. the ZL2 Hood could have been bought at any time prior to you getting the car.

Hope everything works out in a way thats fair to you for any time you have invested in the car.

Good luck with it Ryan and I hope it turns out well for you. Your cop buddy is probably gonna have a hard time since he/she probably can't run a 13 digit VIN so it'll come back negative either way. Your best bet may be going to the DMV or finding the previous owner.

You might wanna PM "Kurt S" and see if he has any info on either VIN. He is one of the guys that maintains a huge database on first gen Camaro's for this site and CRG. He might have some info for ya.


Ryan have your cop buddy run both 124379N602067 and 123379N602067, that way you have the bases covered.

Ryan have your cop buddy run both 124379N602067 and 123379N602067, that way you have the bases covered.
Ok thanks guys.

Ryan have your cop buddy run both 124379N602067 and 123379N602067, that way you have the bases covered.

Good point! I just looked up St. Joseph on Google Earth. I'm going to St. Louis the end of next month for 4 or 5 days. I thought if you were close, I'd stop by and look it over. Looks like you're a ways from St. Louis. I hope it all works out for you. Can you contact the previous owner if things go south?

Man... this just sucks. I hope it comes back clean for you, my friend.... :(

So, if it comes back clean is it basically worth dirt or what?

No info on either VIN.

Do you know for sure that the axle has been changed? Did you check the stamped code?

Some people won't care if the VIN was changed. Some won't touch it. If the state blesses it, then it won't be as big a deal to most people (aka the average Joe).

Which VIN is on the title? I assume it is the VIN on the dash?

The vin on the dash. Kurt S tells me the trim tag and cowl vent match so that makes me feel better. Well as long as it's not stolen. My cop buddy is still trying to get info. Although he ran the partial and it didn't have any stolen hits against it. I am positive the axle has been changed.
Can someone decode the trim tag for me? I think the car was yellow originally maybe. the paint is yellow on the bottom of the cowl cover.

Decode per Trimtag

Decode for body number: 265438

08D = Built the Fourth week of August.
69-12437 = Coupe.
NOR = Built in Norwood Ohio.
712 = Custom Black Bucket Seats.
76-B = Lower Color is Daytona Yellow and the Vinyl Top Color is Black.
X11 = non-SS396, non-Z28, with style trim

RYan

After re-reading this entire thread, it simply sounds like the inner cowl unit was possibly replaced at one time with a good used one. They may have even left the trim tag on the replacement cowl without even thinking about it. In the times before all this cloning, it most likely wasn't even a thought. That would account for the mis-matched vin. Your trim tag and dash vin plate are peachy. My vin and trim plate are quite similar to yours and even made in the same week. I wouldn't worry at all. Your fine... Just to be on the safe side, take lots of pics now, as the car sits for documentation of your own. That way you know what you started with, and if you ever should sell it, others will too.

I doubt anyone would replace the whole cowl with both the cowl VIN and trim tag on it. I'm pretty sure just the VIN tag was swapped.

Easy way to tell: any yellow on the inside floors or door hinge area or ......

I would more be under the impression that most Bone yards know that those areas have the hidden vins and would have sold that section with that dash area also

Decode per Trimtag

Decode for body number: 265438

08D = Built the Fourth week of August.
69-12437 = Coupe.
NOR = Built in Norwood Ohio.
712 = Custom Black Bucket Seats.
76-B = Lower Color is Daytona Yellow and the Vinyl Top Color is Black.
X11 = non-SS396, non-Z28, with style trim

Actually, pretty sure that is an 02D, not an 08D. That is why Kurt said it lined up with the hidden vin derivitive.

I doubt anyone would replace the whole cowl with both the cowl VIN and trim tag on it. I'm pretty sure just the VIN tag was swapped.

Easy way to tell: any yellow on the inside floors or door hinge area or ......
Yes sir, The underside of the cowl vent sheetmetal is yellow, as well as some portions inside the doors. That gives me hope that the trim tag and cowl vin are both for my car.

Man you guys are really knowledgeable around here. Thanks for all the awesome service.

Actually, pretty sure that is an 02D, not an 08D. That is why Kurt said it lined up with the hidden vin derivitive.

mis type on my end Lynn , but wasnt really worried with accuracy on this one

Looking at the picture of the vin plate, I thought they riveted the tag from under the dash? I finally finished my car and went to get the emmision test for plates and discovered that the vin on the title and the vin on the car are one digit off. I have owned the car since 1982 and never checked the vins. The car vin starts 526 and the title vin starts 516. To say the least I am still jumping through hoops. My expense will be a bond for double the appraised value, too bad I didn't find this out before I restored the car. The dmv made a mistake on the vin for my truck back in '99. This was discovered in 2003 and they simply changed the vin and issued me a new title. I wish you luck.
Greg