I was goin to put a 383 crate engine in my 67 camaro, but now I am thinking of taking it upon myself to build a 406. I am not an experienced engine builder. Do you think I should stick with the crate engine or try to build the 406? I am assuming the cost is about the same to build the 406 as to buy the ready-to-go crate engine. Any suggestions? I am pretty sure I could get a 400 block from my uncle cheap and then take it to the shop and have it worked over. Except I wouldn't know what to have done to the block to get it prepared. I would liked to hear any suggestions you guys have on this.

I would go with the 406.

You will need to find a competent, honest and trustworthy machine shop in your area. Ask around for references. You will also get lots of good advice from this board.

400 blocks are pretty iffy for more than a .030 overbore. Have it checked for bore size and bore taper. Have the decks checked for flatness, and have the block checked for cracks. I would consider this a minimum before spending any serious money on any used block.

Good luck with your project.

mmmm I jus love big-bore small blocks.

Before you even start, you need to decide how much power you want, and where (rpm range) these choices will determine what you gotta put into it for it to hold up.

For basic block prep, it'll need to be tanked, and then inspected and measured for bore wear. You'll probably have to have it bored at least .030", but maybe not.

If the block you get includes crank & rods, you'll probably need to use them (see above) they should be marked and inspected on disassembly.

This is a very good question...I just went through an engine rebuild last year and chose to have it built locally. My racing buddy went through one this year and based upon our experiences I will probably go crate next time.

I would look at it 3 ways.....

1. Local machine shop for machine work, but assemble it yourself. I would say shy away from that unless you have experience and will be building many engines. The reason I shied away is that you need to have a lot of precision specialty tools to do it right. They are very expensive and if you plan to build one engine every 5 years it's just not worth it to buy the tools. The upside is the personal satisfaction of knowing you did it yourself. This is our hobby and it feels good to do-it-yourself.

2. Have a local machine shop machine and assemble it. This is a good option if you can find a quality shop in your area and this is the route I took. The down side is that often times your engine ends up in 'machine shop prison'. It can take months to get the stuff back. Depending on what you are building, you can easily have as much $$ in this as a crate engine. The up side is that if you have a problem, the guy is local and you can resolve it much easier. You also have complete flexibility in choosing the components.

3. Crate engine. The big upside here is that they ususally have a nice warranty, come already broken in and have a dyno sheet. I think Bill Mitchel has a 24 month warranty. The price is usually right, the quality pretty good and it can be at your door in a matter of weeks. The down side is that you may have to compromise on which components you use if they only offer certain 'packages'. Also, dispute resolution involves shipping an engine around. Finally, most of these come with a new block like a Motown which can add $1200+ over the cost of using a seasoned block if you wanted to.

for a little counterpoint... Yes, to do a thorough and accurate engine blueprint, you need special tools, mostly measuring devices, but...

Plastigage is cheap as dirt, and reasonably accurate.

You CAN measure piston to wall clearance and end play with feeler guages.

If you're really down and dirty, if you can still turn the crank after you torque the mains, that's a pretty good indication the clearances are "ok" and everything is straight.

If you have the rods resized and new bolts pressed in, buy your bearings for the same guy and I'll bet he'll mic em for free is you ask.

If you have the same guy tank your block and regrind and balance your crank, I'll bet he'll mic the main clearances, too.

It's just plain fun to assemble your own engine... and there is no substitute for the grin you'll have when you first fire it up!

I've never owned a micrometer big enough to measure a crank journal, and I've never had an engine I built fail. (and no, I haven't done a hundred, but I've done a dozen.)

I was going to do my own and found a great shop. Told the owner what all I wanted and he explained what was good and what was so so in my choices.Paul<owner> also gave a warrenty if he assembled. Assembly was cheap?? $200 over cost?

Now 10 years later motor still pulls great, doesn't smoke,and all bearings looked great during a re-seal before going into my Camaro.

I have a few specialty tools, but have found that I really don't use them anymore when assembling an engine. For street use, I can get what I want out of a home job if I take my time and be sure not to rush through anything. I follow a checklist to make sure I don't screw up if I get distracted. So my vote is for the 406 do-it-yourself job. A good machinist will know how to prep your block, you don't need to worry about what needs to be done. Just make sure the machinist installs the cam bearings in the process, I have heard of some machinists who leave this out, which is no good.

it's really not hard...key is clean, it's gotta be spotless, especially the cylinders. Wipe em with oil, till the towel comes out clean. I go thru a whole roll a viva's before i start sliding pistons in.

automatic tranny fluid is what i wipe the cylinders down with, thats after everything gets scrubbed and gets the 1 over with laquer thinner. I also agree from an above post, there is no better feeling than hearing your motor that you built and designed, come to life and run for 20 minutes...

Put the mufflers on tho, that way you can hear any bad things soon enough to shut it down.

I totally agree, cleanliness is key. Even if I have a block all prepped and waiting for my wallet to provide it with parts, i still go down to the shop at least twice a week and clean it up with lube and WD-40 to keep it clean and free of rust. Not only does this make for a cleaner engine, but it gets you used to the idea of perhaps moving your engine into a cleaner space than the garage, for example into a room where dust and moisture is lessened (wooden floors are great engine building rooms since they tend to be dry). The Wifey may not like the idea of a "greasy engine" in one of the rooms, but it is easy to convince her that a clean dry engine in a room is better than a dirty rusty engine in HER car, heheheh. Yeah, the mintute you make reference to something being "hers" she will lighten up. I felt like Red Green when I wrote that last bit, lol.

Here is machine shop in my area. Could you guys check this out and see if their prices for machine work is reasonable. I have no clue on what is the normal charge for this kind of work.

Kevin

oops... Forgot to add a link to the website


http://www.proautoinc.com/shopprices.htm

Before you get your heart set on a 406, I'd take a look and see if tere are any decent 400 blocks in your area. They are pretty hard to find around here and those that have the cores all seem to know what they've got and ask for a pretty penny.

That is the key... finding a good rebuildable core, preferably with a good crank. Everyone knows what they're worth these days, they see an sbc with 3 freeze plugs and start seeing $$$.

When I did my 400 back in '82, NOBODY WANTED THEM!!! Said they were "weak" and "didn't cool right" I picked up my shortblock, FROM SOMEONE WHO WORKED AT MY FAVORITE SPEEDSHOP for $50! He pulled it to put in a 350, and thought he was ripping me off on this "truck motor!!"

Danm thing was prime, too, didn't even have to bore it. honed it out to .0065 clearance for forged pistons and put it together...hehe

Motor was a pure torque monster, ran it for seven years in 2 cars before I sold it.

It's strange how 400 blocks are rare in some places, yet abundant in other areas. They are easy to get up here in Western Canada, perhaps because of all the farmers who hung on to their mid-70's trucks until just recently, heh. Another reason may be that the shorter summers up here make for a smaller hot rodding community, and the 400 blocks just don't get bought up as fast.

Well, there tends to be a little more dirt track racing in the south and that is where 400s can be pretty hard to find bc they were all sucked up about 20+ years ago.

Payed my builder $200 yesterday for mine, it is a 2bolt though around 73 heavy cast block, added arp main stud kit for strength. SS

Yea 400 block are getting harder to fine, however I was lucky and got a 400 block for $50.00. Good thing this guy did not have a clue about the value of the block. You can take a look at what I have accomplished with the $50.00 block.
http://community.webshots.com/user/dtl504

first off, by all means build it yourself. no time like the present to learn, and there is absolutely no better reward than when you fire the motor YOU put together. i've been doing it since i was 16 (no i'm not 17 ;) ). the tools you need are not that outrageously spendy imo, you can get inexpensive mics and such, you dont need top o' the line stuff for home assembly. and hell, i have built quite a few with just plastigauge, it does work, i just dont trust it on a motor that will get "spun" a lot. you gotta just go for it, dont be intimidated graemlins/thumbsup.gif
as for the 400's, i bought mine out of a wrecking yard for 100$, as a rebuildable core. i know of 2 unbored runners that i could have for 300$ each, but all i want is the block, so i'm holding off for now. they are definately around here, but you have to know where to look, some people want wayyy to much for them. look at the smaller wrecking yards.
in fact i'm looking for a block right now, for my future plans :D , but i'm thinking real serious about aftermarket blocks, i.e. motown/dart. heres the deal, think about total cost to make a stocker hold up (i'm talking about pretty stout motors here btw, 550+ horse), by the time you get good main caps, and required machine work, your easily halfway to an aftermarket block, that you can start out as a standard 4.125 bore, so it should live longer, not to mention just being a better more ridgid block, that also lends itself to 4.00 cranks more readily than a stocker, thats why i'm seriously considering this, and just thought i'd throw it out for consideration.
just my thoughts/ .02 graemlins/beers.gif

Joe Sherman said in the engine masters series that he can put idential (as in the EXACT SAME PARTS) an aftermarket block (after they have been in a production block) and pickup 20hp min. Very cost effective with the prices of late.

My uncle has a quite a few blocks with 4 bolt mains. How can I tell if its a 400 block?

three freeze plugs on the sides is a dead giveaway, but some had two. best bet is casting numbers, there are only about three different ones, all 400 specific.

look for the last three digits , they should be 509 , 511 can't remember the third .

817

Thanks for the info smile.gif I will keep you updated on what I find and if I do find one whether or not I decide to build it myself. I do have access to some tools, but maybe not the ones I need to do the build.

Kevin

This is a shop pretty close to me..Do their prices on machine work look reasonable? I have no idea what something like this would cost, so I don't want to get ripped off.

http://www.proautoinc.com/index.htm

Kevin

I have a buddy in the Indy area. I'll ask him about it. Also, I'll ask him if he is interested in building an engine for you and what it would cost.

He is a die hard drag racer and seems to do a bang up job on engines with lots of attention to detail.

Do not get the 4 bolt 400 blocks. They are weak around the journal areas. You are better off with ARP rod bolts on the 2 bolt blocks. Plus the 2 bolt blocks are beafier.

Good News! graemlins/thumbsup.gif A buddy of mine found a 2-bolt 400 sbc block from a coworker for $100. I have not got the numbers from the block yet, but I have been told that it has not been touched. Now instead of taking the easy way out and purchasing a ZZ383 crate engine, I am going to build a 406. I will probably be coming here often for help and support on the build. I have never built an engine from the block up so this will be a new experience. Hopefully this will be worth it and not cause too many headaches.

I have never heard that 2-bolt 400 blocks are better than 4-bolt main ones. Truth is, 400 4-bolt main blocks are nowhere near as plentiful as the 2-bolt version. Personally I would rather have a 4-bolt main block just as well as a 350 4-bolt main block. These guys did the machine work on my 4-bolt main and they build round track motors so they know which one is stronger (4-bolt mains) http://www.hamnerracingengines.com/contact.htm

4-bolt blocks crack around the outer bolts because of the thin web.
Thats why the 2-bolt block are more desirable.

That is arguable as I have yet to see one crack there and have owned 2 in the past and would rather have a 4-bolt main anyday! If that was a problem then I am sure Hamner Racing Engines would have alerted me to that fact as 2-bolt are readily available here. Besides they have been using 400's on dirt track cars a long time.

This post has motivated me to find out how much it would cost to do my 400 block I have in my garage. I called a very reputable rebeild shop here in town and got prices. The price range I got was from $1200 to $1700 to have the short block done. The price difference depends on piston type, cam, arp studs or not , blue print and balance, ect. This is with them assembling it. Assembly fee is $150. Then rest of the cost depends on heads intake carb, and how much of the work you will do yourself. As been stated earlier, it is important to start with a block that is rebuildable. They said to bring it by and he would let me know what shape it was in free of charge. By the way, I already have rods crank and block. Hope this helps