Logically I'm thinking it's the motor, but would like to hear a confirmation before I plunk down the bucks for a new one. My passinger side quit... both switches wont work it.
All the other other windows still work, so it couldn't be a ground, could it? If it's a circuit breaker, wouldn't the other windows be dead?

Thanks,

John

Generally, power for the pass and other window motors go through the drvr switch.
You might pull the door panel and/or window switch and apply battery power to the pass window switch to see if motor works in both directions.

Very seldom does a motor go bad.

Last night I pulled the Passenger panel off an applied power right to the motor and "nuthin", so it's gotta be the motor... right?

I did get a major spark when I lifted the other end of the clip from my jumper cables... is that a clue?

Did you hook one lead to a ground and then the positive to one of the motor terminals? One terminal will power the motor up while the other powers it down. If you hooked up ground to one and positive to the other, it would definitely spark.

Last night I pulled the Passenger panel off an applied power right to the motor and "nuthin", so it's gotta be the motor... right?

I did get a major spark when I lifted the other end of the clip from my jumper cables... is that a clue?It depends on the hookup of power. The motors are DC and to change direction, you change polarity across the two wires to the motor. No connection is made to ground.

It depends on the hookup of power. The motors are DC and to change direction, you change polarity across the two wires to the motor. No connection is made to ground.

Mine did not work this way. I applied 12V to one of the terminals and it raised and then moved the 12V to the other terminal to lower. If I hooked up 12V across the terminals it sparked and did not work.

Logically I'm thinking it's the motor ...

... All the other other windows still work, so it couldn't be a ground, could it? ...

Thanks,

John

Generally, power for the pass and other window motors go through the drvr switch. ...

... Very seldom does a motor go bad.

Uhmmmm - well yes it could be a ground ;)
What Everett says about the switch suppling power to the 'other' (or other side motor from this master switch) - in the words of the great John Wayne - 'Ain't exactly true' :noway:
On Gm cars, the drivers side switch does supply 12vdc (Hot) power to the passenger or rear side windows if this master switch is being used to activate them.
BUT - if the other individual switches are activated from their respective positions - then the master switch acts as the ground path for that switch!
Trust me on this - carefully read the schematic and you will see the 'Pink' wire (normal color for most GM vehicles) supplies power to the individual switches in ALL positions. Then each switch, which is a MOM-DPDT, will have a NC connection back through the master switch to the ground wire (Black) in the master switch only - no other 'ground' path is used in the individual switched - they ALL ground back through the master!
[e.g.: If you activate the passenger front door window switch to lower - the power from the 'Pink' (12vdc Hot) goes through switch to the 'Brown' wire out to the motor and then back through the 'Blue' wire back through the switch NC connections for it to the 'Blue w/White' back over to the Master switch then through the NC connection on it to the Ground 'Black' wire to the firewall connection.] - clear enough isn't it :D
One sign of a bad individual switch (the NC connection is bad) or broken door wire is that one window will work only in one direction - say the passenger side will only go down, then the problem is in the drivers side door switch or wiring to it from the passenger switch (no ground back) not furnishing the necessary ground path - to test, all you have to do is provide a temp ground path and the switch(s) should both work again, then go fix the problem ...

I've spent years working on these things and it took me a long time to learn how to troubleshoot one in minutes that folks have messed with for days :(

With all that said - I also would think it is the motor (I do agree with Everett here - they rarely fail!) in your case.
But, I would still test-jump it in place to be sure before you start to replace.

Sorry this was so long :sad:

ps: Some different years and models have used a remote relay system and a few other twists to the design - but the above discribed system is the most common GM design used for most years on most models!

Thanks John, I love long posts, they help you learn! I'll try the test jump again, with one positive only to either point and grounding the other to the door. If that doesn't do it, then it's gotta be the motor.

Anyone ever try to rebuild one of these things? Could it just need new brushes?

Or, perhaps a good place to purchase one? I'm not sure I want to spend $200.00 on it right now...

Thanks again guys for all your advice!

-jd

Thanks John for the explanation - truly informative. -30 points for my lab..........always good to learn from the experts.
JD, you might look for a local auto electric shop selling Standard Motor Products for the individual motor.

Mine did not work this way. I applied 12V to one of the terminals and it raised and then moved the 12V to the other terminal to lower. If I hooked up 12V across the terminals it sparked and did not work.

This is how they are wired.

3 terminals.........

1 ground
1 for up
1 for down

john,

i dont think there are 3 terms. on them. if i remember correctly, its just two wores. a blue one and i think a brown one. when one is switched for positive, the other one becomes the negative.

someone correct me if im wrong.

Yes, just two on mine...

John

tap it lightly with a hammer while the key is on and the switch is pushed down, maybe the stater brushes in the window motor is stuck..sounds like your motor is bad! doesnt sound that complicated if its been working all along!

Yes, just two on mine...JohnIf two wires, then polarity is changed to motor to reverse direction selected.
And as John suggests, drvr switch provides power and ground/return to remote switches, but remote switches and drvr switch provide polarity to raise/lower window, I would think.

I could be pulling a failing grade on this lab........

... always good to learn from the experts...


Hummm - not quite, my friends used to call me 'Sparky' - so most of my experience is hard won :o

If two wires, then polarity is changed to motor to reverse direction selected.
And as John suggests, drvr switch provides power and ground/return to remote switches, but remote switches and drvr switch provide polarity to raise/lower window, I would think.

I could be pulling a failing grade on this lab........

Correct! The polarity is 'switched' by the respective door or master switch via their internal N.C. set of contacts in each switch.
So, when you toggle the switch, the polarity of the output to the motor is set to the direction you want the window to move.
(note: when 'retro-fitting' a set of power windows into a car it can get really, really , really (...) frustrating if you accidently reverse one (yes, just one) set of wires at the master switch. Just a little hint for those planning this in the future ... :o )

So Everett gets an "A" in this lab - now read chapter 12 tonight and prepare for the test tomorrow :D
I'll be up half the night writting the answers on my palm so I can pass :sad:

Darn it, my book is in my locker.....hmmm......Thanks for the "A"!
Nice being an alumni of the School Of Hard Knocks.

Back to our regularly scheduled program.

just hood up a pos and neg to the motor while its still in the door. then you will know for sure if its the motor. or, just put a circuit tester to the wires to check to see if its getting any power.

OOK.

Now I remember!

The harness to the pass side door for instance has three wires 1 ground 2 positive

The motor is grounded to the door and has 2 positive wires.

The switches simply supply voltage to UP...or DOWN...

They don’t reverse the polarity like they do on modern cars.

On modern cars, the switches themselves actually reverse the polarity. The motors don’t rely on being grounded in the door.

just hood up a pos and neg to the motor while its still in the door. then you will know for sure if its the motor. or, just put a circuit tester to the wires to check to see if its getting any power.

So........when you connects a pos and neg to the motor...the neg should be connecdted to the BODY of the motor!

The two spades on the motor connector are for POSITVE only!

So if he connects it AS rs1968ss suggested in post # 4 it should work.

connecting it like post # 5 will not.

I he were to connect neg and pos to the two spades on his motor he would not get any movement!

AS rs1968ss suggested

What happened after your post #8?

Did it work?

The switch rotates the ground, and the hot wires,

The switch rotates the ground, and the hot wires,

John, are you talking about a 1st gen with factory power windows?

I truly believe the ground stays the same.....positive is switched between the 2 terminals on the motor.One terminal for up and the other for down.

Ground stays connected and is not switched.

John, are you talking about a 1st gen with factory power windows?

I truly believe the ground stays the same.....positive is switched between the 2 terminals on the motor.One terminal for up and the other for down.

Ground stays connected and is not switched.

Bingo. The switch provides 12V to one of the wires (depending on the position of the switch). Just hook your ground lead to the chassis or metal part of the regulator assembly and your 12V to ONE of the terminals. If the motor does not move then try the other terminal. If it does not move in either direction then you have a bad motor.
I tested mine this way before I installed them in the car.

John, are you talking about a 1st gen with factory power windows?
... Ground stays connected and is not switched.

:o okay - a big 'mia Copa' here ...
You are correct - seems that the F-bodies and a couple other odd models stayed with the older GM wiring system for the power windows after 1965 - my bad :D
I've worked on Cadillac's and Old's power stuff for many years and guess I was more familiar with their systems (the 'newer' GM standard after the 1965 model years).
Power stuff is sorta rare on many Chevy products until later years ...
I did put power windows in one 67 I owned and now do remember it was wired 'odd' compared to most I've worked on.

Sooo - as you discribed, the power (12vdc) wire is run to two (2) seperate direction (up & down) terminals from the main power source via the 'master' and the individual door switches and provides power to the direction terminal you select with switch movement (i.e. up or down).
All ground paths are via the motor housing to the door inself.

That you for pointing that out John :thumbsup:
I have a line on a set of power windows for a 68 ragtop right now and I was thinking of instlling them in mine. This will come in handy :D
Like they say - 'you learn (or re-learn) something new everyday' :yes:
This is why I love this site :hurray:

But hey - if you do work on anything newer than a 1st Gen. you'll now know how those systems work and will be able to amaze (and possibly amuse ;) ) your friends :beers:

ps: Everett and I will be staying after 'school' tonight and writting on the blackboard - "we WILL read the schematics for Camaro's" 100 times, each ...

Still no worky... here's where I'm at:

1967 w/ power windows.

Restored in '98 w/ new wiring harnesses. All windows worked (some were Slloooww).

Early '00's the Driver Main switch was acting up, got a new one, worked good.

Last year my passenger window would not work with either switch, all other windows work. The window was in the up position.

Last week, I pulled off the door panel (a pain on a deluxe interior!) and via cables, applied power directly to the motor prongs (switched the leads too) and it didn't work.

Last night I did it again, this time applying power and then also grounding the other prongs to the door (switching the leads too), Still no worky...

I'm all set to yank out the motor, convinced that's my problem when I thought I'd see if I'm getting power through the wire itself and after I hooked up my meter, I wasn't.

Could it not be BOTH, the motor and the switch???

Frustrated by the thought of pulling apart the other side, I put it back together to tackle another day... (summers to short and I wanna drive it, I'll just sweat a little :D).

Thanks to all for the advice!

JD

If you have amperage function of 10 amps, you might hook the meter in series with power and the motor to see if motor is drawing current - draws current and no worky - broke/frozen or stuck window; no current shown is broken wire or bad brushes inside motor.

ps: Everett and I will be staying after 'school' tonight and writting on the blackboard - "we WILL read the schematics for Camaro's" 100 times, each ...I'm up to 247 lines.....I need more chalk......

Good call on the amp meter! I was going to have him make sure the door itself is grounded.......

Pull it out and try it....ground the body of the motor to battery neg and power to one of the spade terminals.......then the other.......

Vintage 68...no worries........Get that power window set-up for the convertible!

They are HARD TO FIND!

Probably worth $1,000 or more depending on a few things......

Fun to have.....