I have a fairly original base 1969 coupe. Everything is original minus some maintenance items. Tag list PNT as 57 57. I am stripping car for paint and it shows original color everywhere except roof. Car had one very old repaint and has all original panels in incredible shape.

When I stripped the sail panels I noticed that someone cut off and tapped down the tabs for vinyl top moldings. They simply put a bit of plastic over them. They are visible from underneath and are in the exact pattern as verified by another car.

Here is the question: Possible it had trim and painted roof? There are zero signs of even surface rust in all the usual vinyl top spots. Not even a trace of pit around the modlings. 2 pieces of the top trim were in the trunk. It has painted gutter trim.

Any ideas of 57 57 having a painted or vinyl top??? I read all the tag sites and think I am reading correct that the double 57 means solid color car?

Any help would be greatly appreciated I want to keep orig car.

57 57 definitely says solid color. No vinyl, no trim. There were painted roof/trim cars, but it would show on the tag.

I don't necessarily subscribe to the "anything could happen" theory (and playing a little bit of devil's advocate here), so I'll ask if the hidden VINs match the VIN plate on the dash?

You're reading the PNT code on the trim tag correctly: "57 57" is a Fathom Green car with no vinyl top and no contrasting paint color on the roof.

If you're finding a contrasting paint color on the roof (maybe white?) and evidence that the vinyl-top trim was factory installed, then it's possible that your car was originally built in a way that didn't match the trim tag. I think those types of errors were very uncommon but not impossible.

For the restoration, I would be inclined to paint the car full Fathom Green with no vinyl top because anything else will be thought of as incorrect - no matter how well you explain your case. Others might feel differently, but I would not want to keep explaining that issue at every car show for the rest of my life.

One more thought - you might want to check the hidden VIN against the dashboard VIN to make sure they match, then also check the trim tag date to make sure that it's a good pairing with your VIN. You probably don't have any problems in that area, but it's worth checking just in case someone swapped a trim tag and/or a VIN tag from a "57 57" car onto a "57 50" body somewhere in the distant past.

Another thought is that I *think* it was fairly common for dealers to order a car w/o options, then add them at the dealer for additional $ or for the car to not come in as ordered, and the dealer to add the option, and finally, sometimes the customer ewnr back to the dealer to add an option.
Rich

That's what I was thinking as well. Maybe a vinyl top added way back in the day before the repaint?

I will pull vent panel and take some pics of vin, tags, etc. If you see car it is so original that even without looking I am safe to say that the numbers will match.

Did dealers go to the trouble of installing vinyl tops? Back them spot weld equipment to set the tabs would not be too common. Now they are $299 on EBAY. I am going to pull both front and rear glass and see if there are any color traces. If this car did have a vinyl top I do not know where they stored it as the roof does not show any signs of corrosion.

I will post pics and info in a day or so and thanks for the info.

I dont think anyone would try to weld the original type of studs on. They would use the threaded studs. If it has the welded studs I would bet they came from the factory. Just my 2 cents.

If anybody is still interested a little more info....

Ok hidden vin does match as do all other numbers on car. Hard to take pics of tabs that are ground down. One or two were just tapped down and covered with bondo. There are traces of white paint in the rear window area.

Never heard of screw on tabs? Anyway the tabs that are on the car are steel not brass/copper type available and applied with stud puller. Not sure if there were ever available in steel even in 69 or 70's???? Any older body guys?

I am going to pull tank to see if any sheet is under there. I think I am going with factory fathom green with white painted top??? Possible just not on tag??? Lead work is finished off nice as if painted car.

... the tabs that are on the car are steel not brass/copper type available and applied with stud puller. Not sure if there were ever available in steel even in 69 or 70's???? Any older body guys?
...

The factory applied pins are steel. They are shaped with a small flatted crown (top), sorta like a thick nail.

Dealers quite often added accessories, like vinyl tops, A/C & ect., to cars to dress them up a little for sale - they tended to make more from the added-on accessory vs. the factory pricing and allowed them to customize cars for their local markets.
Most dealers would farm out the installation of something like a vinyl top as they didn't have the internal deptartments to do that level of work. It would not be that uncommon for a local trim-shop to have the speciallized equipment to install the studs if they tended to do tops for several dealers or offered the service to customers. The specialized guns to install them were available from several trim suppliers and were also used for many add-on moulding clips back-in-the-day. I knew of many trim shops in SoCal that used the welded stud system for years.
Many dealers i visited used to just install a screw through the hole in the standard trim clip and call it good during repairs or delaer installations - you can usually spot them from the rust 'leaking' from under the trim ...
Remember also that the 69's had a different layout fo the factory vinyl top that 67~68 - so if it has another design then it is most likely an aftermarket top ...

There was one Yenko (Daytona Yellow, I think) that the customer wanted a vinyl top on. So ol' Don took it to a local shop and had one installed. (anything for a sale!) The top was installed to the drip rail, like the 67-68s. Don't remember how it was trimmed off at the deck and sail panels.

No Fathom Green car would ever have a white painted top from the factory. There were no 2-tones with FG and even with a vinyl top, the top was painted body color.

I have one 69 Camaro that was 76 76 from the factory. But it looks like a possible dealer installed vinyl top car. It had a 68 style vinyl top. I'm guessing because the car is so early 08A. It had a vinyl top on it in the 80s when my dad acquired the car...it was still yellow then. There is usually a formula to most things. But I have seen some un common things in these cars...more than once.

Back in the early 70's I worked for the buyer (and owner) for a local used car dealer. Our job was to buy cars in the Chicago area and bring them back to Michigan and sell on the local lot. I can't tell you how many cars we had vinyl tops, side molding etc put on them in Chicago before we brought them back but int he 2 yrs I worked for him it was a lot, often several a week. I often brought the cars there and let the shop determine what color to put on it. Back in those days a car with a vinyl top sold well on the used car lots. Another thing we did was add wheels covers, often time we would just trade with other cars on the dealer lots we were getting the cars from.

Here is a pic of the original style pins in my project. There were a few phillips head type screw in studs that must have been replaced when an original pin rusted off and the trim got loose.

http://www.carsbyjim.com/storage/VinylTop/vinylTopPins.JPG

Not sure if this applies to a 69......but I had a 68 project that was a vinyl top car and when you pulled the front or rear glass moulding you could the holes or even the staples where it was installed.

Might be worth a look?

I will get some pics if I can get a camera going. After research I agree that it couldn't of had a white painted top. Actually after thinking about it I do like the look if done right and kept stock looking. Would keep the purists scratching their heads till they saw the tag.

I am going with some sort of later installed deal unless I can contact the previous owner who did the one cheap respray.

I had never heard of steel trim head rivets being able to be installed outside the factory before but you learn something new all the time.

Thanks for the help.