i'm working on my 350 block right now, and havent bought any parts for carbs or injectors so i'm just putting out this idea. would a hilborn fuel injector increase my MPG over a 600 DP holley? and will it increase HP over a dual plane raised plenum holley street dominator intake? which electrical system should i buy if i go for it? is it worth the extra cost? will it fit under a stock hood?
i already think it looks awsome and would make my car stand out when i go to shows.
thanks guys

almost forgot. the motor i'm planning will be as fallows. chevy vortec 1.94/1.50 heads, comp cams 260H cam, stock crank/rods, 9.35:1 hypereutetic pistons, holley high performance "street" mechanical fuel pump. dynomax cerami coated headers and dynomax sidepipes (2.5" i think)
stock push rods, rockers, oil pan and bore size.
the trans i'm planning on using is the stock PG with maybe a higher then stock stall, or i'll switch to 700-r4 and higher then stock stall if i have the $$$. stock rear (2.73 or 3.08) but planning on switching to a 3.31 posi. i think thats all the info you guys need to help me out with my idea here. any suggestions on my listed choices are also welcome and the block is an 86+ one peice rear main.

Get the book by David Visard on intakes and carbs. It explains what you want to know.
David

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Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
David's Motorsports page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/)
First Gen Suspension Page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/first_gen_suspension.htm)
67 RS 327
69 Camaro Vintage Racer
65 Lola T-70 Chev 350 Can-Am Vintage Racer

I assume you're talking about an EFI controlled Hilborn set-up. I have one on a 406 in a Cobra replica and you're right, it looks very good. It should clear a stock hood if you cut the stacks like mine are, but you'll need custom air cleaners. As far as mileage goes, it's possible you'll get better mileage under cruise due to the EFI.

There's a couple of things I've noticed about mine. With the EFI (I use a Speed Pro computer with mine) it's very smooth, starts easily when cold or hot, and very driveable.

They REALLY mellow out the camshaft. I have a solid roller in mine with 265@.050 (duration) and it sounds like a MUCH smaller cam.

They will add a bunch of low end torque versus a carb or 4 barrel throttle body/EFI set-up.

The linkage isn't too tough if you adapt to a custom cable set-up like Lokar offers. However, if you plan on running a 700R4 trans the t.v. cable set-up will be tricky and might have to be farmed out to a professional. The linkage pulls sideways versus a normal 4 barrel. A manual trans would be easier.

Also they come with no vacuum and you'll need at least one for the map sensor (If you run speed density), power brakes would require a separate one, etc. You can't just tap into one runner, you need to tap into all of them and run the lines to a junction block so there is some fabbing involved here too.

Bottom line, it's an awesome looking set-up but requires some work to get it on and working.

Jody

You can see pics of my set-up at http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1535951&a=11710402&f=0

[This message has been edited by Camcojb (edited 08-25-2001).]

Camcojb when did they start making that conversion? Looks neat the only problem that I can see is the need to run very large injectors if you are going to make any power. If you are just playing around it's a great idea. Must have super throttle response.

That intake would have nothing to do with injector sizes. Still use the same old math as you always would.

The best thing is it gets rid of all the reversion you have in a 4 bbl style with a big cam.

<--chevybuilder67
will it work with my stock Powerglide?
i can fabricate anything, my dad has 30 years of welding experience.
thanks for all the help, and the pics look good http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif nice car

i wouldn't think it would be too hard to hook up a 700R4 to it.. it is a tv cable, and if it is long enough, you could easily mount it sideways. might needs one for a tpi car, but should be no different than hooking up throttle cable.or find a way to run it thru firewall and hook to pedal directly.

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1971 Nova(looks like 69 camaro from underneath!)
355sb, vortec heads, HOT cam,T-10 tranny, 3.70 gears 16" IROC wheels

well the 700r4 is far in the future, so would this setup work with my powerglide? do i need a canister to keep my powerbrakes?

The problem with the t.v. cable hook-up isn't physically hooking it to the linkage, it's getting the arm and geometry correct so it works and doesn't harm your tranny.

A powerglide should be fine. Vacuum isn't a problem, if you've got enough now, you'll have enough (probably more) when you convert. It's the plumbing into each runner that takes some time.

Jody

DougF am I missing something? Did you look at the pictures and see exactly what he has.

Oger,

That set-up is on a 406 with 10-1 compression. It makes 460 hp and 450 ft. lbs at the rear tires. I'm running 36# injectors on it and the duty cycle doesn't exceed 75-80% (meaning that the injector isn't maxed out). The Hilborn EFI set-up uses 2 3/16" throttle blades. It supposedly flows in the 2500-3000 cfm range. It can only flow what the head port will allow though; my heads flow about 312 cfm intake at .650 lift. The injectors are sized according to the cubic inches of the engine and horsepower output. I swapped from a Super Victor manifold and 1000 cfm throttle body to the Hilborns and kept the same injectors with no problems. Remember an IR manifold has to flow at least what the port will because it can't "borrow" from the plenum like a single plane manifold set-up. But the fuel requirements are basically the same.

The car gets about 15 mpg around town; never checked highway mileage. By the way, it picked up about 30 ft. lbs. of torque over the single plane/1000 cfm t.b. set-up.

Jody

[This message has been edited by Camcojb (edited 08-26-2001).]

I understand your set up, normally it take such a large injector size with a 406 to really make HP. From the pictures yours didn't appear to be large enough. I was wrong, does it work as well as it should? if nothing else it looks great.

I think you're referring to the throttle blade diameters? I would have liked a larger one but the 2 3/16" blades are what they use for EFI. The injectors themselves look the same size whether 24 lb or 100+ lb/hr. That's where I was getting confused.

Hilborn, Shaver, etc. claim that blade size will support 700+ h.p.
But even with a larger air door (blade) I would have still run the same injectors. I was figuring on about 600 h.p. or so at the crank.

Jody



[This message has been edited by Camcojb (edited 08-26-2001).]

well this is a future project so i'll eventuly get some reading material on it. thanks for the help. by the way, do you think my engine decisions where good? if i dont use injection i'm going for a holly 600 DP and a idle-7200 range dual plane manifold. raised plenum. for the street will this be a good motor? will i get 320+ hp?

You are absolutely right. Language barrier 1 3/16 would seem small but it works that is all that matters.

Oger,

Owe you an apology. Typed 1 3/16....meant 2 3/16". Edited the above posts.

Sorry!!!!!!!!

Jody

Check out this for a computer as well it comes with custom wiring made to fit and no laptops. http://www.sdsefi.com/

Jody thats a whole different story. How is the low speed metering with that big a butterfly?

It's actually very good and smooth. And that's the SMALLEST size they use on a small block. Theory is that with a single plane/carb set-up each cylinder can have access to the entire plenum. On an IR manifold, you only get what that butterfly can flow, so you don't want to be under-sized.

I picked up 30+ ft. lbs to the ground when I put that Hilborn on versus a single-plane with a 1000 cfm throttle body. Only thing I don't like about it is it kills the cam sound at idle. My 406 has 264 @.050 and you can barely hear it lope. I was at my friend's shop today and he was tuning an all aluminum 472 cid Ford FE motor in a Cobra with an IR EFI set-up. The engine has 240-250 duration at .050 and it idles at 800 rpm DEAD SMOOTH!

Jody