I've owned my 68 camaro for about 3 months, most of the 3 months it's been in shop. List of things i've done so far
New water pump
new chrome pulleys
new belts
new timing chain
new chrome timing chain cover
new oill pan gaskets
and the latest new edelbrock 650 with new valve cover gaskets and new ignition electrical stuff so it will start correctly. This latest cost me over $1000.00 dollars and when i drove it half way down the block it choked ? I had to wait about an hour to start it and when i got it back to the shop there was water mixed with the oil in the engine ? They told me it's because i need new gaskets in the head gaskets and that the heads have to be send to the shop for getting them redone ? The bill will be like $1300.oo ? What is going on ? Does anyone know how the water from the radiator ended up inside the engine ? What went wrong ? They said they have no idea ? They are giving me a break and only charging me half the labor charges ? but it's such a sad day for me. :(

did it overheat? what was the reason for the new waterpump/ timing chain? if you cooked it it may need head gaskets. if they are blown you can get water in the oil. what motor is in it?

Take the valve covers off and see if a rocker stud pulled out of the head. Mine did that years ago after I broke one and I had a poor shop put one back in while I was 200 miles from home. They didn't use any kind of binder.

I think I spent maybe a couple hundred to have a good machine shop machine them for screw in studs, clean up the exhaust valve seats and install hardened seats, install new guides and a couple other things. I took them off myself, poured diesel through the motor to wash it out, reinstalled them, and ran some new oil for a while and drained. Those heads are still on the motor and it is still in the car.

So, if you can do some of the work yourself it'll save you a heap of money.

did it overheat? what was the reason for the new waterpump/ timing chain? if you cooked it it may need head gaskets. if they are blown you can get water in the oil. what motor is in it?
I put in a new timing chain and waterpump because i have had cars in the past leave me stranded and these are some of the things i wanted to prevent, so i did them just because i wanted reliable new stuff in the car. They are telling me i might need new head gaskets also ? But the car ran fine before i took it in ? I mean the carb left me stranded so i replaced it ?

Take the valve covers off and see if a rocker stud pulled out of the head. Mine did that years ago after I broke one and I had a poor shop put one back in while I was 200 miles from home. They didn't use any kind of binder.

I think I spent maybe a couple hundred to have a good machine shop machine them for screw in studs, clean up the exhaust valve seats and install hardened seats, install new guides and a couple other things. I took them off myself, poured diesel through the motor to wash it out, reinstalled them, and ran some new oil for a while and drained. Those heads are still on the motor and it is still in the car.

So, if you can do some of the work yourself it'll save you a heap of money.
I can't do any work myself, unfortunately i don't know how to do that sort of stuff. it does have roller rockers ? and they did replace the valve cover gaskets ? Maybe they did something wrong ? I don't know ?

did it overheat? what was the reason for the new waterpump/ timing chain? if you cooked it it may need head gaskets. if they are blown you can get water in the oil. what motor is in it?
It does have water in the oil ? is my engine going to be ok ? Should i be worried ?

I do not know whether you should be worried or not but water in the oil can be serious. The good news is that you did not report hearing anything that sounded like a banshee getting a Brazilian wax before it stopped. It sounds like the engine quit when you were just sort of idling along, which is good because it will be unlikely that you cracked a head or the block.

The guys here can help out more than I can. But, you have the car insured...right? Then, why not get them to put it in writing that the engine has failed due to water intrusion. Then, you might be able to file a claim under your insurance policy.

As for working on your own, you can always look up instructions on how to do something on the net and determine whether you think you have the skills and/or tools to do it. Replacing a water pump, belts, spark plugs, plug wires, points, pulleys...pretty easy as long as you have basic tools. Doing some of the other more "intrusive" things can be overwhelming and make you feel a little apprehensive, not to mention that some of those things requires tools that you may not have or know how to use. In addition, you may not have the room (in your garage) or clearance (enough room to work on from underneath) to do certain things.

I don't know of any conventional auto insurance policy that covers mechanical issues...

How do you know it has water in the oil? Did they drain the oil, and there's a lot of water mixed in?

Most any shop has a "sniffer" that they can insert in the radiator filler and sniff for combustion gases in the radiator (indicator of a blown head gasket). There are a number of other ways some water can get into the oil, but the amount of water and other symptoms will point to the probable cause.

Compression testing, leakdown testing... there are many things a competent shop can do to find out what is going on. If you can't do the work yourself, you're going to at least need to read up and be able to understand what the shop is saying to make sure it makes sense.

Unless the water pump was leaking or losing the bearing, it really would not have needed replaced. The timing chain, maybe, depending on how many miles were on it and the quality of the parts.

What carb was on it, and why did it scare you? The Edelbrock (aka Carter AFB) is a carb that folks either love or hate.

I am just tyring to understand what happened to make it stop running. You did not answer when asked if it overheated.

I don't know of any conventional auto insurance policy that covers mechanical issues...

How do you know it has water in the oil? Did they drain the oil, and there's a lot of water mixed in?

Most any shop has a "sniffer" that they can insert in the radiator filler and sniff for combustion gases in the radiator (indicator of a blown head gasket). There are a number of other ways some water can get into the oil, but the amount of water and other symptoms will point to the probable cause.

Compression testing, leakdown testing... there are many things a competent shop can do to find out what is going on. If you can't do the work yourself, you're going to at least need to read up and be able to understand what the shop is saying to make sure it makes sense.

Unless the water pump was leaking or losing the bearing, it really would not have needed replaced. The timing chain, maybe, depending on how many miles were on it and the quality of the parts.

What carb was on it, and why did it scare you? The Edelbrock (aka Carter AFB) is a carb that folks either love or hate.

I am just tyring to understand what happened to make it stop running. You did not answer when asked if it overheated.
It had never over heated ever. It ran fine till i took it in to the shop for repairs. The only thing is the the carb was not idling at proper idle and i would have to keep restarting the car and at every stop sign it would die. At any cost i have to repair it. At the moment is sits in the shop and they will send of the heads to get fixed or refined as he put it and put them back in. It has a 400 small block and they have replaced all the parts for a 350 which he said they fit fine and should not be a problem. When i picked it up at the shop it did not want to start, he had to give me a jump to start it and he said the battery was fine ? He was not sure why it did not start ? Then i got one block away and noticed the water gauge was getting hot and then it just stopped in the middle of the street. When i got it up and running again after about 30 minutes and made it to the shop the oil dip stick had popped out and water mixed with oil was bursting out of it ?

it's possible that the water got into the oil when they did the timing chain.....if they weren't careful when the had the timing cover off and the water pump off...sometimes if you don't suck the water out of the block or drain the block it will run out of the water pump holes into the open oil pan. without any real evidence of overheating before hand, i'd drain the oil and change it and get it hot to see if it re-occurs. if it's not overheating, i doubt that the head gaskets are bad.

STOP TIME OUT. Do you think they pulled your 400 and replaced it with a damaged 350 just to charge you again, that is if I am reading everything correctly. They may have pulled the heads and replaced them with a cracked set. The guy does not appear to speak with appropriate mechanic terminology either. You would typically rebuild the heads and not refine them but I guess that may just be a choice of words. The 400 is great for RAT motors and I am thinking shady mechanic, but hope not. I would bring your car back home, drain the oil and water, replace with some cheap oil and straight water, make it run for about 30 min, then check all the fluid again before I would go any further. You could probably buy a chevrolet crate motor for the price these guys may charge you and I bet there is someone in the area that would help for a few hundred or maybe free with a 12 pack.

Good Luck,
Do I have any yahs or nahs on this one?

If the car went in running fine something is not sounding right? I would almost want to pay the tow fee to take it to a better shop or get it taken home and find a mechanic to come to your place and help you. Otherwise if you don't know much you are at their mercy. What's next the trans goes out along with the rear? Get it out of there! Guys doesn't $1300 sound high for head work and gaskets?

Last time I ended up with water in the oil it was because the intake manifold leaked water into the #2 cylinder. This might be what happened to your car. It would've been an easy fix except I hydrolocked the engine and bent a rod.

Maybe you could join a local Camaro club in your area of California. Chances are you'll find someone with good mechanical knowledge/ability that can advise you or even help you out without charging you thousands each time you have something repaired.

http://www.americancamaro.org/club.php

http://www.camaroslimited.com/index2.html

Or at least let the board know what California town/city you are in and maybe someone can recommend a known repair shop.

I had a Nova with a built 427 I put in the shop a while back for a rear gear install. I just filled it up with super and it had an absolute full tank when I dropped it off. When it was all done, I picked it up and it had almost a half tank of fuel and missing like crazy. Pulled the valve covers and it had about 4 rocker arms that fell off.......the shop that did the work ran the damn thing into the ground or until it wouldn't run good anymore. Went back to confront them and nobody would confess.

I hope this is not the case. Check for rubber along the inside of the wheel well. I know I had LOTS of it on mine when I picked it up.

Good luck with this man....it's painfull to hear about man.

~Joe

When you don't know much about cars, you are at the mercy of a mechanic...a good or a bad one. I hope you took it to a shop that a friend referred you to. Not just some jerk who khows he can tell you anything and you won't know better. Right now a lot of these bad shops are in financial distress and willtake advantage of people when they can.

You need to mark all your parts in question in an inconspicuous spot so you know what they are replacing and not replacing. There's stamped numbers on the block in front of the passenger side head. You can write those numbers down and keep them for your records. If they pull the heads off the block, the next thing you know, they'll tell you that they need to resurface the block...which means rebuilding the engine. More money in their pocket. It may need to be done, so that's going to be a call they'll make when the heads come off. Get into a car club and have a real car guy inspect the car. If you can help it, don't take your car to a shop that doesn't work on classic hot rods. A shop that replaces Toyota timing belts all day might not be your best bet.

Log your mileage before dropping off your car. There are a lot of shady shops out there that will take your car joyriding and screw it up, as you read Joe's post. During the 8 years I worked at Goodies Speed Shop in San Jose, CA we had about a dozen different customers that came in with broken rocker studs, rockers, and overheated (destroyed) engines because some other shop took the customers car out and beat the $#!+ out of it.

Be careful when installing carburetors. Sometimes there can be debris, loose bolts, nuts, etc that make their way into the carb before it is installed or a simple screw that falls out of the bottom of the carb right into the engine and the next thing you know you start the car or drive it down the street and BLAM! The part goes right into the cylinder and the block is cracked. If you didn't hear any bad noise, that's a good sign.

Educate yourself about cars so you won't be an easy target at a shop. Protect yourself.

Good luck,
Tony Huntimer
Camaro Performers Magazine

I would guess the water got in the oil when they did the timing chain & waterpump replacment. Get it out of there change the oil & see what happens.

I had a Nova with a built 427 I put in the shop a while back for a rear gear install. I just filled it up with super and it had an absolute full tank when I dropped it off. When it was all done, I picked it up and it had almost a half tank of fuel and missing like crazy. Pulled the valve covers and it had about 4 rocker arms that fell off.......the shop that did the work ran the damn thing into the ground or until it wouldn't run good anymore. Went back to confront them and nobody would confess.

I hope this is not the case. Check for rubber along the inside of the wheel well. I know I had LOTS of it on mine when I picked it up.

Good luck with this man....it's painfull to hear about man.

~Joe
I am at their mercy since i am unsure about the car. This is what happens when you buy a used car, i expected problems but it seems to have gone farther then expected. I really hope this is the last time i have to deal with this shop. I really want this camaro running right and well it's almost like i was rebuilding the whole thing. I am crossing my fingers that nothing else goes wrong. What else could possibly happen.

I agree with everyone else who has said to get the car outta there! What history do you know about the car/motor? A 400? Have you had contact with the previous owner? A timing chain in a small block/big block chevy is not done at the same frequency as an import's timing belt. I think the shop is preying on your lack of knowledge, and it's very easy for him to determine your level of knowledge with 2-3 basic questions, or to see if you question any statements he might make.
Depending on what motor you have in the car, someone might have determined the casting numbers to be valuable in something else, and after a couple of visits, they might come out with "the bad news is, we need to replace your engine"....or something like that.

Theres no way that blown headgaskets would put enough water into the block to push out the dipstick and be blowing water/oil out of the dipstick tube in a blocks worth of driving. Doubt even a cracked block would do that. Only possibility of getting that much water in the block is from an intake gasket leak and it would almost have to not have a gasket in it to leak that bad.

What kind of heads and intake are on the car? If it has vortec heads (2 center bolts instead of 4 bolts around the perimirer) you have to have a vortec intake manifold otherwise there is a huge port mismatch. Also if the heads were milled, then the intake has to be milled as well or you get leaks as well.

Yup just as some people said on here, they are now saying 3 of my pistons are broke and i will need a whole new engine. I am so sad. This is going to cost mega dollars and all the new parts i purchased will have to be replaced to the new engine. I am at their mercy, i can't even see the car because i work 12 hour days, i leave before the shop opens and come home after it's closed. I hope that after i pay for this new or used rebuilt engine that i get to keep the old one. It's now a even sadder day. I saw my engine drown in water, my poor camaro.

Yup just as some people said on here, they are now saying 3 of my pistons are broke and i will need a whole new engine. I am so sad. This is going to cost mega dollars and all the new parts i purchased will have to be replaced to the new engine. I am at their mercy, i can't even see the car because i work 12 hour days, i leave before the shop opens and come home after it's closed. I hope that after i pay for this new or used rebuilt engine that i get to keep the old one. It's now a even sadder day. I saw my engine drown in water, my poor camaro.

All is not lost and your 401k will not be drained...

1st off ask any of your friends if they know a reputable mechanic, etc... and have your car taken to this other place. A 2nd opinion is due in this situation because I like the others dunno about this shop your using now. Hell your in Cali, just say where and I am sure someone from the board can give you shops name/number that is reputable.

Ok lets say the 2nd shop comes back and says yup your engine is pooched, you got 2 choices...

1. If you want to keep that eninge becuase its numbers matching, etc... then rebuild it. Rebuilding the engine should run from 1-2k depending on parts needed (unless you need heads also then it will cost more perhaps).

2. Buy another engine and bolt on your parts you just bought. New engines run from 1.5k up, and have warrenty, etc....

http://www.jegs.com/c/Engines-Components_Engine-Assembled-Ready-to-Run/10763/10002/-1

You can go from mild to wild, what ever you want to spend there is an engine waiting for you! These days unless your want to keep the engine for numbers matching collector reasons, etc... and you dunno how to rebuild the engine yourself then buy a crate engine.

When I started reading about the water and oil pumping out of the dipstick tube I figured a broken piston or a major score in a cyl wall would put that kind of pressure in the pan. Dude where do you live? There are many of us here in California that would be willing to help out. At least get you going in the right direction if not some actual physical wrenching on your car, and to make sure that shop is not ripping you off. :)

Bill

When I started reading about the water and oil pumping out of the dipstick tube I figured a broken piston or a major score in a cyl wall would put that kind of pressure in the pan. Dude where do you live? There are many of us here in California that would be willing to help out. At least get you going in the right direction if not some actual physical wrenching on your car, and to make sure that shop is not ripping you off. :)

Bill I live in Pittsburg California. I am getting my car fixed in Antioch California just 10 minutes aways. I am waiting to hear back from them on pricing. I called a local shop by myself and they said 2K for a 400 small block chevy with 2 years warranty. These guys are going to try to score my a used one for less. We'll see. Thanks for the advise from everyone, greatly appreciated. I also contacted small claims court because well i'm gonna see if i have a case. If this is something they did well i gotta take them to court. But we'll see, i'm not one to take time of work to handle court stuff, i'd rather pay my way out and get my car back on the road asap.

A '68 Camaro didn't have a "400" cu inch engine, so if they're pricing one, it might cost more than a 350 crate motor would.

Not to be harsh, cause I know how it feels to be in your place- but if it were me, I would be taking some time off from work to go check it out. It would take quite a few hours at work to pay the shop to fix my car, at my hourly pay rate, at the very least I might feel more secure in the end, having investigated their findings.

I would want to see the three pistons, and I would not tell them I was coming. If possible, I would take a friend along. Ask questions, ask to see the oil from the car for debris and fragments in the bottom of the oil pan.

Perhaps it's too late for that, but in any case, best of luck to you.

Get your car out of there. It smells like a similar experience I had years ago:

My 69 Z28 was in paint jail for several months and started to run rough. There was a mechanic a couple of units down and he looked at the car and rebuilt the carb. Once he was done it was smoking bad and he told me the engine needed to be rebuilt but I said no so he offered up that it was likely the valve seals and he offered to change them. I agreed and he did the work. Next day when I went by the car was out of gas. Big surprise, he had put oil in the gas to make it smoke and then he ran it out of gas. Sure enough, fresh gas and no smoke. He only took me for a few hundred but could have gotten a lot more if had agreed to a rebuild. While I was there waiting for the car to get gased up I watched him pull an alternator out a Jaguar, clean it, paint it with casting paint, apply a "rebuilt" sticker to it and install it back in the car. He didn't realize I was watching what I was doing. He had a whole roll of those stickers in his cabinet...

There are crooks out there, if something doesn't look right, pull the car and look for someone you can trust.

Don

Lex... this is the time to man~up. Roll up your sleeves,get dirty,and spend some quality time with your pride and joy.
I understand the 12 Hr.days (did it for 8 or 9 years). Find someone who know their stuff and see if they'll help you for a few dollars and teach you the basics.
I learned the hard way also (like a lot of us here). I kept paying and paying for shoddy work and $1400 for a tranny with install was the straw that broke my back (3 weeks and blew). I had to learn from trial and error along with help from buddies... but even with doing it 2 or more times to get right it was cheaper than paying for $hi##y work over and over :yes:

Another word from the wise.....unless you are dealing with someone like Chip Foose, you will not have the heart and soul put into your car like you would personally do it. Perfection can only come by one person and that is yourself.

Go to harbor freight, grab some tools, grab your camera, start pulling things apart, and when you have a question, ask away here on Team Camaro. I would be willing to bet that about 98% of every question that could be asked about 1st gem Camaro's has already been asked.....thats why the search is one of my most prized tools in my toolbox.

~Joe

If you have another car, and this car is just a toy, my advice would be to get it brought home and park it. Then start reading all you can, and try to become at least a knowledgeable "consumer gearhead".

Yes it is awful that you've spent a bunch of money recently, and you're left with a car that won't run. Maybe you have some recourse against the shop if the car was abused or if shoddy/shady work was performed, maybe you don't.

Maybe you got incredibly unlucky. The initial issue with the idle sounds like it may have been fixed with a few turns of idle speed and/or mixture screws, and maybe some more in depth learning on your part could have given you the knowledge to perform the adjustments yourself.

As it is, you had a shop perform a bunch of work that probably was not necessary, and may have led to where you are now.

Before you continue to throw money at the car (unless you have really deep pockets, and don’t mind being very, very upside-down in the project), bring it home and park it, and sit and plan out what you want to do, and try to learn enough that you can at least guide whomever you select to perform the work and know that you’re not being completely taken for a ride.

The way things are going, and at your current level of knowledge about these cars, I am afraid that the shop will either throw together a bunch of junk parts and charge more than they should for a junkyard engine, or you’ll spend a pile of cash for an okay rebuilt engine when you could have had a “crate” engine with better specs and a warranty for the same money or less.

Even something like the “Goodwrench” 350 might be a better choice than spending a ton of cash rebuilding a junkyard engine.


http://paceperformance.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=224002

GM PART # 10067353
CATEGORY: Eng Asm (shipped only to local fedex hub 4 pickup)
PACK QTY: 1
CORE CHARGE: $0.00
GM LIST: $1,887.78
OUR PRICE: $1,766.96

When you can’t do the work yourself, the way you need to approach this type of project is very different than someone who can do most of the work themselves. You are well on the road to having $20K to $30K “invested” in a $10K to $15K car, and my advice is to bring it home and really think and learn about what you want to do with the car.

If you have another car, and this car is just a toy, my advice would be to get it brought home and park it. Then start reading all you can, and try to become at least a knowledgeable "consumer gearhead".

Yes it is awful that you've spent a bunch of money recently, and you're left with a car that won't run. Maybe you have some recourse against the shop if the car was abused or if shoddy/shady work was performed, maybe you don't.

Maybe you got incredibly unlucky. The initial issue with the idle sounds like it may have been fixed with a few turns of idle speed and/or mixture screws, and maybe some more in depth learning on your part could have given you the knowledge to perform the adjustments yourself.

As it is, you had a shop perform a bunch of work that probably was not necessary, and may have led to where you are now.

Before you continue to throw money at the car (unless you have really deep pockets, and don’t mind being very, very upside-down in the project), bring it home and park it, and sit and plan out what you want to do, and try to learn enough that you can at least guide whomever you select to perform the work and know that you’re not being completely taken for a ride.

The way things are going, and at your current level of knowledge about these cars, I am afraid that the shop will either throw together a bunch of junk parts and charge more than they should for a junkyard engine, or you’ll spend a pile of cash for an okay rebuilt engine when you could have had a “crate” engine with better specs and a warranty for the same money or less.

Even something like the “Goodwrench” 350 might be a better choice than spending a ton of cash rebuilding a junkyard engine.


http://paceperformance.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=224002

GM PART # 10067353
CATEGORY: Eng Asm (shipped only to local fedex hub 4 pickup)
PACK QTY: 1
CORE CHARGE: $0.00
GM LIST: $1,887.78
OUR PRICE: $1,766.96

When you can’t do the work yourself, the way you need to approach this type of project is very different than someone who can do most of the work themselves. You are well on the road to having $20K to $30K “invested” in a $10K to $15K car, and my advice is to bring it home and really think and learn about what you want to do with the car.
Well their total is $3500.00 with a 3 year warranty, it will be shipped and i wont' see it till the 13th of next month. This will be with all the parts transfered from my block over to this block and labor included. what do you guys think ?

Well their total is $3100.00 with a 3 year warranty, it will be shipped and i wont' see it till the 13th of next month. This will be with all the parts transfered from my block over to this block and labor included. what do you guys think ? I could be i l blew it out running it at 120 mph. I have a thread before this one that was stating why my engine started to leak fluids after i ran it at 120 mph. Maybe i just screwed it up myself ? The only thing i do know is that it did not have water in the engine, it was idling incorrectly and this is why i took it to the shop. I had gotten the carb adjusted and it was running fine, the fluids had also stopped leaking with all new gaskets all around, except for one. I have a thread here posted and a pix of that one leak i had also. I think i might go for it.

Have you gotten a written estimate detailing exactly what you're getting, what's new or rebuilt and what's being swapped from your old engine? If so, post it up and let us take a look at it. If not, you're likely in deep doodoo. What are the terms of the warranty and where do you have to take the car to get warranty service?

I've got to say, a person without any mechanical knowledge owning a 40 year old car is not going to be happy unless you have very deep pockets, a very trustworthy mechanic or learn about your car pretty quickly.

You've got some pretty good advice here, but you don't seem to be listening. Continuing to throw money at the car is a losing proposition. They (and it doesn't matter where you take it) will keep finding things wrong and you will keep paying and you will never learn anything. Even when it's fixed right, things will still be breaking, wearing out, or getting out of adjustment. These cars aren't for everybody, you have to willing to get your hands dirty and make some mistakes.

Just my 2¢

Do you know the size of the engine they are getting you...350" or 400". Short block?
If it's a short block you may want to consider inspecting the heads. Get the information on what they are getting for you, so you can take it home and study what you're buying. So I guess $3,100 dollars sounds like a good deal to you? Thats ALL in parts and labor? Are they taking you're old engine for core? Sorry for all the questions, but this thread makes me cringe. Many of us here do not like to see others taken for a not so pleasant ride.

Do you know the size of the engine they are getting you...350" or 400". Short block?
If it's a short block you may want to consider inspecting the heads. Get the information on what they are getting for you, so you can take it home and study what you're buying. So I guess $3,100 dollars sounds like a good deal to you? Thats ALL in parts and labor? Are they taking you're old engine for core? Sorry for all the questions, but this thread makes me cringe. Many of us here do not like to see others taken for a not so pleasant ride.
It will be a 400 Small Block and it will be more like $3500.00 because the mechanic says the intake is rusty and full of gunk that did not come off when they sand blasted it and it's best to get a new one. I can keep the old one and as far as the old block he said because when the oil and water mixed and it's all full of gunk too. He also said i can take it home too. I hope to get it all done by the middle of next month and will keep pix up asap. thanks

Why did they sand blast the intake????
I don't get it....did you ok them to take it off? What was the reason they said they needed to take it off and sandblast?
Too wierd.
I'm not diggin' this shop.
Get that car outa there, tow it home if you need to. You're being taken for a ride, and this'll bum you out on classic cars real quick.
Get it home, grab some tools and a good digital camera. We'll slowly e-fix this by walking you through it. These old cars are easy to work on.

the mechanic says the intake is rusty and full of gunk that did not come off when they sand blasted it and it's best to get a new one. I can keep the old one and as far as the old block he said because when the oil and water mixed and it's all full of gunk too. He also said i can take it home too.

Wow....right there is a perfectly clear sign that they are grabbing at "wrong" things and taking advantage of you. 90% of the members of this site know that anything aside from a hot fire on an aluminum (or cast iron) intake can be cleaned and re-used. Same thing goes for the block. I've seen LOTS of water/oil mixed nightmares and unless a connecting rod came loose, the block was re-used. It just needs some cleaning.

My advise is to listen to all of the advice here on this thread.

~Joe

Anyone who owns a classic car of any caliber, had better have a basic understanding, a will to learn more, and be involved in this forum. I think Eric's plan makes the most sense. You'll learn a lot with the hood open, and your hands in it. And you're not under any pressure to make a decision- in a hurry- and can weigh all your options, after getting suggestions and maybe some hands on help. Maybe even friends!
Lex, wouldn't you prefer to have less stress and more options, without feeling like you're being taken?

Have they removed the motor from the car?

Get someone knowledgeable, rondevous with someone from this site even!

Take a half a day from work- call in SICK!!!!

Go to the shop with this other person, and review this from start to stop.

Dare I say, do you know the laws in your state? A lawyer could quote them for you.

(Boy- that was tough- recommend a "lawyer!" ??)

Guys , this whole ordeal seems kind of weird to me (as in the chasing of wild geese):D This entire thread has been about trying to help a clueless member not get screwed by a no good shop . The original poster , Lexlas , keeps coming back with all the textbook wrong , getting taken answers , and falling for them , while the good guys here keep screaming "NO, NO , GET YOUR CAR OUT , WE'LL HELP ! DON'T FALL FOR THAT !" But he keeps getting sucked in ! ................Sorry guys , I gotta call BS on this one , either the whole story isn't being told or this is all a fabrucation , or the OP is incredibly naive . ...........I may be wrong , and if I am I will appoligize , but I don't think so .:D

X2 on what Vetteman 72 said you cant have 68 Camaro with out getting your hands dirty on less you wonna drain the bank.

X2 on what Vetteman 72 said you cant have 68 Camaro with out getting your hands dirty on less you wonna drain the bank.


X3.

These cars are not terribly complicated to work on especially with the internet at our disposal. Besides it's easy enough to drain the bank with one WITHOUT paying someone else for labor.


unless you're pdq67

Guys , this whole ordeal seems kind of weird to me (as in the chasing of wild geese):D This entire thread has been about trying to help a clueless member not get screwed by a no good shop . The original poster , Lexlas , keeps coming back with all the textbook wrong , getting taken answers , and falling for them , while the good guys here keep screaming "NO, NO , GET YOUR CAR OUT , WE'LL HELP ! DON'T FALL FOR THAT !" But he keeps getting sucked in ! ................Sorry guys , I gotta call BS on this one , either the whole story isn't being told or this is all a fabrucation , or the OP is incredibly naive . ...........I may be wrong , and if I am I will appoligize , but I don't think so .:D

I was thinking the same thing.

Don

I was thinking the same thing.

Don I am not lying about a single thing from the beginning of this thread. I am calling them in an hour after they open and will ask them to put back the block together and i will be towing it back to my house Saturday morning. I will be taking them to small claims for flooding my engine or whatever they did to it. I don't know how i brought it in for a new carberator and new valve cover gaskets and the engine ended up paying the price and got water mixed with oil and 3 blown pistons ? I will take pix and keep you all posted and take a pix of the receipts for all the work i had done by this shop. I am very greateful for all the advise you guys have given me. I just really wanted this camaro drivable and was willing to pay the price of $3500.00 to get it back on the road, this is how much i luv driving that car. Now i have to suck it up and wait who knows how long ? Court and filing fees and all will take forever. Like i said at the beginning of this thread i am heartbroken. Money in the bank does not bring me happiness, driving this car brings me happiness, but i have to not let them take advantage of me, this is the advise i will take from all the members here. I wonder how many others here at this site are like me, where the camaro luv comes first before cash ? The purr and the smell of that car, the attention and the speed are what i luv most. I think some of you guys like cheby2 don't know what it's like to be me. I'm gone 12 - 13 hours a day to work and when i come home i am incomplete without my camaro, it's the only thing i look forward to. I have a family and kids and everyone is happy. As for me this is my first camaro that i've been dreaming of for about 19 years and it's finally here and now it's dead. I thought i had found happiness, but now it's troubles. This is why i was willing to pay the $3500.00 just to get back to square one. The reason i am pulling it out of the shop is not only that i took your guys advise but the fact is i might pay this $3500. and they might come up with something else. So i am not going down that road. I will just deal with it till i get them in court. Thanks again guys.

I'm just not sure what to make of this thread and the OP's last response. If the goal is to be able to drive the Camaro, there are many options that would cost much less than $3,500 for getting it on the road. There is also a pretty large Camaros.net presence in the Bay area, and I'm guessing some folks here might be willing to assist in an engine/short block swap, if nothing else than by providing guidance while you do the work.

You've created a "box" that says you're incapable of working on your car yourself. Doing an engine/short block swap is 80% sweat and 20% knowledge for which you need - at a minimum - basic mechanics tools, jackstands and a cherry picker. I've removed and replaced the engine in my '68 Camaro 5 or more times by myself in the 7 years I've owned it.

The advice that comes through most strongly in this thread is that if you can't at least diagnose what's wrong with your car, you're not going to be happy owning a 40 year old Camaro.

I'd urge you to reach out, ask for some local help and see what develops. You might just make some new friends, save some money and have a driveable car. The worst that could happen is you'll be exactly where you are today.

I've been watching this thread and shaking my head for DAYS now. Dude you are getting SCREWED, BIG. You are either a 17 year old kid that knows NOTHING. And not just about cars, or you've got way more $ than brains. Yes, I'm pulling the trigger on both barrels.
You say doing 120 MPH like it's nothing.....
You say your going to spend your money like it's water.
You keep going back to the shop like they are your best friends.
Dude wake the f**k up !!
And, It's ONLY a CAR. (yes it's a Camaro), but it's still only a CAR.
Do you go home crying to your wife and kids, "Oh my car it's broken" waa waa...........
WOW.
(and I don't know if I want to "know what it's like to be" you)...........
OK now that I've insulted you............
Ship the car to me. I'll build you a 383 SBC install it and gar-un-tee it will run.
And do it for the $3500.00 that rip-off shop was going to charge.

OK, I've calmed down, a little. But I gotta say this:
I'm getting REAL tired of these people that buy a car, any car, not just a Camaro, and have NO clue about how to even change the oil. But they have a Camaro so they are, "car guys". Um, no. It takes more than just owning one. It's like the biker "T" shirt:
"It takes more than $25,000.00 and 25 miles to be a biker".

I'm gonna catch some crap for what I just said, but....................
I'm kinda used to THAT, ain't I..............LOL......

It had never over heated ever. It ran fine till i took it in to the shop for repairs. The only thing is the the carb was not idling at proper idle and i would have to keep restarting the car and at every stop sign it would die. At any cost i have to repair it. At the moment is sits in the shop and they will send of the heads to get fixed or refined as he put it and put them back in. It has a 400 small block and they have replaced all the parts for a 350 which he said they fit fine and should not be a problem. When i picked it up at the shop it did not want to start, he had to give me a jump to start it and he said the battery was fine ? He was not sure why it did not start ? Then i got one block away and noticed the water gauge was getting hot and then it just stopped in the middle of the street. When i got it up and running again after about 30 minutes and made it to the shop the oil dip stick had popped out and water mixed with oil was bursting out of it ?



So your mechanic put 350 heads on your 400 block and then all this happened?
Do you think he was competent enough to modify the 350 heads for use with a Siamese bore 400? They can overheat if not done properly, and that can cause the head gasket to blow and get the water in the oil. Get all your original parts and let another mechanic determine the cause of failure if you are thinking of going to small claims court. And have him put it in writing.

When you replace that engine, get a crate 350 or 383 with warranty.
It's probably best to stay away from the small block 400, if you can even find a crate 400.

OK, I've calmed down, a little. But I gotta say this:
I'm getting REAL tired of these people that buy a car, any car, not just a Camaro, and have NO clue about how to even change the oil. But they have a Camaro so they are, "car guys". Um, no. It takes more than just owning one. It's like the biker "T" shirt:
"It takes more than $25,000.00 and 25 miles to be a biker".

I'm gonna catch some crap for what I just said, but....................
Well thanks for the insults Gary dude. I hear you and understand you and don't believe i have to explain it to you, but since your imature that way i must say it. I grew up working on cars as a kid from age 14 to about 20 or so. Oil changes, new valve covers, tune ups, upoulstry, rebuilding carbs and so forth, my dream was to work on cars but i got my girl pregnant and had to give up that and do office work. I've done office work since and have moved up the ladder many times. Last year i had a fall out and well i lost half my nerve system on my right side, yes this means i will do paper work for the rest of my life or technical support like i do now. I was hanging on my life by a thread last November and well by some miracle i made it through. Now i am living a different life and well i thought i'd do something i'd desired since i was a kid and since i almost lost my life i'd figured better now then never, i went ahead and bought the car of my dreams a 1968 camaro. I can't work on it but i enjoy driving it. I might not be able to lift heavy objects or get my hands extrelely dirty but i can fix little things or do some electrical. If i ever get my nerves back in order i'll be sure to run you over ! Lol .. Just kidding. It's cool dog i totally get it from your poing of view but you should not be so quick to judge others. Just like every other site it's got its ups and downs but maybe i'm in the wrong place. Maybe there is not place for a person like me who is ****ed up due to surgeries, who used to be a grease monkey but now i can't retire happily because people like you will insult me for luving a car that i can't work on. I guess you could say i could have purchased a minivan or SUV, but see i all ready have 2 a black SUV and a while SUV, also a import tuner, but here i was thinking i could be happy with a muscle car and happy to talk to others who share luv in interest for these cars, but maybe i was wrong.

So your mechanic put 350 heads on your 400 block and then all this happened?
Do you think he was competent enough to modify the 350 heads for use with a Siamese bore 400? They can overheat if not done properly, and that can cause the head gasket to blow and get the water in the oil. Get all your original parts and let another mechanic determine the cause of failure


Finally somebody mentions the 350 heads on the 400 block.

I have followed this thread but cannot but wonder if the damage was done here:

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?p=1250116#post1250116

although the shop in question should have raised the red flag if the engine did not seem right.

Good Luck with whatever direction You take Lex.

Lex - Modesto isn't too far from Pittsburg. What is your work schedule? Do you have weekends off or days off during the week? Do you have a spot where you can work on the car? Do you have a truck to haul parts if needed?

I've got a bunch of vacation time and wouldn't mind helping out. Depending on the extent of the damage I should be able to fix it in a few trips to Pittsburg. It will be much cheaper and I'll show you how to fix it yourself along the way. Only compensation I will accept is a beer or two. :beers:

Let me know.

Lex - Modesto isn't too far from Pittsburg. What is your work schedule? Do you have weekends off or days off during the week? Do you have a spot where you can work on the car? Do you have a truck to haul parts if needed?

I've got a bunch of vacation time and wouldn't mind helping out. Depending on the extent of the damage I should be able to fix it in a few trips to Pittsburg. It will be much cheaper and I'll show you how to fix it yourself along the way. Only compensation I will accept is a beer or two. :beers:

Let me know.
That sounds great, i would luv a friend who could guide me. I do have weekends off. I just got off the phone with the mechanic and they told me now that they rechecked it that the block is cracked and some other stuff, but that lead to the water in the engine according to them. I will tow it back to my home Saturday but either way according to them i will need a new engine. The lowest offer i just got from them to do everything is $3100 with all new intake and heads and pistons and a 400 small block, includes labor and taxes and all. Dude i like beer too, i was thinking of putting a real bar in my home with mirrors and all, lol ..

Finally somebody mentions the 350 heads on the 400 block.

I have followed this thread but cannot but wonder if the damage was done here:

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?p=1250116#post1250116

although the shop in question should have raised the red flag if the engine did not seem right.

Good Luck with whatever direction You take Lex.
He never changed the heads on my block. The only parts they put that were parts for a 350 and he said fit fine were, timing chain, timing chain cover, pulleys and water pump. He said they fit fine.

That sounds great, i would luv a friend who could guide me. I do have weekends off. I just got off the phone with the mechanic and they told me now that they rechecked it that the block is cracked and some other stuff, but that lead to the water in the engine according to them. I will tow it back to my home Saturday but either way according to them i will need a new engine. The lowest offer i just got from them to do everything is $3100 with all new intake and heads and pistons and a 400 small block, includes labor and taxes and all. Dude i like beer too, i was thinking of putting a real bar in my home with mirrors and all, lol ..

Let me know when you have it home and we can schedule something. First trip will be to determine what is broken and discuss your options.

Steve :beers:

Lex,
If I were you I'd take Steve up on his generous offer. It sounds like you need someone with some experience to help guide you through the repair process so you don't end up getting screwed out of your hard earned money. If the block is indeed cracked, you are most likely better off going with a new long block and using what you can off of your existing engine. A 350/383 will most likely be cheaper than going the 400 route.

Lex,
If I were you I'd take Steve up on his generous offer. It sounds like you need someone with some experience to help guide you through the repair process so you don't end up getting screwed out of your hard earned money. If the block is indeed cracked, you are most likely better off going with a new long block and using what you can off of your existing engine. A 350/383 will most likely be cheaper than going the 400 route.
I sure will keep Steve in mind on this. This was the final bill and last resort. A copy of the bill and the link below to the bill for better viewing.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3280/3769893102_a80d103eda.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3280/3769893102_a80d103eda.jpg

If i ever get my nerves back in order i'll be sure to run you over ! Lol .. Just kidding. Maybe there is not place for a person like me who is ****ed up due to surgeries, who used to be a grease monkey but now i can't retire happily because people like you will insult me for luving a car that i can't work on.

OK, I'll eat a little crow. If you get the Camaro running and you get your nerves "back in order", I'll meet you somewhere.
And as far as this web site goes, don't judge all by what I say, I can be and am, a bit of an a---ole sometimes. How's about a :beers: ?

OK, I'll eat a little crow. If you get the Camaro running and you get your nerves "back in order", I'll meet you somewhere.
And as far as this web site goes, don't judge all by what I say, I can be and am, a bit of an a---ole sometimes. How's about a :beers: ?
Beer ! Yes ! Cheers mate ! My nerves accoring to my Doc, she's cute by the way, might never heal. Not much to complain about since i'm breathing and driving.
:beers: :thumbsup:

isn't the water jackets on a 400 different than those of a 350, and a 400 requires a different intake gasket than a 350? wonder if that had anything to do with the water/oil mix.

Beer ! Yes ! Cheers mate ! My nerves accoring to my Doc, she's cute by the way, might never heal. Not much to complain about since i'm breathing and driving.
:beers: :thumbsup:

Hang in there, it's been my experience nerves DO heal.

isn't the water jackets on a 400 different than those of a 350, and a 400 requires a different intake gasket than a 350? wonder if that had anything to do with the water/oil mix.

Same intake gasket. You're thinking of the steam holes in the block and heads of a 400, 350's do not have them.

I can be and am, a bit of an a---ole sometimes.
x2

Let me know when you have it home and we can schedule something. First trip will be to determine what is broken and discuss your options.

Steve :beers:

That sounds great, i would luv a friend who could guide me. I do have weekends off. I just got off the phone with the mechanic and they told me now that they rechecked it that the block is cracked and some other stuff, but that lead to the water in the engine according to them. I will tow it back to my home Saturday but either way according to them i will need a new engine. The lowest offer i just got from them to do everything is $3100 with all new intake and heads and pistons and a 400 small block, includes labor and taxes and all. Dude i like beer too, i was thinking of putting a real bar in my home with mirrors and all, lol ..

I think we are witnessing the beginning of another wonderful Camaro based friendship here folks.. Yay!
:)

to bad you arent closer to illinois i would help ya toss a new sb in that thing and charge you burgers and beer!!! good luck with your 68 and keep your dream alive!!!

I think we are witnessing the beginning of another wonderful Camaro based friendship here folks.. Yay!
:)


And it only took 61 responses! :hurray:

Let's keep the thread alive with pics and updates on the problem, Lex. I'll wager there are several guys who are curious as to what happened to your motor. Good luck!:beers:

And it only took 61 responses! :hurray:

Let's keep the thread alive with pics and updates on the problem, Lex. I'll wager there are several guys who are curious as to what happened to your motor. Good luck!:beers:

Like me:yes:!!!!! Best of luck to 'ya Lex :hurray::beers:.

David F.

We have a camaro club here in Houston and when a member has some problems, the club gets together and tackles the project on the car. You might look into joining a local club and meet some members and get direction from them.

Good Luck, to bad you dont live in Houston.

Get a room.

He never changed the heads on my block. The only parts they put that were parts for a 350 and he said fit fine were, timing chain, timing chain cover, pulleys and water pump. He said they fit fine.
Sorry, I misunderstood your post, it sounded like he removed and replaced the heads. Even if the same heads where reinstalled, the wrong gasket could cause the overheating

My advice of having a qualified mechanic check your damaged engine for poor workmanship is vital if you are going to small claims court.

Why do you seem to want to stick with the 400CI small block?
There is a reason the 350 and 383 are way more popular.

Any updates to this?

Any updates to this?
Yes update: As i went to get my car and let them know i was not taking the deal and will most likely take them to court, i got a call from the owner and they gave me the deal i could not resist. I paid for the new engine and parts and they will do all the labor for free. They called yesterday and they installed it all completely and will test drive it today on a run and i await for all to be ok before i take the car home with a new engine ! :hurray: I will take pix of the new engine and all chrome when i get it. I got questions regarding a new engine, so i guess i will post a new thread at some point. From what they tell me i have to not run it hard the first 500 miles till the next oil change.

Good news, make sure you break that thing in right. When they say new is it from GM, built by someone else or did they rebuild it. You want to have this info, you really want to make sure it has a warranty too :)

Good news, make sure you break that thing in right. When they say new is it from GM, built by someone else or did they rebuild it. You want to have this info, you really want to make sure it has a warranty too :) Not sure where it's from but it comes with a 3 year and 36,000 mile warranty. So do you know how to break it in ? My guess is drive under 65 mph for 500 miles or till next oil change ?

It should come with break in instructions from the builder, everyone is different but mainly take it easy first few miles and change the oil at 500 miles.

Still would have been interesting to see the old block and verify if it was indeed cracked.

alan

Still would have been interesting to see the old block and verify if it was indeed cracked.

alan
I actually did see the old block and felt the cracks inside where the pistons go. It must have been when i did that 120 mph, thats when the car started burping and i thought the carb had gave out. I run my Mazda MX-6 LS at that speed all the tiime and it has never had problems. I will not run this camaro like that till i know it can handle it. I will put up pix of the new engine soon. I'm picking it up tonight. :hurray:

Wow... Sounds like a good resolution. Happy to hear that you were able to work it out and will have the Camaro to drive. Some video of the engine running would be nice!!!

Wow... Sounds like a good resolution. Happy to hear that you were able to work it out and will have the Camaro to drive. Some video of the engine running would be nice!!! Here's the video. Lets end this thread the right way, with a happy ending ! :hurray:

Alright guys , I said in my post , and I am a man of my word , that if I was wrong about Lexlas I would apologize , and I will .

Lexlas , I was wrong about this deal and you , please accept my apologies . Although I would have handled your whole situation differently and do think that you were taken advantage of to some degree , that is not mine to question . If you are happy with the outcome , that's great !

Now this thread can have a happy ending :D

Lex - Glad to hear you got the car fixed! :beers:

You put a new timing chain and cover? You will get water in the pan when taking apart the front of the motor.

You put a new timing chain and cover? You will get water in the pan when taking apart the front of the motor.

You can't take the timing cover off unless the water pump is off. Unless the motor was lifted (highly doubtful) in the back AFTER the timing cover was off. Water should not get into the oil pan since the water had drained out prior to taking the water pump off the front of the motor.

~Joe

WOW!! Just read the whole thread. Interesting.
Glad you got your problems resolved.:beers:

Congrats on getting it taken care of.... now take care of it,get some books and read up on everything engine related and take on some small stuff first before moving up....and hopefully it will be a long time before you need this knowledge :yes:

Hmm, 120 MPH in a 40 year old car. I will guess the fuel pump didn't keep up with the demands of the engine. Leaned out the carb and boom, pop, rattle, the thin cylinder walls of the over bored block cracked. Fuel starvation has killed more than one Camaro.

Good call Gary... :)