I need some feedback from some folks that have been-there-done-that in regards to restoration. Some years ago I bought a 69' Convertible. I drove it for a couple of years and then decided to do a "Frame Off" restoration. I have had a terrible experience. I'm with my third restoration shop. The other two went out of business and the owners ripped me off in parts and pre-paid labor. The shop I'm with now has had my car for 3 years and I pre-paid $11,000 to finish the restoration (on a time available agreement). I know this guy and he does good work and I'm applying the pressure to finsh it up this summer.

My first Camaro was a 69' Convertible Pace Car. I sold it when I went to college (big dummy) and I have tried to find another one with no luck. So I decided to purchase the 69 convertible and make it a 69' Pace Car "Clone". I have already purchased the conversion parts to make the car an SS along with the deluxe interior package for the Pace Car. My original Pace car had a 350 with Hurst shifter & positive traction rearend. My current car has a 327 (which I had bored out and rebuilt for the unleaded gas), powerglide auto trans and standard rearend. I have purchased a 400 turbo transmission which I am told will fit without any trouble and i have kept the rearend. Do I need to do anything about the rearend?

I've had some second thoughts on the conversion and the body parts are ready for the body shop. The origanal factory color was Rally Green Metalic with black standard interior.

I have already invested $21,000 in the restoration and I don't want to look back a regret my decision.

Will I hurt my resale value if I continue to convert the car to the SS Pace Car and make all these changes or should I keep it as the simple factory original.

I intend to keep the car for quite a while but it is an investment and I want to get my money out it if and when I sell it. Thanks for any advice!!!

Hi Greg, from what I read, sounds like you want a Pace Car clone so go for it.... and resale value will be the same assuming the car is done nice.

About the transmission, the turbo 400 will need a new crossmember, yoke and driveshaft...

You can leave the rear end alone if desired or upgrade to multi-leaf posi setup.

Jeff G
68 4-speed Vert
69 RS/SS 396 Vert

The fact that it is a clone will not add value. From an investment standpoint, you will spend more cash to clone it in to a pace car but will not see a return on that money. It is simple really, the profit margin would be higher keeping it original, less money invested.
JMHO

Welcome to the site Greg.

Looks like you started out with good intentions... and a couple of guys along the way lead you astray...twice burned, eh? But, I see now where you have had your car on a time, pay as the work is being done, right?...and for a $11k... most of it should have been done by now. Three years is also a long time for a shop to be going at it...I can see your need to pressure him, even if you know him.

As per the restore...can you afford to not complete this ground up? You're into it for a fair bit, and need to realize something that you can point at in the garage with pride. You've stayed with the project this far... just get a definite closure on the finish date.

capt

I vote on a good restoration minus the Pace car cloning. Personally, I think a "clone" may take away from the value. Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather have the same quality work, paint, parts, etc. and not have to explain that it's not really a Pace Car.

Tough spot to be in. I won't comment much on values and investment as I'm not an expert, but I will say that it sounds like you're REALLY missing your old Pace Car and that's what you're ultimately wanting - so I'd think that anything other than having that (i.e. keeping it original green/black interior) will be a letdown and you'd probably sell the car down the road because of it.

That said, I'd personally restore it to what it was originally, but that's just my preference. I think the right answer for you may be to go on with the clone project and enjoy it. If it's a good quality restoration, it should maintain some value over the long run. But I doubt that you'd get back your invested $ for many, many years - if ever. It just seems to be the nature of the game for people that have shops doing the work because these projects are extremely labor-intensive as you know and add up quickly as far as the costs. How many times have we heard about how many thousands are invested into a restoration, and yet the cars when sold, are done so for a fraction of that? I even see these types of things at the big auctions as well. Examples all the time at Barrett-Jackson as well where people will put nearly 6-figures into their Camaro restoration, and the cars sell for 1/3 of that at the end. One person I know spent 100K building a Yenko clone, and in the end, it was worth about $35K.

I guess my suggestion for your particular car is for you to think less of it as an investment at this stage, and instead just enjoy/build the car for how YOU want, which should be most important. And hopefully that means you keep it too. Good luck to you either way!

David

I am in a similar delima, but hey if you plan on keeping for many years then build your clone, however, it will be a clone and now days thats the first thing someone asks you, " is it a clone". If you are unsure how long you'll keep it, build it original quality, drive it for a year or so, sell it, and then go buy you a 69 IPC driver to restore.

It's your's to do with as you please, that said IMO you could be opening a can of worms if you really try to clone the pace car replica. Will you want it to be an exact clone down to the trim tag and other small details? Would painting it white with a white top on it and the orange interior satisify your needs? Do that and build the drivetrain any way you want, same with wheels and tires.

I really wanted a pace car, take a look in my signature. I drive it all the time, it has all the same options, just not the same color or stripes... I'm totally happy and don't have to put up with friends goofing on me about their eyes after looking at the interior...

It's your's to do with as you please, that said IMO you could be opening a can of worms if you really try to clone the pace car replica. Will you want it to be an exact clone down to the trim tag and other small details? Would painting it white with a white top on it and the orange interior satisify your needs? Do that and build the drivetrain any way you want, same with wheels and tires.

I really wanted a pace car, take a look in my signature. I drive it all the time, it has all the same options, just not the same color or stripes... I'm totally happy and don't have to put up with friends goofing on me about their eyes after looking at the interior...

I like your pace car. I almost painted mine Orange or Blue W/Orange Interior

+1, I like your Camaro too and it's more tasteful IMO than a Pace Car, which I'll admit I've never been a strong fan of myself.

Thanks guys, a bit of trivia, it's an original hugger orange car with a white top and black deluxe interior...

another 2c's from the peanut gallery on this.... If the car has a numbers matching motor and trans then I'd say restore it to correct, sell it, and buy a real pace car. If however the car already has the wrong motor then I say it's fair game to make it a clone or what ever else you may want to do to it. IMO the money invested may or may not come back to you so just be aware of that.

When I bought mine, I purposely searched for a non-number matching car as that way I wouldn't regret modifying it. I sleep good at night till the Visa bill comes due :D

Thanks everyone for the various comments. It is a matching number car, that's why I kept the 327 and did not change to over to the 350. I know the Pace Car is not everyone's favorite and it sure sticks out and brings a lot of comments (both good and bad). I'll continue to think it over and chew on your comments and see how it all digests. I guess I really am a little nostalgic over my first Camaro (Pace car). Sort of a first love. I'm sure you all understand.

Thanks for the comment. Did not know I needed a new drive shaft? Much appreciated

Greg: everyone loves the Pace Car. What makes you think we dont like it?

Not everyone! :) I never did like the orange interior, but I wanted the same car with black deluxe, so I got my SS. :D

I love these "should I keep it original posts". I quickly read through and add my "Yes" to the list. But, only this time, I would say go with the pace car clone. You had a 69 pace car and it sounds like that is why you bought this car. Make it a pace car (keep all the rest of the parts) and enjoy it for the next 10 years... then it won't matter what it's worth.

If this is viewed as an investment, the answer is original. Not because of the resale value, but because of the additional money that would need to be invested on top of the already high dollar amount that you have in to it. In your original post, you say that you have all of the SS conversion stuff. The RS conversion parts are going to be most expensive. Just seems to me that you are going to be upside down investment wise if you go with the clone. I have no problem with a clone as long as it is represented as such. If you didn't make reference to investment then I would say build what you want.
Bottom line, you are going to have more into it as a clone with no real return on the money. You will still only get about plain jane money and you are limiting the resale to someone who likes the white and orange color combo thus shrinking the market for it. Just my 2 cents.

I say do it as a replica or go as far as it takes to make you happy.Dont worry about resale value unless you are doing it as an investment.You went into this project because you were longing for a time gone by and wanted to relive a little of your past.All the money you spend restoring the car back to original will be wasted if after you are done you sit in it and look out over a dashboard and hood that are the wrong color.I am restoring my high school hot rod after having cut it up into a race car almost 20 years ago.When done,it will have the same 3 spoke padded chrome steering wheel and glue on mirrored instrument cluster{which is a genuine Motion performance part}that made me want to buy the car back in the day,and I will be looking out over a stock flat hood with hood pins with little luggage locks on then just like back in 1989.The air freshener will be a vanilla one,and I might even throw a set of fuzzy seat covers over the freshly redone seats just so that when I sit in it I can feel like I am 18 again.When it is done,it wont be the latest in cutting edge trends,and I am sure there are a ton of things I could do to make it worth more money to somebody else,but if it isnt what I want it to be then it is worthless to me.Just something to think about.Good luck.

BTW,anybody remember what kind of hair spray is good for holding up a mullet?

His first post says that it is an investment as well.

Dump the TH400. Put in a TH350 instead -more efficient, same crossmember, etc.

My first Camaro was a 69' Convertible Pace Car. I sold it when I went to college (big dummy) and I have tried to find another one with no luck.

If you want a Z11, sell this car and buy one. I don't understand why you can't find one. You can buy one pretty much any time you want to. Money must not be the problem as you have spent plenty on this car. One out of every 4 or 5 69 convertibles is a Z11. They are very desireable, but a clone of one is always going haunt you.